Lexus Plus Negotiation-Free Pricing at USA Dealerships

Would you buy a car from a Lexus Plus dealer where there is no negotiating?

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nabbun

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I like this idea. Most people aren't going into a dealer looking forward to "dealing" with the salesperson and finance person. Now, if only Lexus could change the luxury vehicle game by adopting direct sales to customers like Tesla. Now THAT would be amazing.
 

CIF

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I like this idea. Most people aren't going into a dealer looking forward to "dealing" with the salesperson and finance person. Now, if only Lexus could change the luxury vehicle game by adopting direct sales to customers like Tesla. Now THAT would be amazing.

A very notable goal that would be, but an almost insurmountable one. I agree that most people don't look forward to the entire dealership process. As it stands though, dealerships are highly intertwined into the auto industry. It would require a radical industry change in order to get away from the current situation.
 

IS-SV

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^ Agreed, and what competitive advantage would BMW, Mercedes, Audi possibly gain if they continued with their own business as usual sales approach...
 
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Bulldog 1

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I buy my cars from the number one volume Lexus dealer in the country and I deal exclusively with a VIP manager. I never have to deal with anyone out on the sales floor.
I've purchased six vehicles in the last seven years and all of them have been deeply discounted.
My two current 2015's were purchased two weeks apart during the month of May and the F Sport was thousands behind MSRP.
A one price take it or leave it CarMax experience will unquestionably end my relationship with Lexus.
I doubt anyone reads this from Lexus, but if they make that mistake, they will lose their loyal base customers like my family who have purchased eight Lexus vehicles in the past nine years.
I've worked in this industry and from both sides of the equation, no luxury automobile manufacturer would survive the implementation of such a strategy over the long term.
 

corradoMR2

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Given that the price of the vehicle is only one part of the total transaction, I doubt if this will eliminate the for customers need to compare total costs among several dealers. Many, if not most buyers have a vehicle to trade in and most dealers have various add-on charges and those will obviously vary, especially trade-in allowances. Toyota Canada tried fixed prices in Ontario a few years ago but ran afoul of price-fixing laws and had to abandon it.
I'm skeptical since indeed Toyota Canada tried this about 10-15 years ago and it failed because of competition laws, but as a Toyota buyer, IMO, I feel it's also because the next dealer still always tried to one-up the other by throwing in an accessory, free service, etc outside of the fixed pricing the dealers were supposed to adhere to.

In short, there was always a form of bargaining even with the fixed "Access Toyota" pricing as it's human nature to try to get more for less, so even if the laws did not take effect, I feel the program would have flopped anyway.
 

mmcartalk

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^ Agreed, and what competitive advantage would BMW, Mercedes, Audi possibly gain if they continued with their own business as usual sales approach...


With the German upmarket brands, though, isn't their "business as usual" more geared to leasing than buying?
 

IS-SV

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With the German upmarket brands, though, isn't their "business as usual" more geared to leasing than buying?

Not exclusively leasing. But yes it's easier to see what I mentioned with straight purchases.

Sure a big percentage of BMW, Mercedes, Audi deals are leases with BMW probably leading with that stat. But since you brought up the good question about leasing it goes along with what I said about giving those German brands a "competitive advantage" via the ability to discount and subsidize leases via cap reductions (just another form of discounting to move metal). So the leasing scenario does apply to what I mentioned in post#23.

Note: When some if use term like "sales approach", usually sales and leases are included. Once the sale or lease transaction is completed title transfers and dealers inventory is decremented, or in other words dealer itself doesn't own the sold or leased car anymore.
 
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CIF

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I'm skeptical since indeed Toyota Canada tried this about 10-15 years ago and it failed because of competition laws, but as a Toyota buyer, IMO, I feel it's also because the next dealer still always tried to one-up the other by throwing in an accessory, free service, etc outside of the fixed pricing the dealers were supposed to adhere to.

In short, there was always a form of bargaining even with the fixed "Access Toyota" pricing as it's human nature to try to get more for less, so even if the laws did not take effect, I feel the program would have flopped anyway.

Another good point.
 

Mohammed Taha

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We already have this here in the UAE. Probably because the dealer here is a Toyota and Lexus monopoly. However, something like this, in a country with privately owned dealerships, will eventually lead to price fixing.

I am generally against dealerships selling cars. I think cars should be sold by the manufacturer. If I'm not happy with my car, do you think the dealership cares? Not as much as Lexus would. There is far too much disconnect between car manufacturers and their customers. What needs to happen is we need the manufacturers on the ground interacting with the customers.
 

mmcartalk

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We already have this here in the UAE. Probably because the dealer here is a Toyota and Lexus monopoly. However, something like this, in a country with privately owned dealerships, will eventually lead to price fixing.

Possibly, but price-fixing, as we know it, is usually a collusion by several different manufacturers or companies to agree on set-prices for a shared commodity or product, not necessarily just one manufacturer, company, or dealership. What you are describing (if applicable) is more among the lines of a monopoly by one dealership or auto manufacturer...which is more of an anti-trust case. And that, of course, would depend on the local laws in the UAE and how they operate.

I am generally against dealerships selling cars. I think cars should be sold by the manufacturer. If I'm not happy with my car, do you think the dealership cares? Not as much as Lexus would. There is far too much disconnect between car manufacturers and their customers. What needs to happen is we need the manufacturers on the ground interacting with the customers.

Again, I don't know about the laws there in the UAE, but, in the U.S., some jurisdictions don't allow auto manufacturers to set up and operate their own company-owned retail outlets. Tesla, for example, operates that way in some states (company-owned outlets)....but is having legal trouble in others and facing some lawsuits over the issue.
 
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So where are they going to try this experiment first? The Southern California market? I don't think it would fly with certain Lexus buying demographics, especially those in which the cultural norm is to "haggle".
 
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Mohammed Taha

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Possibly, but price-fixing, as we know it, is usually a collusion by several different manufacturers or companies to agree on set-prices for a shared commodity or product, not necessarily just one manufacturer, company, or dealership.

That's exactly what I meant. I'm not talking about the UAE.

If they adopt haggle free pricing, they can all decide to set the price of the IS-F, for example, to $44,155 as stated on Lexus's website, with no negotiations. Is there anything you can do about it?

Again, I don't know about the laws there in the UAE, but, in the U.S., some jurisdictions don't allow auto manufacturers to set up and operate their own company-owned retail outlets. Tesla, for example, operates that way in some states (company-owned outlets)....but is having legal trouble in others and facing some lawsuits over the issue.

And that's why Tesla is far more successful and has penetrated the market the way it did.
 

mmcartalk

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That's exactly what I meant. I'm not talking about the UAE.

If they adopt haggle free pricing, they can all decide to set the price of the IS-F, for example, to $44,155 as stated on Lexus's website, with no negotiations. Is there anything you can do about it?

Do you mean the F-Sport? A full IS-F model will likely run a lot more than that....probably low 60s.

And that's why Tesla is far more successful and has penetrated the market the way it did.

Perhaps, but a more likely factor is the Tesla's long-range batteries. They are one reason why Teslas cost so much....even with company-owned stores.
 
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...schools-lexus-in-art-of-no-haggle-sales-pitch
The Car Dealer Who Schooled Lexus in Art of the No-Haggle Sale

Buying a Toyota from Brian McCafferty is about as close as you can get to point-and-click shopping on a car lot. He posts his bottom-line price and less than an hour later you’re inhaling that new-car smell.

No-haggle pricing is an unusual strategy in an industry that typically shuns such transparency. By offering fixed prices, McCafferty has turned his Toyota store near Phoenix into an exemplar of customer loyalty, market share gains and profits. Lexus U.S. brand chief Jeff Bracken noticed, invited McCafferty to speak about no-haggle selling at a corporate retreat and then decided to bring the pricing model to Toyota’s luxury brand.

“He’s flourishing in a very competitive market,” Bracken said. “So we know it’s worked.”

Not that Lexus is plunging in. Saturn once had a no-haggling policy, but that didn’t save the brand from withering away inside a cash-strapped, pre-bankruptcy General Motors Co. And while luxury auto sales are booming, Lexus is locked in a dogfight with Mercedes, BMW and Audi. So it plans to start testing fixed pricing at 12 stores next year and see how it goes before asking other dealerships if they’d like to try it.

McCafferty’s unusual approach -- only one other U.S. Toyota dealer offers fixed pricing -- is essentially an acknowledgment that the Web has changed how people shop. When we visit stores now, we expect more. Luxury dealers have adapted by ladling on service. BMW is adding Apple-style genius shopping assistants. Ditto for Audi, which also has expanded service hours. Some Mercedes dealers even have nail salons.

Top Frustration

All that hard-earned goodwill can be erased if a customer feels they’re being overcharged. About 44 percent of consumers don’t want to negotiate over the price of a car, according to a March study from Autotrader. Haggling is their top frustration, yet most car buyers think it’s the only way to get a fair price, so 56 percent are committed to duking it out.

Before opening his Toyota store near Phoenix, McCafferty interviewed about 300 customers to get a sense of their likes and dislikes. Many told him that it took too long finalize a sale and that they didn’t like not knowing how much a car costs, opaqueness they saw as deception.

“They said, ‘I ask you how much a car costs and I don’t get an answer,’” McCafferty said. “The customer perceives that as dishonesty. That was a profound statement and realization. I saw that the sales process was needlessly complicated, in the eyes of the consumer as well as the dealership staff.”

‘Simple Premise’

He started selling Toyotas at fixed prices in Arizona about a decade ago, and did the same after opening a second store five years ago in Oakland, California. Prices are transparent, for customers and for his competition, something dealers have traditionally avoided. Yes, sometimes rival dealers check his website and undercut him, but McCafferty says customers are typically willing to spend more if they can cut out the haggling and get out the door in less than an hour.

“We are just giving the customer what they want,” McCafferty said. “It’s a very simple premise. Why should it be any harder than that?”

Last year, Toyota invited McCafferty to address dealers and executives at a retreat in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. He gave a 90-minute talk to the group, which was exploring the possibility of a no-haggle sales model. The reaction was mixed.

“It ranged from guys saying, ‘This is what I’ve been looking for’ to others getting vocally displeased with me would be a kind way to say it,” McCafferty said.

After much discussion, the 12 dealers there unanimously backed the strategy, according to Lexus chief Bracken.

Persuading all of Lexus’s 236 U.S. dealers to sign on is probably the key to success, says Stu Lasser. He ran a successful Saturn store in New Jersey in the 1990s and decided to try no-haggle pricing at his Infiniti store, too. It didn’t work so well because other dealers undercut him on price.

Lexus “might be able to pull it off,” Lasser said, “if they’re all in sync and they’re dedicated.”
 

mmcartalk

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I bumped up this almost year-old thread to give some feedback on that policy, but the article only describes one specific dealership.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ricing-sends-some-buyers-fleeing-as-most-stay

In the seven weeks since his Lexus of Omaha dealership switched to no-haggle pricing, salesman Jim Endebrock has had one customer walk out.

“It was a little disappointing because I had sold him eight cars before this,’’ Endebrock said in an interview at the dealership. “But he considers himself a shrewd negotiator, and he thought he should get something better.’’

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’Upfront Pricing’ on a Lexus

Source: Lexus
Still, Endebrock has managed to sell 40 cars since June 1. Those customers, he says, have been delighted with the no-haggle approach, which means the dealership puts its best offer for new and used vehicles on the window sticker and then refuses to entertain counteroffers. Toyota Motor Corp.’s Lexus division is the first luxury brand to launch a factory-sanctioned pilot program for expanding the idea nationwide, according to Erin Kerrigan, founder of Kerrigan Advisors in Irvine, California.


One of Endebrock’s happy customers is Pat Conroy, who returned to the dealership for a service appointment on Wednesday. Conroy, 79, is the retired purchasing director for Valmont Industries Inc., an Omaha company that makes mobile-phone towers and irrigation equipment. He says he hates haggling with car salesmen.

“I’d rather come in and be relaxed, and know what the price is, and not go away wondering if I should have offered $500 less,’’ Conroy said.

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Since the earliest days of the U.S. auto industry, customers like Conroy have had no way of knowing the actual price of a car except to make a ridiculously low offer, and then wait for the dealer to respond.

All that changed about 15 years ago, when the internet began offering buyers reams of data -- not just about the dealer’s costs for delivering each car, but also the prices people were paying for similar models across town and around the country. Among other things, that newfound transparency compressed the profit margins dealers can make on new vehicles to just over 3 percent from 5 percent, said Kerrigan.


As profits in the old system evaporate, more and more individual dealers are now successfully turning to no-haggle pricing, she said, including in big cities where their competitors still use the old-fashioned model.

“They’re not by any stretch the norm, but I do think these no-haggle, one-price policies are becoming a trend,’’ Kerrigan said.


Manpower Shift

So far, 11 of the 236 U.S. Lexus dealerships have adopted the no-haggle plan, said Matt Kaleba, the brand’s national marketing manager. In the future, additional dealerships will be able to opt in and receive staff training and consulting services from Lexus.

To encourage recalcitrant dealers, the company’s Lexus Plus program comes with an additional set of incentives. As it helps dealers move toward no-haggle pricing, Lexus also helps them reorganize their operations to offer customers additional amenities, such as a salesman trained to also handle their financing paperwork, and a single point-of-contact representative for all their service requests.

In effect, Lexus Plus shifts manpower away from the finance departments that once presided over price negotiations and served as a major profit center for the dealerships, and moves it into customer service.

The Lexus of Omaha dealership is on the west side of town, a few hundred yards from the famous Boys Town home for at-risk children. Rebuilt in 2014, its main showroom features two-story glass windows on three sides, and a portion of the back wall covered with various shades of climbing ivy.

The dealership is part of Baxter Auto, a family-owned conglomerate of 22 outlets in Omaha and Lincoln, Nebraska; Kansas City, Missouri; and Colorado Springs, Colorado. Those dealerships offer 19 brands, including Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Ford and Chrysler.



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Mickey Anderson, who owns Baxter with his sister Angie, said he needed four years of preparation to switch to no-haggle pricing. One reason: Salesmen now receive a flat fee for each car sold rather than having their compensation vary depending on the outcome of talks with each customer. Many dealerships, he said, don’t want to embark on that kind of painstaking reorganization at a time when sales and profits are booming.



Cutting Time

The deals that Lexus of Omaha offers today, he said, are basically the same as those customers could achieve after haggling their way through the old system. But he said he hopes they can complete the transaction in less than two hours, or half the time needed for the traditional approach.

During the first full sales month with the no-haggle plan, Anderson sold 1,200 vehicles at Lexus of Omaha, up 9 percent from last year’s monthly pace. He said he hopes to be selling 1,500 a month by 2018.

“I joined the company in 1990,” Anderson said, “and I knew it was wrong then that wives had to bring in their husbands because, ‘Oh, by the way, if you’re not a man you may not be able to get the best deal that could be made.’’’
 

mikeavelli

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In Japan the price is the price, dealerships don't even have inventory, you order your car, pay the price and get your car. I can see opportunity for some dealerships to go this route as many people prefer a seamless process.

What is interesting to me is if Lexus dealerships that don't haggle post a price of $45,000 for a say ES and that is the best price; how will competing dealerships respond? Naturally with a lower price.

It's time soon to get rid of our GS F-SPort as the wife wants to get back to a SUV and in talking to a few various brands/dealerships its a #)(()$#)( headache that I don't enjoy. I wish I could just order what I want, pay the price and that is that.
 

mmcartalk

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In Japan the price it the price, dealerships don't even have inventory, you order your car, pay the price and get your car. I can see opportunity for some dealerships to go this route as many people prefer a seamless process.

That's the way Saturn shops used to operate in the 1990s, back when they were a huge customer success and before the company started going downhill by imitating the rest of GM. You could (and often did) order a car EXACTLY the way you wanted it. In fact, I did it myself....an SL-2. ;)

It's time soon to get rid of our GS F-SPort as the wife wants to get back to a SUV and in talking to a few various brands/dealerships its a #)(()$#)( headache that I don't enjoy. I wish I could just order what I want, pay the price and that is that.

I assume she wants to stay with another Lexus product?
 
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Ian Schmidt

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I wish I could just order what I want, pay the price and that is that.

Same. I've never bought/leased a car that had the exact options set I wanted. In particular, when they used to offer that awesome dark blue on the LS I wanted one bad but it was essentially impossible to get one with an options package I could live with. I only ever saw one that color in real life - Lexus of Orlando had it on display, but it was missing the Levinson stereo or something so I had to say no.
 
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