Lexus GS Among the Best in 2017 J.D. Power Initial Quality Study, While Overall Brand Struggles

Discussion in 'Lexus Lounge' started by krew, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. krew
    krew Administrator
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  2. Dan
    Dan
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    I love Lexus vehicles, but the infotainment system is truly bad... hard to use the mouse while drive my and the technology is far behind competitors. And now that I've driven a car that offers Apple CarPlay I would not even consider a car that does not offer it... and that's probably an even more important feature for Millennials who want to control things their way. If Lexus overhauls the infotainment properly it will be back on the top of the quality list.
     
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  3. Andyl
    Andyl Founding Member
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    Thanks Krew for bringing up the 2017 J.D. Power Initial Quality Study. I also came across another article the other day (probably C&D or R&T) focusing on Kia and Genesis are now #1 and #2 of the rank.

    As Lexus Enthusiast is the main Lexus enthusiast web site on the Internet, I hope Lexus and Toyota finally listen to their customers.

    Lexus should wake up to realize nowadays, customers expect the same level of experience that they constantly get from their mobile phones. . Infotainment system is truly bad from today's standard. It is something to do with the resistance to allow CarPlay and Android Auto because Toyota is also out of the top 10 in the ranking.

    I have a chance recently to use the CarPlay on a Chevrolet and while there is some small glitch, it works pretty flawlessly. No more stupid maps that you find from Lexus. Not to mention North American Lexus vehicles couldn't display non-english characters when playing music via Bluetooth.
     
  4. Levi
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    Not a fan of where all this is going. First I dislike tech in cars (with exception of passive safety). I don't want an infotainment system in any car. Get that screen out of my interior. I prefer low tech functional and reliable cars over gimmick. Gimmick is not comfort or safety.
     
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  5. GSCT
    GSCT Founding Member
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    I hope so too! Even though the survey measures satisfaction rather than reliability, I think Lexus' infotainment graphics and user interface suck, even though I like the mouse controller. It's embarrassing when a Chevrolet is better. Toyota/Lexus insistence on going their own way is now biting them.
     
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  6. PeterF
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    YEY for the GS! I always love to hear good news about the GS, all in hopes that they keep it and be more creative with it. I also happen to be a longstanding GS lover. (i like that picture of the GS)

    Alas! the ,, remote-touch problem with Lexus. I've complained about that before, then even tried to be more positive, but the fact is that this is the only real quality issue with Lexus. Yes. I hope Lexus and TMC at large finally listen. However, to me the infotainment system is far less important that the overall quality of Lexus vehicles, mechanically, comfort and aesthetically and now, with the LC stunning looks and fun drive. This is likely bc I am a little over 60. Nonetheless, if Lexus wants to get back on top in the overall quality-customer ratings, they absolutely must do much much better. The main problems are: difficulty manpulating the system while driving, and, a sometimes over/under sensitive remote touch device.

    Just one point is that in the LC, it operates a little more easily, PLUS, the voice command system also has improved such that you can use that more easily to do things while driving.
     
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  7. spwolf
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    so is the difference in systems so much between RX and new GS? Or is it just wonky JD IQS
     
  8. spwolf
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    bigger issue is likely control method and not just android auto or carplay, hence Toyota being above Lexus.

    In Camry launch reviews, they said Toyota was negotiating with Google and Apple about their tracking, I say if the customers dont care about being tracked or listened by Google and Apple, then Toyota should not either. There is no benefit for them there.
     
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  9. Tragic Bronson
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    I don't think Chevy is necessarily better, but the adoption of Apple Carplay can't be seen as negative for any car nowadays. Even the most pathetic Mitsubishi Mirage has it! : unamused:
    I also had the chance to really use the ACP in a Chevy, but in a rental Cruze while I was in So Florida. While I had to use Apple Maps, just plugging it in was a no brainer and provided me a usable navigation to get around those weird Florida highways and toll roads. While I also have an Android work phone, I wasn't able to connect the AA to use Google Maps with the interface for some reason, but I'm pretty sure I would've have enjoyed using it even more as well.
     
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  10. corradoMR2
    corradoMR2 Founding Member
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    I've had experience with many iterations of the RTI from the first gen in the HS, 3RX, RCF, IS, NX, and 4RX.

    Only one form factor works with relative ease, control, and precision, and that's the touch screen version with force feedback disabled. It's a fairly natural way to move the cursor and select it with good precision unlike the mouse controller where I still overshoot my selection one in ever four or five times.

    With that said, thank goodness the new LS and LC have the touchpad version.

    As for software, I guess I'm one of the few that likes it enough, better than the '17 A4's interface in my opinion and one of the things I disliked about the A4.
     
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  11. mediumhot
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    POINTING HARDWARE
    Both Remote touch mouse and touchpad are good premises. Problem is in actual realization. When the car is standstill everything works just fine but once the road distortion comes into equation everything falls apart. Actual feedback on the controller has to be self adjusting to driving circumstances, it has to become tighter and tougher in feedback/movement. In my opinion the mouse has to have some sort of electromagnetic mechanism in order to achieve that. When road becomes very bumpy controller gets more crude to the hand movement, when car is bumper to bumper in traffic controller get relaxed. With touchpad it would be even easier for them to achieve such effect cause its all software

    INFORMATON ARCHITECTURE & INTERACTION
    Available information and interaction on screen is too detailed and there is too much possibility on screen at once, great for standstill very poor when drivign. I am aware they tried to minimize screen switching by introducing the split screen but its the split screen that makes all the havoc. There is no clear physical distinction where is the border between two windows, just like that you can be all over the place when in fact you just want to fiddle with navigation (Navigation screen button hunting like full screen map is atrocious decision but its whole another story). In my opinion narrow screen on the right should have dedicated hardware controls assigned to it. Basically there should be a small pad with hardware keys on the right side of the touchpad that always correspond to small screen. Make it a 12 button layout like the phone dial but have each key adjust its function according to the screen. In AC small screen number 7 is Driver temperature up, number 4 is Driver temperature down, number 1 is Auto AC. All of you who have numpad on your keyboard right now would know exactly what am I referring to. Also there is no need for free floating display cursor to be show on non-map screens, it should stick to buttons only.

    GUI
    General graphics elements and arrangement of the icons and options on screen is quite poor, lots of submenus for no obvious reasons and lots of vertical scrolling instead of horizontal scrolling to take advantage of the wide screen. Huge graphic headers that do nothing really limit the amount of space available for the vertical scrolling, in media screen you have available only 5 items at the time. Without the header it could have easily been six at least and if horizontal scrolling was implemented instead of vertical they could have stacked 12 songs/items on one screen. I could pick apart GUI until tomorrow but overall it suffers from some basic fails. Navigation has no clear distinction of what's an actual button on screen and what's information such as compass, altitude, etc. When in music screen what is the first thing you want to do? Have access to Play, Mute, Skip that is the top priority but on Lexus music screen every command like shuffle and repeat has equal priority as basic controls. It gets even worse, when you click/tap to play the song (which unnecessarily brings up song dedicated screen) default selected option/button on screen is Album Image instead of PLAY button. This means you have to scroll to the Play controls on the left of the screen. Someone did not think this through. Solution is simple dedicated audio knob like in Audis which controls volume and skips or just use audio controls on the dashboard instead. Drawback of using Lexus audio controls stacked on vertical dash is the hand travel, you have to lift your hand of remote touch, apply desired controls and lay back your palm on the mouse which means you have to have quite good body mechanics memory in order to continue using without having to look at the screen to remind yourself where you at. Since Lexus mouse/touchpad is multi-axis control, unlike Audi knobs which are only single axis, there is some a bit more complex brain to muscle coordination going on. Overall GUI on this thing is designed to be touchscreen operated and most of the shortcoming come from this premise.

    SCROLLING HARDWARE
    This is something I wish Lexus has implemented. Instead of having up and down hardware keys in the middle of Map and Menu buttons maybe better option would have been a dial disk for scrolling purposes on the side of the remote where the redundant enter button is located right now. That would be a lot more convenient as your thumb would always rest there. More advanced approach would be 360 scroll ball which would scroll only in available directions on screen but it would make a lot difference when using the Map. Inside Navigation scrollball would run the cursor all over the map while the touchpad would select only the buttons on Map screen, this way your hand doesn't need to go all over the map only so it could reach a certain control. If you want to zoom in or zoom out of the map just push the ball and rotate it in one direction to zoom or opposite to zoom out. Like I said this is more advanced approach.


    On contrary good thing about Lexus infotainment is the amount of vehicle customization and customization of the infotainment itself. In this dedicated area Lexus has to be among top 3 manufacturers to ever offer this.
     
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  12. Ian Schmidt
    Ian Schmidt Staff Member Moderator
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    Agreed entirely that they never redesigned the user interaction after they got rid of the touchscreen, and that's the cause of many problems. Meanwhile touchscreen has taken over the world, so they might as well bring it back.

    That said, the actual navigation has worked well for me over the years, and the 3D diagrams of interchanges in the latest few versions are genuinely beautiful.
     
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  13. PeterF
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    Agreed, this has been my experience as well.