Lexus Executive: Lineup Needs Subcompact Crossover & Three-Row Crossover

[Gecko]

I don't think so. Even with AWD, there's too many differences between an ES and a GS. They appeal to different buyer-bases.

Disagree. This is the case on the internet where the case for RWD vs FWD seems cut and dry, but it doesn't work like this in the real world.

 

[GSCT]

I don't think so. Even with AWD, there's too many differences between an ES and a GS. They appeal to different buyer-bases.

Given that us GS buyers have to work at getting one (even in the showroom, if they have one it's at the back of the row near the watercoler) I agree that even an AWD ES wouldn't help me buy one. However, it would be nice to see an ES with a little more excitement and flair, especially inside - the current one is kinda sleepy.

 

[mmcartalk]

Disagree. This is the case on the internet where the case for RWD vs FWD seems cut and dry, but it doesn't work like this in the real world.

I'm not quite sure I follow you here. Just what exactly is it that you disagree on? First, the Internet, today, for the most part, IS the real world.....or, at least, rapidly becoming a higher and higher percentage of it each day. Second, GS buyers, in general, would be more attracted towards the RWD handling, while ES buyers are more conservative, ride-oriented, and generally don't care which wheels actually drive the car. The FWD in the ES, all else equal (which it rarely in in the automotive world LOL) also gives a winter-traction advantage, though IMO an AWD option would also be nice.

 

[mmcartalk]

Given that us GS buyers have to work at getting one (even in the showroom, if they have one it's at the back of the row near the watercoler) I agree that even an AWD ES wouldn't help me buy one. However, it would be nice to see an ES with a little more excitement and flair, especially inside - the current one is kinda sleepy.

Are you saying that, instead of an AWD ES, you would get an RX instead? Or, that the ES, in general, just isn't your cup of tea because of its conservative design? I respect your opinion, of course,.....but it just doesn't seem quite clarified here.

 

[IS-SV]

(Given the topic here), Lexus knows adding subcompact and 3rd row crossover SUV's will result in far more incremental sales (and profit) than adding AWD option to ES.

 

[GSCT]

Are you saying that, instead of an AWD ES, you would get an RX instead? Or, that the ES, in general, just isn't your cup of tea because of its conservative design? I respect your opinion, of course,.....but it just doesn't seem quite clarified here.

They look less dynamic inside than, say the IS or NX and when I get one as a loaner, I have found the handling a little vague and less than crisp, so yes, it's not for me.

 

[mmcartalk]

(Given the topic here), Lexus knows adding subcompact and 3rd row crossover SUV's will result in far more incremental sales (and profit) than adding AWD option to ES.

Compact SUVs? Yes....the market, both upscale and downscale, is definitely going that way. Subcompact? We'll have to wait and see. Selling a subcompact SUV under low-priced nameplates like Honda, Mazda, Jeep, or Ford is one thing. Selling one under the Lexus nameplate, at least in the American market, IMO, will probably be quite a different matter. Of course, I could be wrong (it's happened before)...but only time will tell. And the success of the upmarket Buick Encore and Mercedes GLA could (?) be an encouraging sign for a similar-sized Lexus product.

 

[IS-SV]

Compact SUVs? Yes....the market, both upscale and downscale, is definitely going that way. Subcompact? We'll have to wait and see. Selling a subcompact SUV under low-priced nameplates like Honda, Mazda, Jeep, or Ford is one thing. Selling one under the Lexus nameplate, at least in the American market, IMO, will probably be quite a different matter. Of course, I could be wrong (it's happened before)...but only time will tell. And the success of the upmarket Buick Encore and Mercedes GLA could (?) be an encouraging sign for a similar-sized Lexus product.

Like I said already, Lexus knows as well, ( I'll restate:repeat what I already said given topic here):

The incremental sales of a Lexus subcompact SUV and/or 3rd row SUV would easily exceed inremental sales of an AWD ES. Not going out on much of a limb to figure that out.

GLA, X1, Encore sales are certainly relevant today. And today's sales give some insight into the future, trends do change and show growth. Successful brands like Lexus look beyond the present or past.

 

[mmcartalk]

Like I said already, Lexus knows as well, ( I'll restate:repeat what I already said given topic here):

What I said in my last post, just above, was not off-topic. We were (and are) discussing Lexus compact crossover SUVs.

The incremental sales of a Lexus subcompact SUV and/or 3rd row SUV would easily exceed inremental sales of an AWD ES. Not going out on much of a limb to figure that out.

GLA, X1, Encore sales are certainly relevant today. And today's sales give some insight into the future, trends do change and show growth. Successful brands like Lexus look beyond the present or past.

We'll see. IF you turn out correct here, I'll be the first one to admit it.

 

[IS-SV]

What I said in my last post, just above, was not off-topic. We were (and are) discussing Lexus compact crossover SUVs.

Sorry, not trying to point out OT. I was just trying to express something related to the topic.

Note: Topic of thread is about subcompact and 3rd row SUVs.

 

[meth.ix]

I dont think the ES needs a faster engine, AWD, or sportier styling. The ES is supposed to be the car that is quiet yet luxurious. The ES is not targeting people who want good performance, handling and styling. It's targeting people who need a good family car that's luxurious enough. That type of person doesn't care about horsepower rating or handling. If you are a person who also wants the performance and handling, you're gonna have to pay a larger premium for the GS. A more powerful engine and sportier styling on the ES may actually reduce sales rather than increase them because of less ideal styling for people who want an average family car and because the more powerful engine will make the price higher even though it won't matter at all to the buyers.

The only excuse for the ES I can think of is for buyers in Canada and Northern US. My dad was looking for a Lexus sedan and he wanted the ES because he wasn't worried about any of the advantages that the GS had until he heard about the AWD only being on the GS. But then again, offering AWD on the ES will bite even deeper into GS sales. AWD can be a pretty good advantage in Toronto.

 

[mmcartalk]

I dont think the ES needs a faster engine, AWD, or sportier styling. The ES is supposed to be the car that is quiet yet luxurious. The ES is not targeting people who want good performance, handling and styling. It's targeting people who need a good family car that's luxurious enough. That type of person doesn't care about horsepower rating or handling. If you are a person who also wants the performance and handling, you're gonna have to pay a larger premium for the GS. A more powerful engine and sportier styling on the ES may actually reduce sales rather than increase them because of less ideal styling for people who want an average family car and because the more powerful engine will make the price higher even though it won't matter at all to the buyers.

The only excuse for the ES I can think of is for buyers in Canada and Northern US. My dad was looking for a Lexus sedan and he wanted the ES because he wasn't worried about any of the advantages that the GS had until he heard about the AWD only being on the GS. But then again, offering AWD on the ES will bite even deeper into GS sales. AWD can be a pretty good advantage in Toronto.

Good post. I don't entirely agree on it not needing AWD, but your comments about power, handling, and styling are right on. The ES is what it is.....and appeals to a LOT of people that way.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I dont think the ES needs a faster engine, AWD, or sportier styling. The ES is supposed to be the car that is quiet yet luxurious. The ES is not targeting people who want good performance, handling and styling. It's targeting people who need a good family car that's luxurious enough.

I'll agree with 2 1/2 of those things. I think AWD is becoming a must-have for the northern half of the US and Canada, and a nice-to-have for the rest (this is a small but notable part of what drives the CUV/SUV craze). I also think the ES needs to look more like the rest of the lineup; it's out of kilter even with the RX and NX, let alone the LC and 5LS. That's going to necessarily involve some added sportiness because of what Lexus' current design language is, even if they try very hard to maintain the generic family hauler look.