internalaudit

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That's honestly the first complaint I've ever heard about Lexus seats. Fuel economy I'll agree with.



If I understand correctly, the beef is more that lower-priced Toyotas actually have better materials in some instances.
5:09 into the video.

 

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Gecko

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"we really want our customers to feel our cars are not boring to drive" at the same time "no F cars because they are expensive to make, by the way no GS for you even though our parent company is already making one"
"we want our hybrids to have an image of both efficient and powerful". RAV4 has a 302hp PHV version while NX still uses a hybrid system from 2010.
"we really get this message that GX buyers care about offroading". The GX is a decade old and has no offroad-oriented version.
"we are very very committed to an electrified future". There is still no Lexus PHV or FCV. Only three BEVs are planned in five years.

Here's an easy advice for Sawa-san: be consistent with what you say and what you do. Then be committed to a strategy and go for it. Design products proactively instead of reactively.

If they even had half the commitment and consistency of Hyundai Genesis they would be in a much better position around the globe.
/end thread.
 

mediumhot

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RC-F seats could be the best thing about that car. They look better than anything on the market right now and they do their job. First thing I fell in love with when I sat inside RC-F were the seats.
 

mikeavelli

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Yeah I love the RC F/GS F seats... could they have more adjustments? Yes, 8 or 10 way is so 1995. But mahn they fit nicely without it.

As for everyone's comments, as a long time owner and enthusiast its a bit sad to read. What makes me more sad is I cannot quote you and argue. You all are making good points.

What I've gathered this whole new Electric push/strategy just changed everything. But even without that I'm a bit confused. Because you all are making sense and then the November report comes out and it was the best November ever (mind you surely incentives helped).

Then I look at Toyota which is literally having an onslaught right now and it reminds me way to much of Honda/Acura.

I have faith in the Lexus future but I do admit right now its a bit tough.
 

internalaudit

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I love Alex on Autos but his score rating for seats mainly scores the numbers of ways of adjustment, he doesn't really look at how 'comfortable' the seat is subjectively.
True but of course the more ways you can adjust the seat, the more comfortable it can get, correct?
 
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With all this, Lexus also announced it would distance themselves from Toyota. Reading this, in my opinion, was one of the best things that could have happened to Lexus. Lexus fans could stop relying on a Toyota redesign to initiate a Lexus redesign. At the time, I thought it meant Lexus would start making much more fun to drive cars and not a sporty-looking RX that drives like a Highlander. And I thought we could FINALLY stop hearing "that Lexus is just a luxury Camry." Boy, did that change when Toyota slapped a freaking spindle grille on it.

Mercedes GLA look really nice (I mean it's not the best looking Benz but still decent) and it's getting a redesign soon, and our brand new UX is really bland. I am sorry to anyone who owns the UX. I am not trying to bash it, but the concept was so nice, and it's so boring looking. The interior as well is so blah. Mercedes and Audi have these futuristic interiors and we are following the BMW trend of kind of keeping the same looking interiors with the new generation. BUT then we move to the stylings of the LC, LS, and hey, I'll even throw Mr. bread and butter ES in there. They are gorgeous to look at (well, I do wish the ES interior didn't look like the last gen RX's). But this is what I mean: you can have a different range of vehicles, yes. You can have your "lower" end ones: UX, CT; your "higher" end ones: LS, LC; but you don't have to make your lower end ones look like lower end vehicles. Audi and Mercedes have these "lower" end models, but they are still striking in design. Personally, I love the new Audi A1 - it's a cheaper Audi, but it still looks like it comes from the same family as the A7. If I knew nothing about cars and you told me the UX and LC were from the same brand, I would not believe you.

Overall, I really think Lexus is still a top competitor to these German brands that always have seemed to dominate, but I think in a way, they are falling behind. Something needs to be changed asap. I do not want to see the GS go. Then the RC. Then the IS. Then the GX. Then the LS. These are great models. They just need some attention. Please, Lexus! Don't become Infiniti. Their sales were down almost 50% (I think they sold like 4k models in September or something), and they had to be pulled from Australia.
Feel free to disagree! I know I have strong opinions here!
I completely agree. I think it was over a decade ago when Lexus introduce the L-Finesse design and I remember that Lexus said they would differentiate Lexus from Toyota, from their design language to how Lexus performs. Well, Lexus did that for a while and now they are back to where they started. Lexus looks and feels a lot like a Toyota product. A lot of the Lexus design has leaked over to Toyota. I complained that the new Camry's exterior looks too much like the IS/GS and that the fit and finish on the Camry is a little above the Lexus.

Technology is where Lexus falls behind. For pete sakes, the Corolla has a nice, 7" LED screen in the middle of the gauge. I know that the IS/GS is a bit dated but if Lexus can manage to update the nav gen to the latest and greatest, then they should be able to add a 10"-12" screen in their instrument panels. Lexus redesign the dash in the LX and LS. They should be able to do that for the IS/GS. I sat in the BMW, MB, and Audi and I'm amazed by the amount of tech they cram in their cars. I work in IT, so this is a joy for me to play around in.

I have a UX, no offense taken. It's a forgettable car and I'm glad I got it as a lease vehicle. It rides no better than the CH-R. I would rather get one of their platform-mate, like the Corolla hatchback, and call it a day. It was cool when I got it, but it's a huge letdown. The UX lacks all the features that a tech person wants. No neat display, tech that is hard to use, no usable space for anything. I compared it with the GLA and boy, it makes the UX looks like a Toyota. I was so disappointed in the UX that I went to get a GS450h 7 months later. I still have the UX though. Come on Lexus! Even a base model Toyota has more nowaday.

Lexus can make great concept vehicles. I was really interested in the CT until they watered it down and stuck a Prius powertrain. Out of all the hybrid vehicles that Toyota has, they put a powerless 1.8L engine.

I don't see Lexus going the way of Infiniti or even Acura but if they keep treading this way, I can see Lexus losing their long-time clients and maybe even potential clients. What would make Lexus stand out is to innovate in all fields. Powertrain, infotainment, luxury, and performance. They need to completely separate from Toyota. They need to keep both companies from borrowing their trademark designs.
 
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Rob Grieveson

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Reply to DDas - I agree with a lot that you say in your post. In South Africa due to the small volume of Lexus sold (slowly improving) Lexus showrooms are now thrown in with Toyota but that is not all bad as no car is more popular or more highly thought of in Africa than a Toyota.
So there are benefits a huge number of folk did not know where Lexus hailed from and now it is linked firmly to truly loved brand in Africa.
I also find the delays in updates and refreshes frustrating the German luxury brands reign supreme here in terms of sales in their price sector.
The IS was launched here as a new model in 2006 and redesigned in 2013 we are now entering 2020 and still selling a car designed way back then. The top of the range the Limitless was showcased a year ago may be more but still not in production. The CT designed and launched out here in 2011 approx now withdrawn and replaced with the UX which is problematic for a number of reasons not least of which it is not competitively large enough - the RAV is cheaper and takes a lot more stuff plus it is cheaper.
However in Africa the Toyota brand name is very highly regarded and way ahead of your Nissan etc in terms of respect , re sale in fact in any way you want to look at it so i am not against Toyota being added to the name in fact marketed as a Toyota Lexus could possibly achieve interesting sales results and open the door to range of vehicles from the size of the Yaris to the Land Cruiser. Lets face it a Lexus is a luxury Toyota and that is no bad thing. Look forward to some positive new model news soon.
 

mikeavelli

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I love Alex on Autos but his score rating for seats mainly scores the numbers of ways of adjustment, he doesn't really look at how 'comfortable' the seat is subjectively.
He’s nothing more than a Honda/aCuRa fanboy
 

Joe

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That's honestly the first complaint I've ever heard about Lexus seats.
Me too. The quality of comfort and support you get in ALL recent Lexus seats is without any doubt amongst the best on the market. Recognized as well by a lot of automotive journalists here in Europe. Personally, I put these seats on top ranking, next to Volvo.
 

Joe

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I will remain a Lexus enthusiast, but I have to admit that one of the reasons that I am not working for Lexus anymore is the lack of go-to-market-speed, especially looking at the European market. Total sales volume is OK, but could be much more if there had been more consistency. On top of that, I had a chance to see most of the product planning until 2024 and I was very disappointed.
It’s such a pity, because in premium segments there is a lot to be done to gain market share from the ever boring German brands... especially if you have something to say on electrification. In fact, Lexus could have been the only valuable competitor to Tesla in Europe, but now it is a long way behind Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Volvo... At Toyota Motors Corporation, they simply had to decide to slightly switch the right engineering resources to pick the PHEV and BEV drivetrains from the shelf and adapt it to Lexus models to be in front of the transition movement on the car market. Instead, their Japanese Kaizen mentality creates a slow dinosaur missing all obvious opportunities.

A bit sad, really.

And then I look at the magnificent LC coupe and convertible... *in love*
 

Gecko

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On top of that, I had a chance to see most of the product planning until 2024 and I was very disappointed.
I have heard from other internal folks that the product pipeline is "pretty sparse" but things are projected to get better in 3-4 years after that. I'm just not sure Lexus has that much time to tread water... they've already been doing it for a decade.
 
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I have heard from other internal folks that the product pipeline is "pretty sparse" but things are projected to get better in 3-4 years after that. I'm just not sure Lexus has that much time to tread water... they've already been doing it for a decade.
What gets better? What products will come? More aspirational cars? F cars? EV's? Performance hybrids? More BOF cars? Their definition of better probably means sales.

Can you elaborate please?
 

Gecko

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What gets better? What products will come? More aspirational cars? F cars? EV's? Performance hybrids? More BOF cars? Their definition of better probably means sales.

Can you elaborate please?
I don't think Lexus has given their employees much clarity - just the same type of stale hype marketing they give us when they debut cars with 15 year old engines 🙃
 
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