Nissan Expanding U.S. CUV Portfolio with Qashqai Introduction and Rogue Hybrid

[Och]

I haven't had a chance to sample or review a Lada. But, simply based on what I've read about them, one of the very few things that impressed me coming out of the old Communist Russia was the way the old Ladas were built....for tough Siberian conditions and primitive roads, with no skimping on the amount of metal or durability put into them (somewhat like a less-expensive alternative to the vault-like Mercedes G-Wagon). Older Ladas (supposedly) often reached 300,000 miles.

Mike, don't take it as offense, but it seems to me that you often (unjustly) form your opinion about cars durability based on amount of metal and metal thickness. These old Ladas did have pretty thick sheet metal (and so did older cars coming out of old Capitalist USA ) but the quality of this metal is better described as "compressed rust" - and don't even get me started on assembly quality. These old Ladas, even moreso than their old American comrades, are flimsy buckets of bolts that rust, rattle, leak, and need constant replacement of parts. At least the old American cars were huge and heavy, and had huge powerful engines - and because of that they were relatively safe and were somewhat comfortable to drive. The old Ladas have no chance in an accident, and driving them at 60mph is downright the most dangerous thing I've ever done. I spent a lot of time in Russia, Ukraine and Belarus late last and earlier this year, and I had sampled a few of them, so I know. I also had a sample of newer Ladas (Granta, Priora), and they are basically at the level of 90ies/early 00's Daewoos. I haven't had a chance to try the newest Lada Kalina 2 or the upcoming Lada Vesta, but according to many these are pretty good, catching up to world class econocrapbucket standards - which could be in part due to Lada's merge with Renault-Nissan.

I did have a blast going offroad in this old camo painted Niva though.

 

[mmcartalk]

Mike, don't take it as offense, but it seems to me that you often (unjustly) form your opinion about cars durability based on amount of metal and metal thickness.

I understand where you are coming from. No Problem. I'm used to people disagreeing with me.

I know that some vehicles can be built like tanks and still have problems. Early British Land Rovers proved that.

These old Ladas did have pretty thick sheet metal (and so did older cars coming out of old Capitalist USA ) but the quality of this metal is better described as "compressed rust" - and don't even get me started on assembly quality. These old Ladas, even moreso than their old American comrades, are flimsy buckets of bolts that rust, rattle, leak, and need constant replacement of parts.

Didn't the Ladas lead pretty long lives, though? Older American cars were usually through around 100,000 miles or so, except for the durable Chrysler Slant six, small V8s, Chevy Stovebolt six, and a couple of taxi-engines. Or are you saying that Ladas rang up multiple-six-figures on their clocks because of constant parts-replacement?

I did have a blast going offroad in this old camo painted Niva though.

Yep....and in a country of Russia's size, there are plenty of places to do that.

 

[Och]

Didn't the Ladas lead pretty long lives, though? Older American cars were usually through around 100,000 miles or so, except for the durable Chrysler Slant six, small V8s, Chevy Stovebolt six, and a couple of taxi-engines. Or are you saying that Ladas rang up multiple-six-figures on their clocks because of constant parts-replacement?

Older American cars were often junked around 100K miles because people could actually afford to replace the old clunker with a new car. In USSR we didn't have such luxury, so people kept fixing that old clunker until it literally rusted apart. These cars were probably even less reliable than old American cars, but they were simple and relatively easy to repair and most people were actually pretty mechanically inclined, and therefore these clunkers accumulated lots of miles. But finding parts (and tools) wasn't always a simple task either, so people often got creative when it came to car repairs.

 

[Och]

I understand where you are coming from. No Problem. I'm used to people disagreeing with me.

I know that some vehicles can be built like tanks and still have problems. Early British Land Rovers proved that.

Problems are one thing, but I don't know if I'd use the term "built like a tank" when referring to a car that simply has body panels made of thick sheet metal. I understand thick sheet metal contribute to perceived durability and safety, but when it comes to actual crash tests sheet metal thickness alone contributes very little to the crash worthiness, especially if its a low grade metal alloy.

For instance, a modern Corolla or Civic may have perceivably flimsy sheet metal compared to an old Lada, but that flimsy metal doesn't "oil can" as much with age, body panels don't rattle apart and gaps stay within specs way longer, rust is basically a no issue and in a moderate accident doors wont fall off. So which one is built like a tank after all?

 

[Och]

(somewhat like a less-expensive alternative to the vault-like Mercedes G-Wagon).

If you ever get a chance to sample a G-wagon, open the hood and see how badly it twists.