Lexus LC 500 Gets Performance Boost Ahead of 2017 Release

[Lexus Cohen]

Same here Hopefully, we'll get a chance at the Miami Auto Show in 2 weeks, although I haven't heard whether or not it'll even be there... ray:

If she's coming I'll definitely be there.

 

[meth.ix]

Anyone think the same upgrade will come to the RC F refresh.

 

[Faisal Sheikh]

Anyone think the same upgrade will come to the RC F refresh.

Yes, that is what I was thinking. This updated engine will be in the 2017 RCF as well. It is a mild increase, but still something is better than nothing. Wish it had been rounded up to a nice number like 480 HP or so with 398 ft-lbs of torque sounds quite compelling.

 

[RichardS]

I have read this misconception many times. Europe does not get better Octane fuel. Octane rating is measured differently in Europe. For example, Octane 100 in Europe, is equivalent to Octane 95 in Canada or US. Europe uses RON Octane rating system while the US/Canada markets use an average of RON and MON rating systems (RON + MON/2).

Here is a conversion table to see a direct comparison

http://www.pencilgeek.org/2009/05/octane-rating-conversions.html

Thanks for the explaination, didn't know this, in that case the difference in performance numbers is still a mystery to me.

 

[RichardS]

Folks, why all the surprise and disappointment about weight and implied performance? The LC 500 was built to compete in the luxury GT-class against the likes of the Maserati GT, S-Class Coupe, and BMW 6-series all of which are in the 4000+ lb range yet with lower base engine power output figures. And let's not forget the rumored twin-Turbo V8 600 hp LC F coming...

Since Lexus proudly posts pictures like this on the web, showing all the lightweight components used in the LC500. To me that implies that (since the car is only slightly bigger than the RC-F) it would be a bit lighter than it's brother. Therefore I was hoping for a curb weight of ~3800 lbs. That would also give it an advantage as a drivers car over the competition like the 650i.

 

[Gecko]

Since Lexus proudly posts pictures like this on the web, showing all the lightweight components used in the LC500. To me that implies that (since the car is only slightly bigger than the RC-F) it would be a bit lighter than it's brother. Therefore I was hoping for a curb weight of ~3800 lbs. That would also give it an advantage as a drivers car over the competition like the 650i.

I agree, and am disappointed in the weight of this car. We read a lot of press about GA-L being Lexus' new, state-of-the-art RWD architecture and I quite frankly think that many of us were just expecting some weight savings.

For this car to weigh as much as the Frankenstein RC F is rather odd, since we know RC F uses the heavy IS C tub. I too was thinking that ~3,800lbs is where we'd end up, and really that's what the car should weigh IMO.

BMW's next gen carbon core platform is going to shed a lot of weight from the 6 series.

 

[krew]

And I don't think this qualifies as a performance boost .. It's like a 1% lift lol

Hey! I'll have you know this story reached 1k likes on Facebook purely on the strength of that title. :sweat:

From there, the numbers rise past the 2-ton mark, with The Detroit Bureau‘s Paul Eisenstein stating that “the target is around 4100 pounds, though it may actually come in ‘closer to 4200’”. Automotive News‘ David Undercoffler says that “the automaker is aiming for 4200 pounds”, while Motor Trend‘s Ron Kiino cites the manufacturer as the source for a 4300 lb curb weight.

Ok well thanks for the heads up. I expected it to become lighter than the overweight RC-F. Guess I'm going to be disappointed again. Nothing they have produced so far comes close to the LFA. Which is a shame, they should do more with that investment in technology and knowledge.

Considering the access that Motor Trend had with the LC prototypes, I'd trust their numbers the most -- though it wouldn't surprise me to see Lexus engineers get the weight down to 4,200 pounds much like this incremental horsepower improvement.

I can understand the disappointment, but the info posted by @mikeavelli shows that all numbers are in line with competitors. Seriously though, the entire interior is covered in leather. Lexus was not aiming for low weight.

 

[krew]

For this car to weigh as much as the Frankenstein RC F is rather odd, since we know RC F uses the heavy IS C tub. I too was thinking that ~3,800lbs is where we'd end up, and really that's what the car should weigh IMO.

I get the point, but prefer the opposite angle -- there's no legitimate reason the RC F weighs so much.

 

[IS-SV]

I get the point, but prefer the opposite angle -- there's no legitimate reason the RC F weighs so much.

Agreed, newer mainstream premium car designs today/2016 often spec lighter materials resulting in lower curb weights (just one example - new A4). RC350 at 3900 pounds suffers with weight prob too, but unlike the RC F its performance is subpar.

 

[IS-SV]

Thanks for the explaination, didn't know this, in that case the difference in performance numbers is still a mystery to me.

I can see where confusion happens sometimes with octane ratings.

Also some automakers have higher compression ratios for same engine (Europe vs US), requiring higher octane gas. An example of that is Mazda's Skyactiv 2.0L that uses regular in US and a premium grade in Europe.

 

[RichardS]

Hey! I'll have you know this story reached 1k likes on Facebook purely on the strength of that title. :sweat:





Considering the access that Motor Trend had with the LC prototypes, I'd trust their numbers the most -- though it wouldn't surprise me to see Lexus engineers get the weight down to 4,200 pounds much like this incremental horsepower improvement.

I can understand the disappointment, but the info posted by @mikeavelli shows that all numbers are in line with competitors. Seriously though, the entire interior is covered in leather. Lexus was not aiming for low weight.

I See your point, but don't forget that besides the Mercedes S-Class coupe all other competitors in that list are like 5 years old already and are likely to be replaced soon. Especially the BMW 6 and Maserati GC. Like Gecko mentioned already, the new 6 will probably benefit from the carbon core tech that debuted in the new 7-series. That among other weight saving features helped the 7 series to lose around 125kg (excuse me I'm from europe and usually don't use the imperial system). With that knowledge I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere next year a new 6 series will debut which might go sub-4000 lbs. My point is, when launched the LC500 might be more or less on par with it's competitors, but within 1 or 2 years the specs will be out-dated again. And the LC500 doesn't look like it should be outdated. It should be as state of the art as the looks. To do that, it should be 1 or 2 steps ahead of the competition to ensure when their new models are launched it will still be a competitive car.

 

[mikeavelli]

If the LC is sharing its platform with the LS, that explains some of the weight. The smaller cars always suffer when sharing platforms with larger cars.

 

[krew]

My point is, when launched the LC500 might be more or less on par with it's competitors, but within 1 or 2 years the specs will be out-dated again. And the LC500 doesn't look like it should be outdated. It should be as state of the art as the looks. To do that, it should be 1 or 2 steps ahead of the competition to ensure when their new models are launched it will still be a competitive car.

Have to admit, I thought this immediately after posting -- Lexus should be moving the needle and not just running with the pack. Mixed metaphor, but the point stands.

At the same time, I can temper my disappointment with the knowledge we're half a year away from seeing the production car.

 

[mikeavelli]

Have to admit, I thought this immediately after posting -- Lexus should be moving the needle and not just running with the pack. Mixed metaphor, but the point stands.

At the same time, I can temper my disappointment with the knowledge we're half a year away from seeing the production car.

Clearly with most of us here being severe die-hards it catches us off guard to wonder such things. As Lexus has moved more to design it seems engines have been super stagnant. Honestly the I-4 turbo wasn't a great sign, it wasn't really better in any category expect perceived reliability than the competition. I'm no engineer so maybe things are where they are for fossil fuels but then I see Nissan potentially debuting the variable compression and I have to wonder what is going on.

The fact of the matter is this amazing looking car is debuting an engine that dates back to 2008. I know 80% was new for the RC F but the needle barely moved. Also with heavier cars, that means on par or less performance.

I can't help but think what if the LC not just debuted a drop dead gorgeous body but an all new engine? Even the LC 500h has a trick new transmission but its the same 3.5 V-6 from B.C 53.

All these products are under Akio at this point so I'm a bit confused with what the hell takes so long with new engines when it seems the Germans debut a new engine every week in comparison.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

Perhaps the 4 hp and 9 lb/ft of torque boost versus the initial RC F and GS F-like specs is a hopeful sign that LC 500 will come out on the lighter end of the curb weight estimates. Or it may just be a side benefit of the 2 extra speeds in the LC 500 automatic versus the RC F and GS F. Bear in mind that something I've written a number of times in my articles: unlike the German luxury 3, Cadillac and Jaguar, whose sportiest models are aiming for maximum horsepower and let fuel economy fall where it may, EPA Gas Guzzler Tax or no, Lexus seemingly has this corporate edict that none of their cars can get worse than the 16 mpg city, 23 mpg highway and 18 mpg combined numbers on the U.S. EPA fuel economy cycle that it takes to avoid paying the Gas Guzzler Tax. Thankfully, the LFA was an exception, and an LC F and LS F, if ever built, probably would be, too. I'm sure that the latest 2UR-GSE 5-liter V8 can easily exceed 500 hp without compromising its reliability, but then its fuel economy would fall into EPA Gas Guzzler territory in a car of the LC 500's weight.

 

[mikeavelli]

The thing is too you can't tune the engine. With the Germans you can, very easily. They hit 500hp with a simple ECU remap. Surely most people that buy the LC won't care but some of us do. It's a selling point. Let people that don't give a **** about MPG tune their engine!

I've been driving the Vossen S8 tuned to 650hp (previously the 4.0 V-8 turbo made 520hp stock now it's 610 with no price increase lol) and it gets BETTER MPG than my 400hp LS 460 (thank you fujitsubo Exhaut). That's a big problem. I look at my car like "huh" lol.

Basically if one gets a LC we are stuck with the "add intake/exhaust" equation which is very 1990s.

With a couple option packages this is a 100k car. Bragging counts. People do mod at this level.

 

[Joaquin Ruhi]

I've been driving the Vossen S8 tuned to 650hp (previously the 4.0 V-8 turbo made 520hp stock now it's 610 with no price increase lol) and it gets BETTER MPG than my 400hp LS 460 (thank you fujitsubo Exhaut). That's a big problem. I look at my car like "huh" lol.

I totally believe it, and am not particularly surprised. The answer lies in two words: cylinder deactivation. Audis that are more powerful than their Lexus rivals yet manage to avoid the EPA Gas Guzzler tax use this as a tool in their arsenal.

I once asked Lexus' Paul Williamsen why Lexus didn't make use of cylinder deactivation (running a V8 on only 4 cylinders at highway cruising speeds) and he said that the dual Atkinson/Otto cycle capabilities of version 2 of the 2UR-GSE 5-liter V8 provides pretty much the same fuel economy benefits while being lighter, smoother and less complex than a cylinder deactivation system.

Yet, I can't help but wonder if it has to be an either/or proposition. Can using both dual cycle and cylinder deactivation together in the same engine produce further gains in both horsepower and fuel economy? Audi is currently using both technologies separately (dual Atkinson/Otto cycle capability debuted in the 5th-gen [B9] 2017 Audi A4's 2-liter 4-cylinder turbo engine), and I'm betting on them to combine the 2 well before Lexus does...

 

[IS-SV]

Yes, interesting. Audi's cylinder deactivation plus a significantly smaller displacement V8 (with twin turbos for power on demand) makes a fuel economy difference.

 

[mikeavelli]

Yes, interesting. Audi's cylinder deactivation plus a significantly smaller displacement V8 (with twin turbos for power on demand) makes a fuel economy difference.

I'm averaging 19 MPG with 650hp.. My LS is around 14 MPG with 250hp less... When on the highway if I'm cruising the S8 can over over 30 MPG easy and it doesn't feel abnormal or anything. It's just impressive.

 

[corradoMR2]

I agree, and am disappointed in the weight of this car. We read a lot of press about GA-L being Lexus' new, state-of-the-art RWD architecture and I quite frankly think that many of us were just expecting some weight savings.

For this car to weigh as much as the Frankenstein RC F is rather odd, since we know RC F uses the heavy IS C tub. I too was thinking that ~3,800lbs is where we'd end up, and really that's what the car should weigh IMO.

BMW's next gen carbon core platform is going to shed a lot of weight from the 6 series.

I see it differently. The fact that it weighs "so much" despite the new platform tells me one thing. This car is built with substance that must be experienced once you own the car - things like door slam feel and sound, weight of switches, robustness of the dash, thickness of the leather, and sound deadening/materials, all collectively are what makes Lexus superior to the equivalent lighter-weight Germans. I know the LC will not disappoint here.

Yes, there's more of a case for the RC F to shed some weight but the solidity felt and the refinement of materials over an M3 is noticeable. The Bimmer feels cheaper...

In short for a 100K+ GT-class luxury car the LC is in, I want noticeable substance and refinement over incremental performance gains and I believe the majority of buyers in this class would agree.