Next-generation RWD Toyota Mirai Concept

Ian Schmidt

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I imagine this is partly because the fuel cell infrastructure is primarily in Japan, where the Toyota brand likely will have less of a negative impact on it since they already have different toyota stores for different "classes" of vehicles.
I agree Mirai is primarily intended for JDM, but they *did* launch Lexus in Japan too. The LS is (correctly) the showcase for self-driving. It would make perfect sense for the FCEV showcase to also be Lexus-branded, even if it wasn't necessarily the GS people here want.
 
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We have people complaining a lot because is a “Toyota” brand in (North America) and updates, I understand but let’s focus the difference between before and after design/features/tech/styling/performance, let’s focus the most the (high quality, products) that’s the important cases in the brand
 

CRSKTN

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I agree Mirai is primarily intended for JDM, but they *did* launch Lexus in Japan too. The LS is (correctly) the showcase for self-driving. It would make perfect sense for the FCEV showcase to also be Lexus-branded, even if it wasn't necessarily the GS people here want.
The LS should be the car that had the leading edge self driving and safety, while the GS should be the car with an alternative energy model with the latest and greatest they have on it (as an option).

So you can have the FC/Large luxury BEV GS with the safer, less cutting edge level of self driving tech on it, and keep the LS as the Fullsize leading edge luxury self driving showcase, with a less cutting edge/more "refined and appropriate" power train than the GS (still BEV, but maybe you roll out SSB or supercapacitor for performance or something on GS first).

Then as it matures, you roll out the incremental updates to each.

The more standard lineup can be spiced up with the spinoff downmarket tech this produces too.
 

Will1991

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@Ian Schmidt , during LS+ concept presentation it was stated it was a concept for autonomous driving technologies to be ready for the LS during 2020. It could be a bit delayed due to Corona Virus and a postponed Tokyo Olympics, but Lexus/Toyota usually manages to do as said.
 

spwolf

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Not to beat a dead horse - I'm over the demise of the GS - but for a business case, doesn't it make more sense to have an alternative fuel hybrid come from a premium brand? That was the whole point in Toyota's strategy shift with the Mirai - to make it more premium because you can't sell an econobox for $45k, no matter what.

Seems to me like deleting the Mirai, having the ES as Lexus' defacto midsize sedan and pivoting to make the GS a premium tech showcase (and being able to charge a premium) would have made the most sense. That would have thrown Lexus into the conversation they are currently absent from with the likes of Tesla and the Germans around alternative powertrains.
I think they were supposed to do that with LS FCV, not GS.

Mirai has to be Toyota just like Prius had to be Toyota... globally a much larger network for sales and support, cheaper price.
Lexus probably does not want to send mixes messages right now, as they are pretty deep into alternative power-trains with their hybrid lineup.
 

ssun30

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I think they were supposed to do that with LS FCV, not GS.

Mirai has to be Toyota just like Prius had to be Toyota... globally a much larger network for sales and support, cheaper price.
Lexus probably does not want to send mixes messages right now, as they are pretty deep into alternative power-trains with their hybrid lineup.
Counter point: a 150kW FC stack propelling a 2.400kg car isn't the best idea.

The weight of the LS is a hurdle to both FCV and EV implementation. That beast is just too damn heavy.
 

mikeavelli

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Maybe it's the copper/rose gold accents, but I see a lot of influence from the LF-1 Limitless in the Mirai interior:



How is this not a Lexus? What an observation...
 

mikeavelli

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It's literally the LS steering wheel. Why... Why would you pull this on your flagship customers...
Geeze.... wait till trolls get a hold of that... we were told years ago the brands would no longer do this..
 

CRSKTN

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It's the Highlander steering wheel. Stop panicking guys......
I don't think so. Check the angles on the buttons.


Secondary point: Maybe it shouldn't be difficult to distinguish between the steering wheel in the highlander and the one in the six figure Lexus luxury flagship?
 

Gecko

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I'd really like to see a different (and beautiful) steering wheel for Lexus' flagship products like LS, LX and LF-1. Roast me, but I don't think the UX and LS should have remotely the same wheel - it's the interior component you touch most, and that tactical feel goes a long way towards what makes a flagship vehicle.
 

Gecko

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But also... I agree with @F1 Silver Arrows - I think the Mirai has the same steering wheel as the new Highlander but with slightly different buttons. Look at the lower split design - it's the same for both Mirai and Highlander, and on the LS, that is solid with no cutout.
 

CRSKTN

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But also... I agree with @F1 Silver Arrows - I think the Mirai has the same steering wheel as the new Highlander but with slightly different buttons. Look at the lower split design - it's the same for both Mirai and Highlander, and on the LS, that is solid with no cutout.
It's a hack job of both, at least design wise. Re-using lines, etc.

3809

38103811

Button shape is from Lexus. Button labels and material quality are from Toyota.

This is a dumb thing for me to keep going on about, sorry, but it shouldn't even be close.

Actually looking again, the Mirai has the same sort of cluster "shroud" with the perpendicular "passthrough" effect you see on the LC/LS (with the driving mode stalk, etc) or the LF-1. In this case it's the giant slab of black plastic, but it's definitely clear this thing didn't start life as a toyota.

Can you imagine if there was a GS with this interior, better materials, and a V8TT in showrooms?
 

Will1991

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Seems fitting for this Mirai 😂

Real talk, if you have a hydrogen station somewhere near you, a RWD Toyota that started life as a premium Lexus product and then ended up somewhere in the middle is pretty much every ToMoCo fanboy's dream.
Considering worldwide sales of FCEV for 2019 was around 7500 units (Tesla makes around 6.000 Model 3's a week), and considering also that Hyundai (4.818) sold more than double than Toyota (2.407)... It must be some really special Toyota fan group for all of this trouble...

To give this decision some perspective (killing a new GS in favor of this Mirai), the economically inviable Lexus GS sold 6.604 units last year, only for the USA in a really old model... Go figure...
 

CRSKTN

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Considering worldwide sales of FCEV for 2019 was around 7500 units (Tesla makes around 6.000 Model 3's a week), and considering also that Hyundai (4.818) sold more than double than Toyota (2.407)... It must be some really special Toyota fan group for all of this trouble...

To give this decision some perspective (killing a new GS in favor of this Mirai), the economically inviable Lexus GS sold 6.604 units last year, only for the USA in a really old model... Go figure...
Like, this is what I don't understand. There's no way doing just the Mirai makes more financial sense than doing just the GS or both.
 

CRSKTN

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@CRSKTN , and getting this production to Takaoka II factory (see this: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26955/inside-toyotas-takaoka-2-line-the-most-flexible-line-in-the-world )would easily solve any fluctuations from producing more of one or the other.
I'm now building a canon in my head where Toyota, back with the original LS were so upset by the amount of attention they got (due to it being not humble, and very braggadocios to get so much positive attention. Un-japanese even.), that they have been intentionally knee capping themselves ever since.

Intentionally drawing out product life-cycles, re-using decade old engines and infotainment. Heck, even with the LFA they decided to take steps to the make the vehicle so expensive that people would write it off initially, only to be later appreciated for the masterpiece it was!

Then you have the humble, generous decision to base the RC on a convertible mid-section adding weight, and then not release the convertible because they decided to do the RX-L instead, in response to the dealer network in the states. Very thoughtful, though obviously they could not develop and release both, for they were not the world's largest auto group, that day. Fortunately, the RX-L was not to be long lived, so at least it was all for nothing.

Obviously the next thing to do is follow it up with a long line of highly-successful milque-toast mass market entry-level models from Automotive Giant Toyota's smaller-scale Luxury division Lexus.

Unfortunately, hubris took Lexus and they created the LC, regrettably attracting a great deal of positive attention once again. A successful luke-warm reception to the new LS after a successful decade long foot-dragging campaign had made them confident, even arrogant, in their ability to execute beautifully, exactly after they needed to, or not at all.

Luckily, they had also been releasing a series of not-for-market concepts, and multimillion dollar yachts and jet concepts, helping to muddy the waters on who exactly Lexus is for. Then all they had to do was masterfully lead a highly convincing campaign of high performance mules for the LS and LC over the span of years, creating bespoke twin turbo engines, suspension and aero systems to make sure they could accurately deceive photographers into thinking new vehicles like the LC F were coming. These amateur photographers didn't know who they were dealing with.

"We can release best-selling vehicles that nobody remembers! And there will be rumors! Good god will there be rumors! We have to get expectations as high as possible!" - Anonymous Lexus insider on audio tape.

Now, fortunately there is a tag team effort with parent company Toyota chipping in with landmark campaigns such as:
  1. Developing and proudly boasting about highly modular and world leading operations and factories that aren't actually modular
    1. Efficiency serves the purpose of building a financially healthy company, which can then act like a company on the verge of bankruptcy with regards to investment in Lexus. Thankfully, this additionally disappoints a wider market including financial analysts, broadening the company's reach.
  2. The inspired move to make the new Supra based on a BMW Z4.
  3. Akio Toyoda building 2 custom GRMN Toyota Centuries, and they'll never be available.
  4. Rebadging a Toyota minivan into a quarter million dollar Lexus minivan, ensuring that only marginal differences beyond materials are employed. Also definitely only available in 1 market, but internationally shouted about.
  5. Releasing a BEV, but only in China and Europe, and in their entry level model on a compromised platform
  6. Putting high-demand functionality like android auto and carplay into Toyota vehicles before Lexus models

Just a short intermission to remind you of the Aston Martin Cygnet, which you could only reasonably buy if you already had another Aston Martin (or waited forever). Toyota were sure not to offer an interesting Lexus model, instead sticking with the iQ for Toyota.

Now, with the LC Convertible successfully delayed again, after unfortunately fetching a huge price on auction for the first one, Lexus is poised to complete their magnum opus.

Started in the deep skunk works of TMC, they began a new project, dedicated to creating the ultimate letdown.
They called it: Project Aristo.

Over the next thirty years, TMC and Lexus would work together to lay the ground work for the Lexus GS. Decades of pulled punches and hard work later, they were on the cusp of it. They had culminated a strong base of fans, and a compelling vehicle that could grow into a number of niches as the lineup changed. They had even gone to the unbelievable lengths of releasing a high performance model, though being careful not to make it truly advantageous over competitors beyond incredible handling (mistakes were made).

Now, with the hype reaching maximum, fans on edge, and after a series of amazing concepts and being let down with the new LS, Lexus made preparations for their final move:

"We're going to kill the model. We are going to say it's not economically viable, or that there isn't a demand for it. Then we are going to butcher it into a hack job Toyota instead, largely keeping the design so that Lexus fans and auto enthusiasts alike don't miss what we did. It's going to be really, really blatant. Then we will say that because we underinvested, we underperformed, so we are reducing investment further in hopes of addressing this."

The charge was set, and everything was primed to go.

Akio Toyoda checks his inbox. His people had just sent him the ultimate decision on what the best final step would be. He had hoped they would live up to expectations, and not let him down.

"It's going to be the new Mirai."

A subtle smile crosses his face... Brilliant, a vehicle so unreasonable to own, that not even Toyota fans could enjoy it.

And with that Lexus Great Sadness will finally be achieved, and Akio Toyoda's ancestors will finally be free to rest for another 100 years after gorging on our suffering .

This time would make the 1929 loom worker harvest "sale to a british company to fund vehicle development" look like appetizers. The first known example of a "full transfer of all employees out of japan and to Britain, although unfortunately they will be untraceable."

They have been breaking ground with corporate landmarks for 90 years with projects like what they call "Aristo", or "The Aristocrats" internally.

/i am going *** crazy
 
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