Lexus February 2018 Sales Report

[ssun30]

but it is only about time until everyone realizes that FWD does not go hand in hand with luxury, and if you are, make it FWD based AWD.

Of course they are making an AWD ES, did I write something confusing? I said transverse-FWD based, and it's different from saying the ES is FWD-only.

And now is actually the time when premium brands realize that basing their mainstream sedan on a transverse-FWD platform, then adding AWD to accommodate more power, is a sound idea. Volvo does it and it plans to introduce a 600hp hybrid beast. Lincoln and Cadillac both did it even on their flagships.

As it sits right now, the ES is not that attractive of an option anymore to many buyers, and proof of this is in the real world.

In real world it is THE best selling premium sedan in its intended market, despite arguably being an oudated vehicle without much attractive qualities other than reliability (and for the hybrid model, MPG).

but my question to all of you is that wouldn't it be better as a car if it had the GS platform too?

A RWD ES is the best possible outcome assuming price is taken out of the picture (one which I will be glad to see, too). The RWD GS we have right now is already a better car than the ES. But vehicle sales is always a combined factor of desirability and affordability; the FWD ES reached a nice balance between the two and that's the secret sauce. You have to go all the way up to the $80k+ segment before buyers become insensitive enough to price and absolute desirability takes over. AWD allows the ES to tap into the $60k+ market and that's good enough.

In short, will a RWD ES be a better vehicle for a more prestigious segment? Yes. Will it print as much money as a FWD/AWD ES? No.

having more prestige features like RWD.

RWD is not a prestige feature. You can find it on $5,000 kei trucks and minivans. Actually, people will always buy AWD over RWD if the cost difference is not much. Only a small portion of people buy the 5-series/E-class for RWD (and are mostly M/AMG people, sucks for them because they will only get AWD in the future). Otherwise why do you think Audi is still relevant?

 

[spwolf]

@ssun30 Why would you think that comments like that should be disregarded? Your reasoning for transverse-FWD/AWD cars being cheaper may be correct (and it is I am not denying that), but it is only about time until everyone realizes that FWD does not go hand in hand with luxury, and if you are, make it FWD based AWD. Every single damn day, people want more performance, and more luxurious/mechanical features stuffed into cars. There is a limit where these FWD cars can handle such technology, and Lexus is reluctant to go FWD based AWD on their sedans. Let's face it, if you're not a regular Lexus customer, having more prestige features like RWD, a true luxury interior, and NUMBERS will attract them. Numbers sells cars, horsepower sells cars, and we all know that the current platform won't be able to support more power. .

Thats just not true statistically. HP numbers dont solely sell (mainstream luxury) cars.

Otherwise RX, NX and ES would not be best selling Lexus cars and best in their class.

Or 520d and A6 2.0d would not be best selling luxury vehicles in Europe.

And as to "everyone realizing" that FWD does not go into luxury, thats not going to happen since both MB and BMW are moving to the FWD platforms, in fact most of their new vehicle development has been FWD platforms and Audi has always been FWD platform.

Best selling 5 series in the US, is 530i with 4cly engine. Thats just how sales work.

When we talk about sales, we need to talk about statistic and objective info that's freely available. Sales are mostly not about what your average car enthusiast cares about.

 

[spwolf]

people will always buy AWD over RWD if the cost difference is not much. Only a small portion of people buy the 5-series/E-class for RWD (and are mostly M/AMG people, sucks for them because they will only get AWD in the future). Otherwise why do you think Audi is still relevant?

That largely depends on the market. By far most 5 series are RWD and I cant remember when is the last time i saw new 4matic E class here in Europe .

AWD cars are something like 8% of the US market overall.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Now about fuel economy. Where I see it, gas prices shot sky-high around 4-5 years ago. The changes from big V8 SUV's, and massive trucks to things like luxury midsize sedans and Priuses (maybe an occasional minivan here and there). When they calmed, people were reluctant because they thought it was going to shoot high again. Now there's the SUV craze as we all know it, but I see a lot of compact/midsize cars now because prices are about to skyrocket again.

The late 90s SUV craze never actually ended. It backed off briefly and then came roaring back in more CUV-centric form (but still benefitting true SUVs, as GX/LX sales show). The RX has never stopped selling like crazy since it was introduced.

And while gas prices will necessarily fluctuate, I don't believe we'll see super-high prices again for the reasons I've covered.

 

[spwolf]

The late 90s SUV craze never actually ended. It backed off briefly and then came roaring back in more CUV-centric form (but still benefitting true SUVs, as GX/LX sales show). The RX has never stopped selling like crazy since it was introduced.

And while gas prices will necessarily fluctuate, I don't believe we'll see super-high prices again for the reasons I've covered.

You are correct Ian, it never ended plus there are now many, many options around.

Here in Europe now small SUVs (CUVs) are replacing regular hatchbacks.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

Regal 2,318 +126.6%
CLA 1,512 -.9%
A3 1,510 -21%
2series 949 +58.7%
ILX 904 +22.3%

3series 4,255 -3.5%
Cclass 3,947 -35.8%
Q50 3,904 +13.4%
TLX 2,794 +16.1%
ES 2,685 -.9%
A4 2,331 -8%
LaCrosse 1,989 +47.6%
IS 1,524 -9.5%
ATS 1,388 +38.1%
MKZ 1,380 -33.5%
Giulia 853 +108%
S60 642 +8.3%

Eclass 4,312 +24.2%
5series 3,185 +16.6%
XTS 1,943 +44.5%
G80 1,086
CT6 886 -3%
A6 842 -23%
Continental 758 -29.7%
S90 547 +145.3%
GS 534 -.4%
Q70 450 +8.7%
RLX 151 +46.6%

Sclass 1,369 +36.6%
CT6 845 +5.4%
7series 615 -1.3%
Panamera 602
LS 548 +86.4%
G90 277
A8 124 -51%

4series 2,124 -24.5%
A5 1,888 +467%
Q60 855 +5.6%
718 448
RC 186 -62.4%
F-Type 47
Alfa 4C 20 -38%

911 775
AMG GT 138 +48.4%
i8 39 -33%
NSX 17 -63%
R8 11 -83%

Encore 5,705 -12.6%
NX 4,263 +21.3%
X1 2,857 +39.4%
GLA 1,860 -15.2%
Q3 1,611 +46%
MKC 1,550 -20.9%
QX30 775 -67.9%

RX 7,238 +8.4%
GLC 5,403 +95.4%
XT5 4,668 +8.8%
Q5 4,469 +36%
RDX 3,766 -6.5%
X3 3,281 -18.4%
Envsion 2,842 -9.5%
MKX 1,812 -24.2%
XC60 1,620
Macan 1,506
QX50 1,120 -19.3%
Stelvio 695
F-PACE 174
Range Rover Evoque 123

X5 4,006 +2.7%
QX60 3,880 +46%
GLE 3,595 -10.5%
MDX 3,337 -5.8%
Enclave 3,143 +5.7%
Q7 2,321 -6%
XC90 2,149 +38.1%
GX 1,773 +16.1%
Cayenne 1,051
MKT 137 -52.3%

GLS 1,840 25.4%
QX80 1,689 +4.1%
Escalade 1,675 +16.8%
Navigator 1,063 +13.3%
Range Rover Sport 143
LX 385

 

[ssun30]

That largely depends on the market. By far most 5 series are RWD and I cant remember when is the last time i saw new 4matic E class here in Europe .

AWD cars are something like 8% of the US market overall.

What I meant was RWD is seldomly the reason people buy 5 series/E-class, not that people buy 5 series xDrive/E-class 4MATIC.

 

[spwolf]

What I meant was RWD is seldomly the reason people buy 5 series/E-class, not that people buy 5 series xDrive/E-class 4MATIC.

yes of course... you are completely correct. This is easily seen when we can check what models are customers actually buying - which is mostly 4cly these days, even in the US but especially in the EU.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Of course they are making an AWD ES, did I write something confusing? I said transverse-FWD based, and it's different from saying the ES is FWD-only.

And now is actually the time when premium brands realize that basing their mainstream sedan on a transverse-FWD platform, then adding AWD to accommodate more power, is a sound idea. Volvo does it and it plans to introduce a 600hp hybrid beast. Lincoln and Cadillac both did it even on their flagships.

No. You did NOT write anything confusing. I was not referring to your comment. I was discussing about the ES in general. And two, is the production of a AWD ES finalized? I sure did not hear anything about it. I also would like to hear further information in regards to the 7ES though. I would like to change my views on the ES. The first 3 generations were on the ball, and the rest I just couldn't stand them.

And actually? This whole time I thought they were longitudinal. I remember they axed their legendary I6 and their I5 engines because it was too hard for them to fit the steering column throughout the whole engine compartment. In short, it was a logistical disaster.

Question. Wouldn't it have been better if it was longitudinal? It would have provided better space for everything else no?

The late 90s SUV craze never actually ended. It backed off briefly and then came roaring back in more CUV-centric form (but still benefitting true SUVs, as GX/LX sales show). The RX has never stopped selling like crazy since it was introduced.

And while gas prices will necessarily fluctuate, I don't believe we'll see super-high prices again for the reasons I've covered.

Hey! Thanks for your thoughtful reply! Well, I am not too sure of the craze back then where I am, but to the breadth that you mentioned, it definitely wasn't anything like you said. Interesting though, as trends can swoop from left to right in an instant. I never was aware much about the 90's SUV craze. Thanks for that.

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By the way, hopefully this doesn't sound like we're arguing. I'm going to say it from now and I am not trying to have this conversation any other way than its supposed to be, just like passionate people who are excited for a company to re-surge into greatness. As you know, this is just my humble point of view and am not trying to provoke anything. I know that you guys know this, just wanted to put it out there. These are great eye-openers by the way.

 

[mikeavelli]

The bunching of that list is so bad it should be deleted from human history. I know you reposted it Tragic but the guy who puts it together is so biased and clueless its pathetic.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Hey! Thanks for your thoughtful reply! Well, I am not too sure of the craze back then where I am, but to the breadth that you mentioned, it definitely wasn't anything like you said. Interesting though, as trends can swoop from left to right in an instant. I never was aware much about the 90's SUV craze. Thanks for that.

Yeah, in the US from about 1996 onwards body-on-frame SUVs suddenly dominated the road, especially the Ford Explorer and Chevy Blazer (and to a lesser extent the larger Expedition and Suburban). This was the time of the infamous "defective Firestone tires on Explorers" problem. Some years later many people realized they didn't actually like driving BOF vehicles (including me, I traded my Grand Cherokee for a GS300 in 2002), and sedans came back for a few years. But automakers noticed the RX's sales as well as Subaru's success with, basically, taller versions of their sedans, and the CUV craze was born.

 

[ssun30]

And two, is the production of a AWD ES finalized? I sure did not hear anything about it. I also would like to hear further information in regards to the 7ES though.

The answer is no. But people here, myself included, base their argument assuming the ES will get AWD if it wants to have any chance of replacing the GS. In other words, the 7ES will be a flop if it doesn't offer AWD and higher power & price models. Then all of a sudden we begin to think maybe it will work because we hope for the best outcome. Obviously, if you missed this whole development of thinking as a bystander, it will sound completely ridiculous to you that somebody is actually thinking that the ES is better than the GS. If this was a bimmer forum, we will all laugh at stupid Lexus trying to replace RWD GS with the boring FWD ES.

 

[LDeleuran]

Yep. You have to see it more as a competitor for the Audi A6. It needs some trickery AWD system to keep up with the high performance version, while the common version will have 4 cylinder eco engines, FWD and sell like hot cakes in China.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

The bunching of that list is so bad it should be deleted from human history. I know you reposted it Tragic but the guy who puts it together is so biased and clueless its pathetic.

It was a repost from TOV, so perhaps so? IDK how numbers are biased when they are based on sales reports, is he not putting the vehicles in the right category?

 

[spwolf]

It was a repost from TOV, so perhaps so? IDK how numbers are biased when they are based on sales reports, is he not putting the vehicles in the right category?

it is categories... Lexus models are put into categories where sales are less impressive... for instance NX is "competing" vs Buick Encore and X1, while RX is competing vs X3 and GLC...

 

[mikeavelli]

it is categories... Lexus models are put into categories where sales are less impressive... for instance NX is "competing" vs Buick Encore and X1, while RX is competing vs X3 and GLC...

This...... he's putting Lexus in categories no one else puts them in. Its ridiculous. For example to him, the RX competes with the RDX and the Lexus starts where the RDX ends, the RX is based off the Camry, the RDX the CR-V and the RX offers a 450h and now RX L and options the RDX doesn't have. This idiot puts them in the same category every month.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

This...... he's putting Lexus in categories no one else puts them in. Its ridiculous. For example to him, the RX competes with the RDX and the Lexus starts where the RDX ends, the RX is based off the Camry, the RDX the CR-V and the RX offers a 450h and now RX L and options the RDX doesn't have. This idiot puts them in the same category every month.

We shouldn't worry about little things. We are knowledgeable enough to know that an RDX customer isn't crosshopping a GX. If anything, Honda err Acura folks are getting more confused which models are their competitors. Wonder why Buick is higher than Acura in many categories?

 

[abraxas]

We shouldn't worry about little things. We are knowledgeable enough to know that an RDX customer isn't crosshopping a GX. If anything, Honda err Acura folks are getting more confused which models are their competitors. Wonder why Buick is higher than Acura in many categories?

It's just a random list with no order or relationship regarding models, style, price, etc. Who cares? Thanks to that stupid looking grill he could have linked the RX with the old Edsel and it would have been fine with me. arty:

 

[mikeavelli]

Opinions should not be posted around like facts. That list is blatant misinformation. Then misinformation becomes truth for people.

Surely we know better but for those that do not and see this it is an obviously slight at Lexus.

 

[mediumhot]

Mercedes also bundles up sedans and coupes so figure of 3,900 sold C-class cars is not accurate which means Infiniti has outsold it! Good ol' G man!