More Rumors on the Lexus Twin-Turbo 4.0L V8 Engine

[Ian Schmidt]

I'm claiming these rumors are wishful thinking. I'm INFERRING that by them testing the V6 against competitor's V8, Lexus probably felt the V6 will stand in for a V8, which lends credence to the wishful thinking part.

Of course they did, because *the entire segment* is having a TTV6 stand in for a V8. The large majority of cars in this segment are the base engine. I'll ask again: do you actually drive something in this segment? And having a TTV6 that's within 6 HP of M-B's TTV8 tells me that yes, it stands in for a V8 quite spectacularly.

Meanwhile we're probably 6 months from ship date on the LS500 and Lexus has been caught testing LS mules with "unusually loud engines" so I think the V8 is coming right on time.

 

[bogglo]

There's nothing I have to say because Mercedes just put in a brand new V8 in the new S560 making northward of 460 HP. Even Porsche, known for their six cylinders, offers a V8 of all things in their panamera, today, and I'm sure tomorrow as well, that pushes 550 HP. So the point of your argument is what? You brought up those cars because of why?

If anything it goes to show you how Cadillac or Lincoln Lexus has become in regards to engine choices, especially for its top offering. In fact Lexus offers even less.

Thats a shame on mercedes if the decade old NA engine from lexus can put out a 471. but guess what if lexus put that same engine in the new LS I know people that would still complain about it

The point of the argument is that Lexus has a V6TT just like its competitors and just like you said the S560 has a new V8 so why can't the new LS have a new V8. Mind you, the new LS is not out on sale yet and it still has almost 6 months for it to go on sale. Its a different conversation if the car is out for sale already like those brands you mentioned. You only have a point when the car go on sale with just the V6TT until then the only valid argument you have is what the guy at the NAIAS said. But, remember when you put that argument out there He did not say there wont be a new V8 engine from Lexus.
The point he is making is that the current owners of the BASE LS460 that love the V8 power won't loose the power they get by upgrading to the new BASE LS matter of fact they would be getting a more powerful engine.

 

[Rhambler]

The original point I was making is that I honestly don't believe Lexus will introduce a V8.

All evidence suggests otherwise other than here say and rumors. I made my case, I won't regurgitate them here. Until they announce it, it doesn't exist.

Why does my ownership of such a car have anything to do with my comments? Why aren't you asking what Bogglo drives or anyone else? Does it matter?

Has it come down to what car you drive adds credence to your argument? Lol.

 

[CIF]

IMO this discussion has become really silly.

Is Lexus going to introduce a brand new V8 in the coming future? Yes, it's virtually a guarantee, and here is why. For future F vehicles, Lexus needs a next-generation engine, as the current 2UR engine won't cut it going forward. Also the current F engine has now become a standard engine in the LC. So the rumored LC F, what would it be using? The only choice is a new next-generation engine. Slapping a turbo or two onto the current 2UR is not a suitable option.

Aside from that, Lexus (and Toyota) large SUV and truck models are going to need a new V8 to stay competitive. The next-gen LX can't keep going with the dated 3UR engine. Nor can the coming next-gen Tundra or next-gen Sequoia. Not to mention the next-gen Land Cruiser. The new V35A from the new LS may not be a suitable engine for these models. So either for these models, or for future Lexus F vehicles, it's basically guaranteed that at least one or more new V8 designs will debut.

Also if a new V8 debuts only for the LS F, but not the regular LS, will that be a disappointment? In some sense yes, but it won't be the end of the world. It will still count as the LS having a V8, even if it's only on a low production LS F.

Furthermore, the new generation of Dynamic Force engines are very much tied into the TNGA platforms. Due to the Dynamic Force philosophy, I'm sure Toyota wants to replace all existing old engines with new designs as soon as they reasonably can.

So the only thing in question is how many new V8s will debut, and what Toyota and Lexus models will be getting the V8 engine(s).

 

[Rhambler]

I don't think so, I do believe that oddly-sized 3.5l will indeed be in the F, assuming Lexus even keeps producing Fs.

The days of V8s are over for Lexus. There's no better car to put it in then the flagship and they didn't.

A tuned-up 3.5l will likely makes it way into the Fs. Yes, not some wishful-thinking V8.

If Lexus had any sense, they would have developed and produced a 3.0 V6 and 4.0 liter V8, using 0.5 liters per cylinder. This would have kept the displacement under the 4.0 liter euro tax, while enabling them to share a lot of engineering time. There's a reason almost every manufacturer has gone this route. The 3.0 V6 is more or less the 4.0 V8 with two banks chopped off or conversely the V8 is the V6 with two banks added at 0.5 liters per cylinder.

The 3.5l ballooned up would push it over the European 4.0 cylinder displacement tax envelope and in this day and age, especially for a company like Toyota, who rarely develops engines outside of hybrids, that would be a huge engineering waste of development time.

That's why I do believe this 3.5l is the pinnacle. As pathetic as that sounds, it is, as Jeff Bracken so eloquently said: "developed with F1 technology with V8 power." What better engine to put in the F, ha...

Edit: or maybe this will be the F engine, which isn't outside the realm of possibility, but I do believe it could be tuned up to 450 HP, but anything larger would start to suffer from lag and other constraints from the old-fashioned turbo placement design Toyota chose. But typical of Toyota, it will be well underpowered versus its competitors, so that's why I do believe this route is the most plausible route because Toyota is always behind when it comes to these things versus the competition.

So keep dreaming and relish in Toyota's dumb move once again.

 

[Levi]

I too do not see a Lexus V8, simply because Lexus does not need any. Mercedes, BMW and VAG have 12 cylinders because well, they can (Maybach, Rolls Royce and Bentley). The V10 engine by VAG is an old engine (2 generations, based on an even older V8). Expect next R8 and Huracan replacement to get current 4.0l V8. Mercedes 4.0l V8 is based on their new generation modular engines and is basically tow I4. V6 is getting replaced by less costly and simpler I6 (I4 +2). BMW has their modular 1.5 I3, 2.0l I4 and 3.0l I6 engines. There were rumors of 4.0l V8 many years ago, but the new M5 will still get the engine based on the already 10 year old 4.4l V8 N63. New M3/M4 will continue with a newer I6, but no significant changes in their performance engines for the next 8 years. No new V8 from BMW, but rather hybridized I4 and I6 engines. Other car manufactures based have their 6 cylinder engines related to V8 rather than I4, thus the 90° angle rather than the 60° angle like Lexus. If Lexus made the V6 and V8 Dynamic Force engines related, they would both be 90°. If Lexus still brings a V8, than we can say they don't cheap out like the Germans and others. FCA 3.0l V6 makes 500 PS, and might come closer to 600 PS in the Ferrari Dino, if it ever comes.

The Land Cruiser's most sold engines that is not an I4 Diesel or V6 gasoline is the V8 Diesel. But this engine is no more sold in Western Europe due to regulations, and we never had any gasoline Land Cruiser 200. The V35A is enough to replace the 1UR, 2UR and 3UR. The replace the 1VD Toyota would have to build a new engine, if a V8 based on an I4. I think it would be cheaper but also simpler and better to utilize the BMW/Mercedes strategy, and simply stretch the 1GD to from 4 to 6 cylinders. It would make more than 300 PS and 700 Nm for the Land Cruiser. It would be a back to source engine, smooth, and "simple", especially as the next Land Cruiser should get IRS.

Although I like V8, I see no need for them. The Germans do not sell a lot of them, even if they earn quite a lot on them. Lexus is simply not as desired as anything German, however good it might be. More than that, V8 turbo does not sound better than the 2Ur, at that point, V6 turbo is fine, same performance, lighter, more compact.

Maybe the LC F will be a V6 TT+Hybrid.

 

[bogglo]

http://www.autonews.com/article/201.../camrys-engine-tech-will-spread-across-toyota

[“Dynamic Force is not solely aimed at the 2.5-liter engine,” Schlimme said. “We are working to bring it to other segments.” That includes trucks and utility vehicles, said Schlimme.

He said Dynamic Force for V-6 and V-8 engines are in “concept” form.]



That article was posted on the 1st of the month.

 

[Rhambler]

Yep, these rumors are just pipe dreams.

Sadly, I do believe this decision, and in fact their entire engine strategy, will do nothing but ensure their sedan sales stay well behind the others.

SUVs are ubiquitous and you have to ask yourself this: why do people buy sedans and coupes in this golden age of cheap gas and SUVs? I can only come to a few conclusions: performance, speed and driving characteristics, as those are the only few attributes that these cars actually have over SUVs. There's no utility in sedans anymore, and absolutely none in coupes.

Their halo sedans and coupes will be pathetic, Acura-like, but that's ok as that's the decision they made.

I want this rumor to be true more than anyone here, but it's not reality and everything they have done up to this point is contrary to a V8 or anything that actually says perforformance or sedan other than sedans for geriatrics.

 

[ssun30]

In an ideal world Lexus would do the following:
1) Debut 5LS with 3.0L V6TT/3.0L V6TT PHEV/4.0L V8TT
2) Follow up with 7ES and 2.0L I4T/2.0L I4T PHEV.
3) Show a hybridized V8 for future F vehicles.

Six different drivetrains are all Lexus needs (not counting UX/CT) and everybody will be happy. Cost will be low with only three ICEs and a standardised hybrid platform. Detune or uptune when differentiation is needed.

Instead we got LS introduced with a decade old GR, a decade old GR hybridized with an outdated battery (at least it's Li-ion now) and no practical EV range, and a 3.5 Dynamic Force that is in no-man's land. All three will suffer from unfavorable taxation in China, and people in US will be complaining about the lack of a V8. TMC has the best technology package but the execution is very sloppy. Maybe TMC doesn't have enough engineering resources, but that's the price they pay for procrastinating engine development until the previous generation is half a decade obsolete.

At least Lexus is not feeding people the "luxury four cylinder" BS (aka Volvo S90/BMW 7 hybrid) on 5LS. I wouldn't be surprised if Audi jumps on the BS bandwagon (seeing how Q7 chose I4 as the main engine) in the near future. Lexus and Mercedes might be the last preservers of decency.

 

[CIF]

http://www.autonews.com/article/201.../camrys-engine-tech-will-spread-across-toyota

[“Dynamic Force is not solely aimed at the 2.5-liter engine,” Schlimme said. “We are working to bring it to other segments.” That includes trucks and utility vehicles, said Schlimme.

He said Dynamic Force for V-6 and V-8 engines are in “concept” form.]



That article was posted on the 1st of the month.

This is pretty much the most direct evidence from Toyota that a new V8 or more will be coming in the future. If that's not evidence enough, I don't know what is.

I have a feeling that even if Toyota came out with a statement that officially said "Hello world, we are officially stating that brand new V8 engines are coming, including for the Lexus LS" then certain people would still doubt and criticize that new V8s were coming.

 

[Rhambler]

How many concept cars never make it to production? Engines are the same.

For them to say concept versus in development is a big difference in engineering terms.

 

[bogglo]

This is pretty much the most direct evidence from Toyota that a new V8 or more will be coming in the future. If that's not evidence enough, I don't know what is.

I have a feeling that even if Toyota came out with a statement that officially said "Hello world, we are officially stating that brand new V8 engines are coming, including for the Lexus LS" then certain people would still doubt and criticize that new V8s were coming.

You already know that is going to happen.

 

[bogglo]

How many concept cars never make it to production? Engines are the same.

For them to say concept versus in development is a big difference in engineering terms.

Hahahaha. I have to give it to you, once you believe in something only reality can knock you out of it. But let me ask you something. in your argument the only proof that could have backed up your argument was the statement that was made back in Jan NAIAS(which only confirmed what the new base engine would be) and you believed it. Now why can't you believe a new report that is more recent and specifically states that infact a V8 is been worked on?

your point about the term concept and development can go either way because I can develop a concept.

 

[Gecko]

@Rhambler, please exit this thread. Thank you.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

All three will suffer from unfavorable taxation in China, and people in US will be complaining about the lack of a V8. TMC has the best technology package but the execution is very sloppy.

We're roughly 6 months out from launch, so I'm not counting "lack of V8" until LS500s are actually at dealers. They could conceivably announce the V8 at NAIAS.

Secondly, on paper the TTV6 is a huge upgrade from the 1UR. Existing LS drivers certainly aren't gonna complain, and the added power should help against the Germans as well.

 

[Dreski]

Just give me a Diesel for my Toyota Trucks and Diesel/Hybrid for my Lexus and we're cake!

 

[Butterzai]

What i dream for LC -F .

V10 short stroke hi reving Engine with Hybrid System to give instant torque rather than whizzy turbo sound and laggy throttle response.

Fast car is good , but not as good as NA Engine Sound.

if v10 in LFA is too expensive , make a new engine , Dynamic force V10 or something

and then we got everything , a noise , fuel economy , throttle response , technology marvel , unique and special than other car

just like Laferrari compare to McLaren P1 , it 's sound wayyyyy better.

lexus is about experience , not about number or such a boring thing like 0-60 or something.

most M turbo cars nowsday is so boring , nothing compare to M5 E60 or GS F

 

[ssun30]

What i dream for LC -F .

V10 short stroke hi reving Engine with Hybrid System to give instant torque rather than whizzy turbo sound and laggy throttle response.

if v10 in LFA is too expensive , make a new engine , Dynamic force V10 or something

and then we got everything , a noise , fuel economy , throttle response , technology marvel , unique and special than other car

The whole concept of Dynamic Force revolves around a heavily undersquare design. So it will be long stroke and will not easily rev past 7000rpm unless the displacement is very very small (like, less than 4.0L). The problem with V10 is that V8 is much easier to engineer and manufacturer, while if you want to go up in complexity you might as well build a V12. Remember the LFA could have a V10 because the project had unlimited budget. But the LC-F engine will also be used by many other F cars as well as high end trucks/SUVs so it has to be low cost. A V10 is not going to happen.

The perfect solution to solve poor response on turbo is hybrid.

If Lexus had no cost limit to build a halo engine for LS/LC-F, I honestly hope it will be a GZ successor. The Toyota Century is RR of Japan, and a car that luxurious is incomplete without a V12.

 

[CIF]

The GZ engine though was never used by Lexus. It was exclusively reserved only for the Century. It's reportedly even smoother than the UZ V8 that the LS used for a long time.

If a next-generation Century is coming (and rumors are strong that one is) then I would expect any possible GZ successor to likely be exclusively reserved for the Century. The only way I can see a GZ successor engine going into a Lexus is if Lexus makes a "super LS" above the regular LS.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Hey all, I had to bump this thread, is there honestly anything new on the Twin-Turbo V8 front?

I am the biggest advocate for 6 cylinder engines. Ideally, it starts from there and up. But Lexus does need V8 cars, do we have any clue on what's coming up for the new V8 engines? Lexus is moving way too slowly, there are no excuses whatsoever.

Their marketing and PR strategy is honestly one of the worst in the planet, so much so, that it makes Mitsubishi look good.

Their idea with having staggered releases in terms of models, powertrains, company direction is hurting their customer base so bad. I am so shocked at how they are so stubborn to adapt and look on to others for inspiration.

Anyways, is there anyone who has heard of anything in regards to their V8 engines? Do let us know, we need to fill that TNGA engine/transmission model that they released earlier on.