Lexus Enthusiast Exclusive: Why Isn’t The IS 500 Called "IS F"?

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Mk4UmHa

Mk4UmHa

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To make things more muddy, is there an IS 500 F-Sport? I would think the 500 would make you know it's the V8 model, then the IS-F would be the V6TT or V8TT?
 
meth.ix

meth.ix

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Faisal Sheikh said:
It would be similar in straight line, but better for consistent lapping around the track than the IS500 F-Sport.
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I don't know how I would feel about this. Even with better cornering it couldn't compete with the upcoming M3 and C63 which will also have handling technology but also a lighter chassis and more power. I don't think it would be worthy of the F badge if it has the same engine personally. Lexus would be making the same mistake as they did with the name of the GS F.
 
meth.ix

meth.ix

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I'm betting that the next F-Sport Performance model will be in the next-generation RX. Probably not the V8 but maybe the TTV6?

Another random thought that came to my mind is the current LS 500 F-Sport being replaced with the V8. I do know that the 2UR is an evolution of the engine in the LS 460. I don't know much about how engines work in terms of acoustics and smoothness, but could it maybe be tuned to be less harsh so it still feels like an LS? It will finally give customers the 8-cylinder option they've been begging for and offer a bit more grunt too.
 
James

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Now that the F-Sport Performance is a V8 doesn't the full F if we get one have to be a TTV8? It wouldn't make sense to have a V8 in the 500 and a TTV6 in the full F would it?
 
Gecko

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James said:
Now that the F-Sport Performance is a V8 doesn't the full F if we get one have to be a TTV8? It wouldn't make sense to have a V8 in the 500 and a TTV6 in the full F would it?
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I think it will be relevant to each product line, and F SPORT, F SPORT Performance and F gives them the flexibility to create what works for each segment, price point and vehicle.

An example: A V8 NX, RX or ES F wouldn't make sense for a lot of reasons, but there is upward potential for other performance-oriented models in those model lines, right?

For the next generation, we will probably have ~300hp NX, RX and ES 350 as the "core/base" turbo 4. Those will also have an optional F SPORT package that comes with sport suspension, F SPORT looks and interior trim, but the same engine.

As the step up from that, Lexus might offer an NX/RX/ES 450h or 500h F SPORT Performance with turbo 4 + hybrid batteries + Direct 4 resulting in 360-400hp. Those vehicles would be very attractive as a total package, and not a full F product, but more than just F SPORT. They would probably satisfy as much appetite as exists in those product lines for more performance.

Make sense?
 
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GoHuskers

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Gecko said:
For the next generation, we will probably have ~300hp NX, RX and ES 350 as the "core/base" turbo 4. Those will also have an optional F SPORT package that comes with sport suspension, F SPORT looks and interior trim, but the same engine.

As the step up from that, Lexus might offer an NX/RX/ES 450h or 500h F SPORT Performance with turbo 4 + hybrid batteries + Direct 4 resulting in 360-400hp. Those vehicles would be very attractive as a total package, and not a full F product, but more than just F SPORT. They would probably satisfy as much appetite as exists in those product lines for more performance.
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I DO like this logic. Some of us can't have a 2nd or 3rd car but we do want to have something with little performance (and utilities) so RX/NX-450/500h F Sport Performance with Turbo4+ Battery + Direct 4 make great sense.
 
bogglo

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Like lexus said it's a new Era. The IS 500 IMO will be the last lexus with this V8 engine. So don't assume all F sport performance will have a V8. In the future what I think will happen is the TTV6 in the LS is the future of the F sport performance line and the cars that lexus think the ttv6 will be too powerful for like the UX will get a smaller engine coupled with some type of hybrid for their performance variant.

I expect a TTV8 in future F cars and probably some form of battery power for gas mileage purpose and maybe to please California 😂

It's a very smart decision they made. The next RX/ES should be very interesting with this new line and the E-Drive. I just hope they do the infotainment justice.
 
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B

BJM23

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First off thank you Lexus for staying with the beautiful 5 litre NA engine we all love. So dont think I am alone on some confusion of the new thinking at Lexus with the different trims. At first I was underwhelmed by the IS500. However, and it was mentioned above but I have never read it, will a full IS-F model come?
 
Gecko

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BJM23 said:
However, and it was mentioned above but I have never read it, will a full IS-F model come?
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Looking into my own crystal ball, 99.9% no.

IS 500 is for North America only because of emission regulations in other markets. The market for these cars is very small, and we just got an IS 500, which Lexus decided to do vs. IS F to make the car as accessible as possible with a lower price point. There is probably not enough room for both an IS 500 and IS F right now... at least until there is some next gen electrification or hybrid technology that could make an IS F possible in other markets as well.

This is it.
 
Lexus Jack

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Gecko said:
While I don't know the answer for sure, I thought about this a lot and I think "F SPORT Performance Line" is probably something new to stay. Why? Direct4, hybrids and batteries.

I bet you the trademarks for vehicles "RX 500h" and TX 500h" end up under "F Sport Performance" because with Direct4, there are going to be new powertrains with additional horsepower over the standard models.

I could also see LC F being dead, but if there is a new turbo V8 floating around somewhere, we get "LC 600 F SPORT" like this car.

The way it's spelled out in the article makes a lot of sense to me:
F SPORT: Standard car with suspension and styling changes.
F SPORT Performance: F SPORT car + actual powertrain upgrades
F: Mac Daddy

Batteries and hybrids make that middle tier very exciting - and very real.
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I have to imagine that a LC with a twin turbo V8 would be a full Mac Daddy LC-F and not just a LC600 F Sport. What would you call a F if not this car? Also, the IS500 is only a F-Sport Performance. Does this mean a IS-F could be in the works with a Twin Turbo V8? A true F would have to be next level in performance over a F-Sport Performance, right? I really hope so. The C63 AMG will have a Turbo 4 next year. We have a twin turbo V8?!?!?! That would get some street creds and put Lexus on the performance map! If Lexus wants to up the game on the Germans, you would want to do it with as many different models as possible and not just have one or two performance cars. Bring on the LS-F, the LC-F, the IS-F, and RX-F! I'm sure I'm only dreaming but every great idea started off only as a dream!

I've personally had 7 AMG cars. I loved driving them but hated owning them due to crazy depreciation and maintenance costs, reliability issues, MBenz service at the dealerships. Lexus really can cure a lot of these issues and offer a true performance competitive products for less initial cost, and much less ownership costs, We will be unstoppable. We can, We will.
 
Gecko

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Lexus Jack said:
I have to imagine that a LC with a twin turbo V8 would be a full Mac Daddy LC-F and not just a LC600 F Sport. What would you call a F if not this car? Also, the IS500 is only a F-Sport Performance. Does this mean a IS-F could be in the works with a Twin Turbo V8? A true F would have to be next level in performance over a F-Sport Performance, right? I really hope so. The C63 AMG will have a Turbo 4 next year. We have a twin turbo V8?!?!?! That would get some street creds and put Lexus on the performance map! If Lexus wants to up the game on the Germans, you would want to do it with as many different models as possible and not just have one or two performance cars. Bring on the LS-F, the LC-F, the IS-F, and RX-F! I'm sure I'm only dreaming but every great idea started off only as a dream!

I've personally had 7 AMG cars. I loved driving them but hated owning them due to crazy depreciation and maintenance costs, reliability issues, MBenz service at the dealerships. Lexus really can cure a lot of these issues and offer a true performance competitive products for less initial cost, and much less ownership costs, We will be unstoppable. We can, We will.
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I think it really depends, right?

(Car A) Let's say the theoretical new V8 clocks in at 550hp/575lb-ft - or they have a tune of it at that output that's very reliable and hits their performance goals. They can also use this engine on the LX 600, the next gen LS, LF-1 and just for the hell of it, the Tundra TRD Pro. That horsepower is really not AMG or M territory, but it would be a huge upgrade for the LC and maybe Lexus' research shows there is an appetite for such a vehicle. Assume the car with that new V8, a few visual changes, and some minor chassis reinforcement to accommodate the extra power is $115 - 125k with options.

(Car B) Lexus looks at the equipment for an "LC F" and determines that tuning the engine up to 660hp, packing it with BBS wheels, dedicated front and rear bumpers with fender vents, new seats and interior trim, rear mounted transaxle, Brembo brakes, torque vectoring differential, etc. would raise the price of the car to $160k for them to produce and not sell at a loss. Plus, the only other vehicle that could use that same 660hp tune is the LS F, which they have since canned because of sedan sales. And they look at sales of the M8 or the SL63 and feel like the universe of $160k+ buyers is a lot smaller than the universe of prospective buyers at $115-125k.

Car A is the LC 600 F SPORT Performance. Car B is the LC F.

What makes the most business sense?
 
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Levi

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C AMG gets I4. Wouldn't a new gen IS F based on lightweight RWD Mazda collaborated platform with hybrid V6 be killer?

See the new Maserati MC20 with the worlds most powerful production 6 cylinder. Now see the very light for a hybrid even compared to icev McLaren Artura with V6 hybrid.

Toyota's TTV6 only found in the LS is a new engine built from scratch. It has potential to be top performer.


Of course even as top performance in 2 years, on Club Lexus they'll call it an old outdated engines, but that is an other issue.
 
B

BJM23

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Gecko said:
Looking into my own crystal ball, 99.9% no.

IS 500 is for North America only because of emission regulations in other markets. The market for these cars is very small, and we just got an IS 500, which Lexus decided to do vs. IS F to make the car as accessible as possible with a lower price point. There is probably not enough room for both an IS 500 and IS F right now... at least until there is some next gen electrification or hybrid technology that could make an IS F possible in other markets as well.

This is it.
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I tend to agree with you but disappointed.
 
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