internalaudit

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As much as I would like to purchase the Audi Q4 or the BMW i4, I think I will stick with Toyota's/Lexus. As long as the interior design is nice (from the photos even the one in the UX is already pretty nicely laid out), I'm sure the handling and ride will be better than any of our current ICEVs. :)
 

internalaudit

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I know Toyota is more conservative so maybe cover 80% of Tesla vehicles' performance with 1/5 of the repairs needed over the life of the vehicle? :) If even the Leaf and Bolt have better handling over similar ICEVs, then maybe Toyota can best some of the Germans who are falling behind Tesla anyway.

Sandy Munro views Tesla as a clear leader in EV technology (aside from the Model 3 body-in-white, which was rather poor from the engineering standpoint). Tesla especially leads the way in battery technology and all the electronics, power electronics, as well as thermal management system.

 

Will1991

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Hopefully they are targeting something around 62kWh (usable, around 70kWh gross), with similar efficiency as the SR TM3 would be a killer, even with lower performance (around 7sec 0-60 and 155km/h top speed, similar to the Mirai).
But the most important thing is correct pricing, if they think they’re able to sell something slower and with less range to similarly priced Tesla’s... Maybe they should think again (see Nissan Leaf+, Jaguar iPace...) Tesla’s have an amazing supercharging network second to none with a perfect integration with their sat-nav which no one else have.

Even with a TM3 SR+ I can easily get into the car and ‘book’ a road trip throw Europe and this is an amazing commodity.
 

internalaudit

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Hopefully Lexus will be priced cheaper than German luxury counterparts (in North America) lol and Toyota's at par with VW.

I think Lexus is slightly pricier in the EU though which explains why fewer of them can be seen when I was there to visit (Germany, Austria, Slovenia and Croatia) or maybe it's true that Germans/Austrians do get discounts when buying German cars.
 

ssun30

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The battery gap will converge in the next two or three years as all manufacturers hit the 300Wh/kg and 1kW/kg barrier.

Funny how the Germans are still at a meager 180Wh/kg in 2019 when Tesla already got 270Wh/kg in 2017. That's a 50% gap. I would never consider an EQC, e-Tron, or an I-Pace because their technology is just embarrassing. 2425kg for a compact-size SUV is laughable.
 
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It's not even Tesla's battery tech, to be completely honest. It's Panasonic's. Panasonic also works with Toyota. Doing a little research and some reading, you'll see Toyota is waiting until their battery tech is perfect. They have big time work going into Li-Air batteries and Solid State batteries. Toyota is huge, and they're not going to just rest on their laurels while EV's are passing by without them. I think in the long run Hydrogen will also be up there as the world starts to learn more of the costs (environmental also) associated with making batteries big enough to power these vehicles.
 

Will1991

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The battery gap will converge in the next two or three years as all manufacturers hit the 300Wh/kg and 1kW/kg barrier.

Funny how the Germans are still at a meager 180Wh/kg in 2019 when Tesla already got 270Wh/kg in 2017. That's a 50% gap. I would never consider an EQC, e-Tron, or an I-Pace because their technology is just embarrassing. 2425kg for a compact-size SUV is laughable.
Worst of all is their efficiency... An electric Smart For Two Cabrio needs more energy than a Model 3 (and even the Model S I believe)…
 

internalaudit

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Maybe Toyota will surprise us next year. Until then, I'm not even going BEV shopping since right now there's just too many compromises in the sub $60k CAD market. The LR AWD Tesla Model 3 is about $65k but after that NextGen Germany fiasco, I would be unwilling to be a guinea pig even with the seven day return window.

Imec doubles energy density of its solid-state Li-metal batteries to 400 Wh/liter
 

ssun30

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Maybe Toyota will surprise us next year. Until then, I'm not even going BEV shopping since right now there's just too many compromises in the sub $60k CAD market. The LR AWD Tesla Model 3 is about $65k but after that NextGen Germany fiasco, I would be unwilling to be a guinea pig even with the seven day return window.

Imec doubles energy density of its solid-state Li-metal batteries to 400 Wh/liter
If these people just developed a SSB at those specs, I would say they are a couple of years behind the curve.
 

internalaudit

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If these people just developed a SSB at those specs, I would say they are a couple of years behind the curve.
When do you think SSB will hit the BEV market, 2021 at the latest?

Which Chinese battery makers have started commercializing SSB?
 

Ian Schmidt

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Funny how the Germans are still at a meager 180Wh/kg in 2019 when Tesla already got 270Wh/kg in 2017. That's a 50% gap
Some of that's a real gap, and some of that's that Tesla is willing to push the batteries very hard even though it shortens the battery life and increases the risk of fires.
 

internalaudit

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Some of that's a real gap, and some of that's that Tesla is willing to push the batteries very hard even though it shortens the battery life and increases the risk of fires.
Tesla's OTA will slowly release capacity from the buffer so that capacity will appear not being compromised after all those fast charging and abuse. :)
 
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ssun30

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The new Mercedes A250e has a 150kg pack with 15.8kWh and 75kW, making it the most energy-dense PHV pack currently offered on the market. That's 105Wh/kg compared to 75Wh/kg at pack level compared to the Prius Prime's battery. I wouldn't say there's a gap though since this pack is three years newer and the power density is quite disappointing at only 0.5kW/kg compared to 0.6kW/kg for the Prime. You see there is a tradeoff between energy density and power density here.

Interestingly, the Panasonic batteries used in the ChDM Corolla/Levin PHV are 18650 cells like those in the Tesla Model S, with 140Wh/kg cell-level energy density. It's one of the better PHV cells out there.

CATL (with which Toyota recently signed a supply deal) is rapidly closing the density gap with the most recent 2017 BEV cells pushing 250Wh/kg and a 2019 pre-production sample getting 300Wh/kg. Considering they only switched from LFP to NMC chemistry in 2017 this is surprisingly fast progress.
 

Will1991

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Knowing the ChDM PHV's are getting Panasonic/Tesla's 18650 cells does brings my hopes up as they're clearly ahead of the pack.

Do you have any information regarding yours CHR EV?
 

internalaudit

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ssun30

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Knowing the ChDM PHV's are getting Panasonic/Tesla's 18650 cells does brings my hopes up as they're clearly ahead of the pack.

Do you have any information regarding yours CHR EV?
18650 cells are technically worse than prismatic because of lower packaging efficiency (more material and space on the casing). The reason Tesla chose them is ease of manufacturing. They switched to 2170 to catch up on packaging. In the long term most manufacturers are investing in prismatic cells, especially in preparation for solid state.
 
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Will1991

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Must just be a concept hatch if the UX will be the first Lexus BEV
Please make it at least something around a Lexus CT, not another small crossover crap similar to a Renault Captur... If this new wave of cars (Corolla, Camry, ES) proved something is that a properly built car still sells very well and can take some buyers from a SUV!
At least October is right around the corner!
 

internalaudit

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I believe the CT is too tight, just like the Corolla hatchback. I'm only 168 cm (below average for any race lol, maybe I'm alien) and if I were to sit behind myself, I'm left with less than two inches of knee room.

But I'll still take one since the rest of the household are female and shorter than me lol.
 
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