Lincoln's Future Product Plans: Mustang-based Coupe, Explorer-based Crossover, Compact Sedan

Gecko

Administrator
Messages
5,147
Reactions
12,661
Amidst this story about expected growth in the automotive industry this year and next, I found this little tidbit about Lincoln:

Based on this forecast, Ford, General Motors, and FCA US will all generally maintain market share for the coming years. The report does make some future product predictions, though. The next Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra might come in 2019, which is earlier than expected. Also, Lincoln could get a Mustang-based coupe for 2017, a compact sedan for 2018 and an Explorer-based model in 2019, according to the Free Press.

I'm not so sure how a small sedan would fare, but the Mustang-based coupe and Explorer-based crossover could be very interesting. Both in addition to the new Continental.

I'm anxious to see where Lincoln stands in 5-10 years... could be a shocker, and quite frankly, more competition is always better!
 

mmcartalk

Expert
Messages
4,164
Reactions
2,677
I agree the prospect is interesting, but let's hope that Lincoln versions of these vehicles fare better then the former Mercury ones did. Of course, one difference is that, when Ford dumped Mercury, the Lincoln division still remained for its upmarket products. Ford isn't about to dump Lincoln, simply because that is the last place left for the upmarket vehicles to go. And the MKC and new MKZ prove that the days of Lincoln bringing out simply rebadged upmarket Fords (Aviator, MKX, Navigator, last-generation MKZ, etc...) are over.


(BTW, I have a very high opinion of the MKC, and, if I was in the market for an SUV, it would be either at the top of, or very close to the top of my list....if I could deal with the MYLincolnTouch)
 

IS-SV

Premium Member
Messages
1,886
Reactions
1,350
Styling, weak (Ford) dealership experience, reliability, resale value, and reassuring (even the very old ) customers that division will outlive them, lame naming scheme, they are all important things needing immediate attention. And too much badge engineering does not make a premium car business.



I'm from a Ford family and they have had plenty time to get it right. But who know what the Lincoln execs have in their garages to replace their Jags and Rovers (because that's what they drove prior to selling Jag and LR, not Lincolns).
 
Last edited:

mmcartalk

Expert
Messages
4,164
Reactions
2,677
Word from Lincoln now is that production of the new 2016 MKX has started, and that they will start to be shipped out soon. (I'm planning a full-review). I was quite impressed with the MKC last year, and it will be interesting to see how the new MKX compares. It's GOT to be better than the old MKX, which, IMO, was just about as unimpressive an SUV in the luxury/premium class as any I have seen. The last MKX was nothing but a cookie-cutter rebadge of the Ford Edge with a Smiley-Tooth grille and some different leather and wood-tone trim inside. It looked like a large-grilled appliance, and drove like one.........while SUVs aren't supposed to be sports cars, a librarian (LOL) would have found it dull. :D
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CIF

IS-SV

Premium Member
Messages
1,886
Reactions
1,350
Regarding Lincoln, well that put everybody to sleep, despite being very much improved SUV....:)

. So anybody know when they will actually fix the useless naming (Mxx alphabet soup) that premium car buyers don't seem to know or care to correlate to an actual vehicle. Although frequent Hertz rental customers probably got it down. I know there was talk of fixing...

. When can we expect production Continental?
 
  • Like
Reactions: CIF

mmcartalk

Expert
Messages
4,164
Reactions
2,677
Regarding Lincoln, well that put everybody to sleep, despite being very much improved SUV....:)

Well, the MKT, present-generation MKZ, Navigator, and last-generation MKX (especially the MKX) were enough, IMO, to put anybody to sleep (even a librarian LOL). But I found the new MKC last year (and the limited view I got of the new 2Gen MKX at the D.C. Auto Show this year) quite interesting.

So anybody know when they will actually fix the useless naming (Mxx alphabet soup) that premium car buyers don't seem to know or care to correlate to an actual vehicle. Although frequent Hertz rental customers probably got it down. I know there was talk of fixing...

Even as a non-renter, I have no trouble at all remembering which Lincoln is which, even with the alphabet-soup mix, though I can understand how some people would find it confusing....especially those who don't talk cars every day like we do on forums like this.

Having said that, though, I agree with you that coming up with a better naming system probably wouldn't be a bad idea. That also goes for Cadillac, Infiniti, and Acura.

When can we expect production Continental?

Can't give you anything specific, but what little could find on that question suggests sometime next calendar-year (as opposed to model-year), and perhaps in a slightly different format than the Continental Concept we saw displayed.

I just wish that Lincoln had put the last Continental Concept they did into production. I thought it was gorgeous....might have considered buying one.

2016-Lincoln-Continental-Concept.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CIF

IS-SV

Premium Member
Messages
1,886
Reactions
1,350
Even as a non-renter, I have no trouble at all remembering which Lincoln is which, even with the alphabet-soup mix, though I can understand how some people would find it confusing....especially those who don't talk cars every day like we do on forums like this.

Having said that, though, I agree with you that coming up with a better naming system probably wouldn't be a bad idea. That also goes for Cadillac, Infiniti, and Acura.


2016-Lincoln-Continental-Concept.jpg


My opinion is only Infiniti (Q-crap) and Lincoln (M-crap) have the naming problem, and the weakest sales stats to show for it too, btw. Acura and Caddy (despite its sales softness) naming is fine, and sales exceed Infiniti and Lincoln sales too.

Thanks for Continental info and pic, too cool and one of a kind! Not so much a drivers car, but I look forward to being driven and in backseat and cruising downtown SF in that beauty sooner than later. (We often grab rides in Limos and Towncars in SF (versus taxis), and the Continental would be welcomed in those kinds of fleets. )
 
Last edited:

mmcartalk

Expert
Messages
4,164
Reactions
2,677
My opinion is only Infiniti (Q-crap) and Lincoln (M-crap) have the naming problem, and the weakest sales stats to show for it too, btw. Acura and Caddy (despite its sales softness) naming is fine, and sales exceed Infiniti and Lincoln sales too.

I actually get a little more confused, sometimes, with Acura's designations than with Lincoln's.

Thanks for Continental info and pic, too cool and one of a kind! Not so much a drivers car, but I look forward to being driven and in backseat and cruising downtown SF in that beauty sooner than later.

So I take it, then, that you prefer the present Continental concept to its (potential) arch-rival Cadillac CT-6?

We had previous threads here on both cars (I don't know if you saw them or not.....you did not post in them). Here's your chance to post and get your own $.02 in about these cars if you want.

https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/...-with-continental-flagship-sedan-concept.355/

https://lexusenthusiast.com/forums/threads/official-thread-2016-cadillac-ct6-flagship-sedan.350/
 

IS-SV

Premium Member
Messages
1,886
Reactions
1,350
I actually get a little more confused, sometimes, with Acura's designations than with Lincoln's.



So I take it, then, that you prefer the present Continental concept to its (potential) arch-rival Cadillac CT-6?

We had previous threads here on both cars (I don't know if you saw them or not.....you did not post in them). Here's your chance to post and get your own $.02 in about these cars if you want.

/

Yes, the Acura T-whatever cars are forgettable and not just because of the naming, agreed naming isn't helping.

Continental gets my vote 100 %. Especially over Caddy artsyfartsyscience outdated, Escalade-derived, non-aero styling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CIF

CIF

Premium Member
Messages
1,704
Reactions
1,863
Acura, Infiniti, Caddy, Lincoln...they all have mediocre sales to varying degrees, and they also all have somewhat confusing naming schemes to different degrees.

IMHO, I never understood the fascination many of the lower-tier brands have with 3 character alphanumeric soup naming schemes. The German Big 3 have easy to remember 1-2 character naming schemes (although Benz is strangely moving some models to 3 character names, inconsistent with the rest of the lineup). Porsche has easy to remember names, and Lexus also has easy to remember names.

Also I agree 100% mmcartalk on that previous Continental concept. I'll never understand why they released that concept roughly 10 years ago, did nothing, then recently released another Continental concept...and are now teasing that the recent concept may make it to production.
 

mmcartalk

Expert
Messages
4,164
Reactions
2,677
Acura, Infiniti, Caddy, Lincoln...they all have mediocre sales to varying degrees, and they also all have somewhat confusing naming schemes to different degrees.

The reason most often given for mediocre Caddy and Lincoln sales (though I don't necessarily agree with that reasoning), is not their alphabet-soup names, but that their traditionally loyal buyers (the World War II and early Baby-Boomer generations) are all dying off or simply don't drive any more. First of all, many of them DO keep driving (sometimes, unfortunately, past the time they can safely do so, as some accidents attest to). Second, although some, of course, are in fact dying off, life expectancy is now at an all-time high because of better medical care and other factors. Third, people that age often have a lot of money to spend (yes, even on new cars) simply from the fact that they have been working and saving for a good 40-50 years since their college days and/or when they first began to work. But, no matter what the vehicle-names, they tend to be unimpressed with the smaller, firmer-riding sedans that Caddy and Lincoln are now marketing compared to past years.

Also I agree 100% mmcartalk on that previous Continental concept. I'll never understand why they released that concept roughly 10 years ago, did nothing, then recently released another Continental concept...and are now teasing that the recent concept may make it to production.

My strong guess (though this is simply a guess, not necessarily fact), is that ten years ago, the Town Car was solidly in production, and had won a large and loyal following among seniors, limo-firms, and the executive-car business. Today, of course, the Town Car is gone (as is also the Cadillac DeVille/DTS), and there is a more urgent need for both companies to come out with a suitable replacement flagship. The existing Lincoln MKS and Cadillac XTS, IMO, simply don't cut it as flagships. They do offer more efficient drivetrains, slightly better handling, and the AWD options that their predecessors lacked (and the XTS has a richer interior than the DTS). But, as I see it, other than that, they simply lack the refinement and comfort that some Cadillac and Lincoln buyers are looking for. The new Continental and CT-6 may (hopefully) address that problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CIF

CIF

Premium Member
Messages
1,704
Reactions
1,863
Agreed mmcartalk, your points are well taken.

However to me that doesn't fully explain Ford's incompetence here ;).

When the previous Continental concept debuted roughly 10 years ago, at that time I'm sure that Ford must have known the Town Car was due to be discontinued soon. So the Continental concept should have been a tease for a Town Car replacement, but it wasn't. GM was equally incompetent in not providing a proper DTS replacement.
 

mmcartalk

Expert
Messages
4,164
Reactions
2,677
Agreed mmcartalk, your points are well taken.

However to me that doesn't fully explain Ford's incompetence here ;).

When the previous Continental concept debuted roughly 10 years ago, at that time I'm sure that Ford must have known the Town Car was due to be discontinued soon. So the Continental concept should have been a tease for a Town Car replacement, but it wasn't. GM was equally incompetent in not providing a proper DTS replacement.


Well, like I told IS-SV above, I myself wish they had put the last Continental concept into production. It was a gorgeous car, and I might have actually gotten one, though I usually don't spend that much on cars.

The Cadillac XTS and Lincoln MKS, I agree, because of their less-comfortable rides and general refinement level, are not truly proper replacements for the flagships they supersede. But, at the same time, IMO, we should not overlook what they SHOULD be given some credit for.....better handling, more modern and efficient power trains, 6-speed automatics instead of dated 4-speeds, AWD options for bad weather that their predecessors lacked, and, in the case of the XTS, much better interior trim and a (hopefully) more reliable engine than the old Northstar V8 that burned oil almost like a rotary.

CIF said:
I'm sure that Ford must have known the Town Car was due to be discontinued soon.

Possibly, but at the time, there was fierce resistance to discontinuing their whole full-size, V8, body-on-frame car line, from police departments who just loved the Crown Vic, taxi companies who also loved the Crown Vic, seniors who liked both the Town Car and Mercury Grand Marquis, and from limo and executive-car firms who depended on the Town Car. Mercury's demise, of course, settled the Grand Marquis question, but the police opposition to the Crown Vic's loss remained. The cops I've talked to basically like the new Dodge Chargers they've gotten, but not the Ford Taurus replacements for the Crown Vic.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CIF

IS-SV

Premium Member
Messages
1,886
Reactions
1,350
Ford is now selling plenty of Ford Explorers to police agencies that like the durability for frequent excursions over curbs and crap, plus the room, comfort and driver seating height too. The last BOF cars really feel pretty crude and unrefined when compared directly with best unibody lux large cars in 2015, I've driven in plenty of CrownVic and Towncars, they are not especially nice and many are a POS. Not that it matters, for those that need BOF some great pickups are available and they are designed and suited for the task. Regarding cab companies, most are going to hybrids for obvious operating cost reasons and have no interest in gas-guzzling ugly old Fords. Fleet sales are low margin sales, so tailoring products for rapidly dwindling market (including customers soon to be too old to drive) is the last thing a major automaker should be doing.
End of that road and not really on topic anyway. (Although new Continental would certainly be desirable for a towncar operator and its customers.:))

Regarding:
"SHOULD be given some credit for.....better handling, more modern and efficient power trains, 6-speed automatics instead of dated 4-speeds, AWD options for bad weather that their predecessors lacked, and, in the case of the XTS, much better interior trim and a (hopefully) more reliable engine than the old Northstar V8 that burned oil almost like a rotary."

These are all good common attributes/advances and none make any of these cars worth more than mainstream cars (such as loaded Ford Fusion for example). All this me-too stuff after finally catching up with other regular automakers with premium car prices followed by discounting and rapid depreciation will keep sophisticated buyers away.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CIF

mmcartalk

Expert
Messages
4,164
Reactions
2,677
Styling, weak (Ford) dealership experience, reliability, resale value, and reassuring (even the very old ) customers that division will outlive them, lame naming scheme, they are all important things needing immediate attention. And too much badge engineering does not make a premium car business.

I agree with you on some of these points, but, with the MKC and the upcoming 2Gen MKX, Lincoln seems to be getting out of the badge-engineering business.

(Since you say you sometimes find the Lincoln alphabet-soup confusing, the MKC is the all-new compact SUV introduced last year, and the 1Gen MKX is last year's Ho-Hum appliance-grade rebadged Ford Edge, which will be radically changed with the new 2Gen MKX expected in a couple of months).
 
  • Like
Reactions: CIF

IS-SV

Premium Member
Messages
1,886
Reactions
1,350
I agree with you on some of these points, but, with the MKC and the upcoming 2Gen MKX, Lincoln seems to be getting out of the badge-engineering business.

(Since you say you sometimes find the Lincoln alphabet-soup confusing, the MKC is the all-new compact SUV introduced last year, and the 1Gen MKX is last year's Ho-Hum appliance-grade rebadged Ford Edge, which will be radically changed with the new 2Gen MKX expected in a couple of months).

Hardly out of the badge engineering business so far, and only hoping to get better at it with MKC and MKX. Badge engineering done well isn't necessarily a problem.

It's kind of sad that you have to explain lame Lincoln naming convention to actual premium car buyers, but the reality is most buyers that shop this category of car just don't care and don't know (sales data is proof of that). And it's kind of sad that every Lincoln get's explained as a "rebadged Ford blah, blah." Many don't even know where a Lincoln dealership is, since many have closed. I suspect many here don't know and don't care either, based on the lack of responses. Or maybe apathy is better word. In contrast for example I have no problem remembering differences of Caddy CTS, ATS, DTS, STS even though they are not favorites of mine. I know only one person that actually owns a Lincoln and he's, well you know (I assume he's still alive)...

Maybe they should just quickly drop majority of the crap product line and bring the Continental front and center, there's a thought!
 
  • Like
Reactions: CIF

mmcartalk

Expert
Messages
4,164
Reactions
2,677
Hardly out of the badge engineering business so far, and only hoping to get better at it with MKC and MKX. Badge engineering done well isn't necessarily a problem.

On that one, at least with the MKC, I'll have to disagree. The MKC is only very loosely based on the Escape platform. It is not a rebadged Escape at all....not even close. There are many notable differences, both on the surface and under the skin. With the new MKX, I can't say for sure until I really see it (I only got some cursory examinations at the D.C. auto show). But, from all indications from what I've read on it, indications are that it will not be a rebadged Edge like the last one was, either.



It's kind of sad that you have to explain lame Lincoln naming convention to actual premium car buyers, but the reality is most buyers that shop this category of car just don't care and don't know (sales data is proof of that).

With Lincolns, I don't think it's so much the alphabet-names that turns off sales as much as the vehicles themselves did (before the nice MKC). Until the MKC came along, they were pretty much what you described...rebadged Fords.



And it's kind of sad that every Lincoln get's explained as a "rebadged Ford blah, blah."

DEFINITELY not the case with the MKC.

Many don't even know where a Lincoln dealership is, since many have closed.

Yes, that is a significant problem. Since Mercury folded, a number of Lincoln dealerships now operate out of Ford shops....other Ford shops don't hande the Lincoln brand at all. It's not a good situation from the dealer point of view.

Maybe they should just quickly drop majority of the crap product line and bring the Continental front and center, there's a thought!

No maybe about it.....I agree with you there. The good news is the MKC is already on the market, and the old impressive MKX will soon be out the door for what promises to be a far better one. And, yes, if they actually do the Continental, so much the better. :);)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CIF

IS-SV

Premium Member
Messages
1,886
Reactions
1,350
On that one, at least with the MKC, I'll have to disagree. The MKC is only very loosely based on the Escape platform. It is not a rebadged Escape at all....not even close. There are many notable differences, both on the surface and under the skin. With the new MKX, I can't say for sure until I really see it (I only got some cursory examinations at the D.C. auto show). But, from all indications from what I've read on it, indications are that it will not be a rebadged Edge like the last one was, either.


With Lincolns, I don't think it's so much the alphabet-names that turns off sales as much as the vehicles themselves did (before the nice MKC). Until the MKC came along, they were pretty much what you described...rebadged Fords.

Which is exactly what I meant, it's still badge engineering to some degree which isn't necessarily bad if done well. Lexus has proven that with some models/variations loosely based on existing Toyota products (RAV4, Camry, Prius, 4Runner), top notch designs and engineering make the difference. Versus crap badge engineering, example current MKS/Taurus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CIF