Lexus Debuts ES Prototype with New AWD System

[Sulu]

Which means this could be a PHV-only system.

This is what I am thinking. I believe that the E-Axle would only be available on plug-in hybrid vehicles.

With such a high-power motor driving the rear axle, the traction battery on a normal hybrid vehicle would drain quickly and fuel efficiency would suffer as a result, as the engine would be running more often to keep the battery topped up.

 

[ssun30]

If the driver locks the rear axle, and the ICE turns off, would that mean the ES can be a limited full-electric RWD car?

 

[internalaudit]

Limited and full rarely belong together unless it's the Toyota trim we are talking about lol

 

[Sulu]

I was thinking that the E-Axle could also be the basis of a through-the-road (TTR) hybrid system: the front wheels remain driven solely (mechanically) by the ICE, while the rear wheels are driven (electrically) by the E-Axle, similar to the PSA Peugeot-Citroën's HYbrid4 hybrid system used in the Peugeot 3008 HYbrid4. A TTR Hybrid system is an "easy" approach to building a hybrid vehicle, merely by replacing the otherwise non-traction wheels with an electrically-driven axle.

Such a car could start off in RWD EV mode, switch to FWD ICE-driven mode when the traction battery drains (topping up the battery by dragging the rear E-Axle in generator mode and/or the ICE turning a starter-alternator/generator), and switch to AWD hybrid gas-electric mode should the need arise.

I don't see Toyota building a different hybrid system, however, especially one that does not combine a starter-generator and primary traction motor in one combined transmission unit.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

My vague uninformed guessing saves the day again.

Excited to see what comes of this, but I imagine the battery pack that supports this sort of use case is a bit different to the standard hybrid setup? Or is that not the case?

Y'ALL SHOULDA FIGURED IT OUT. *angery reacts*

Now I spoon-fed y'all and the suspense is gone. *sad reaccs*

The writing is on the wall and it’s only a matter of time to say goodbye to the GS. I wish Lexus loved you as much as I do. You were the best vehicle I have ever owned. At least you’ll live on as a Toyota Mirai. 😢

I CAME HERE TO BE HAPPY NOT TO FEEL RIGHT NOW. 😭😭

Honestly the thought of not having a GS anymore horrifies me.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

The user-operable rear axle 'lock' should be standard on all their E-Four cars. Forcing the rear axle to engage (instead of software telling it to) could help a long way with, say, the RAV4 hybrid in offroad situations.

Would like to see even more power at the rear axle. On top of the A25A-FXS the two would have combined 235kW/315hp which is not a lot for a performance model of ES. Comparable solutions from BYD and Polestar have over 200kW in the rear for combined output of over 400kW. But I guess they don't want weight to get out of control.

On the RX with a 2.5 Turbo the combination could make 300-350kW which would be quite good.

On the LC it just creates a huge traction problem, those poor rear tyres.


Which means this could be a PHV-only system.

Who says it can't be used on the front axle either? I have said this for so long but everyone in this forum ignored me.

Think about a badass race car that Toyota is competing with right now.

That is your answer......

 

[CRSKTN]

Who says it can't be used on the front axle either? I have said this for so long but everyone in this forum ignored my ass.

Think about a badass racecar that Toyota is competing with right now.

That is your answer......

Does this have something to do with the Toyota Hybrid System-Racing from their Le Mans hybrid racecar / Toyota GR Super Sport Concept?


I think on the motorsport front they are going Supra too, right?

EDIT:

History of Toyota Hybrid System-Racing (THS-R) | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

Although the Toyota Prius had been on sale since 1997, the earliest indication that Toyota's proprietary hybrid technologies could be adapted for racing came on 12 May 2005, when Toyota Motor Corporation determined that it would "consider the race activity that uses a hybrid system."

global.toyota

Hmm, so the GS450h in '06 was actually the first racing hybrid system, so it partly started in Lexus.

This:

Seems to show it can be on either axle or both, but I have no idea if this is the same sort of technology being talked about here.

This:

Seems to show their ideas about in-wheel motors going back to their '07 Supra.

Sorry, more vague guessing from me, but this is very interesting.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Does this have something to do with the Toyota Hybrid System-Racing from their Le Mans hybrid racecar / Toyota GR Super Sport Concept?

I think on the motorsport front they are going Supra too, right?

You got it, and it's what I have been saying for the past 567.3 years.

And yeah, they're starting to go crazy with the Supra in Europe and the rest of the world when it comes to racing.

 

[CRSKTN]

You got it, and it's what I have been saying for the past 567.3 years.

And yeah, they're starting to go crazy with the Supra in Europe and the rest of the world when it comes to racing.

Probably see it first on something like the next NX, since it's looking to me like the RAV4 PHEV might have it to help with towing.

 

[maiaramdan]

Does this have something to do with the Toyota Hybrid System-Racing from their Le Mans hybrid racecar / Toyota GR Super Sport Concept?


I think on the motorsport front they are going Supra too, right?

EDIT:

History of Toyota Hybrid System-Racing (THS-R) | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

Although the Toyota Prius had been on sale since 1997, the earliest indication that Toyota's proprietary hybrid technologies could be adapted for racing came on 12 May 2005, when Toyota Motor Corporation determined that it would "consider the race activity that uses a hybrid system."

global.toyota

Hmm, so the GS450h in '06 was actually the first racing hybrid system, so it partly started in Lexus.

This:

Seems to show it can be on either axle or both, but I have no idea if this is the same sort of technology being talked about here.

This:

Seems to show their ideas about in-wheel motors going back to their '07 Supra.

Sorry, more vague guessing from me, but this is very interesting.

I guess they won't put it that way in ES / Avalon / Camry

I think it will be either Highlander / RX system as they share with them the same architecture or the electric AWD found in the new Rav4

 

[internalaudit]

Now Toyota PHEVs are getting me excited. Lexus, how about a 4IS Prime with torque vectoring? I promise I won't bug you for a 4IS BEV anymore lol.

Toyota Revs Up Lineup with New 302-Horsepower RAV4 Prime - Toyota USA Newsroom

LOS ANGELES (Nov. 20, 2019) - The fifth-generation Toyota RAV4, on the market for barely a year, is going more places than it has ever gone before. The arrival of the first-ever RAV4 TRD Off-Road model was announced earlier this year, and today, at the Los Angeles Auto Show, Toyota debuts a new...

pressroom.toyota.com

• The Most Powerful and Quickest RAV4 Ever
• The Most Fuel-Efficient RAV4 Ever
• Projected 0-60 MPH in 5.8 Seconds and Estimated 90 MPGe
• Available in SE and XSE Model Grades
• Available Color Head-Up Display, a RAV4 First
• Premium Design Features
• New for Model Year 2021 and Available in Summer 2020

 

[The boy of car dreaming]

Make a new ES series update with

Sporty options and Powertrain
ES 300h F sport v6 AWDe
ES 300h F sport 2.5L 4cyl AWDe
ES 350 2.0T 4 cyl FWD and V6 FWD.
Update infotainment system Apple CarPlay and Android Auto and Folding rear seats.

 

[CRSKTN]

Torque vec could be huge. Go-karts aren't super fast, but they feel fast. If you could make a modestly fast SUV feel fun to drive and fast, that could still be very compelling.

 

[The boy of car dreaming]

Torque vec could be huge. Go-karts aren't super fast, but they feel fast. If you could make a modestly fast SUV feel fun to drive and fast, that could still be very compelling.

Yeah is true. A fast suv will be fun and fast to drive you going to feel the power. The upcoming NX 2.5T can be a 390-450hp jumped.

 

[internalaudit]

Torque vec could be huge. Go-karts aren't super fast, but they feel fast. If you could make a modestly fast SUV feel fun to drive and fast, that could still be very compelling.

That's what I keep saying.

Matt F.? (Something not the cuss words) suggested the GSF with TVD felt like an oversized Miata.

Everyone knows that electric motor torque vectoring will be much faster than mechanical systems so for me, I think I will require torque vectoring in my next car.

I don't need a BEV especially just to save on gasoline and have that instant torque. Depreciation on any new car is still going to eclipse my fuel costs. There's speed limits everywhere and I don't plan to track.

But electric torque vectoring will not only enhance driving dynamics but also improve safety when going through surfaces with varying coefficients of friction. I will not drive crazy but at least I want to know my BEV can drive much better than 90% of cars out there, even sports sedans/coupes.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

Matt F.? (Something not the cuss words) suggested the GSF with TVD felt like an oversized Miata.

Matt Farah.

 

[The boy of car dreaming]

They can have a FWD/AWD option sedan 2T 4cyl and v6 and hybrid with ES 300h

 

[Levi]

That's what I keep saying.

Matt F.? (Something not the cuss words) suggested the GSF with TVD felt like an oversized Miata.

Everyone knows that electric motor torque vectoring will be much faster than mechanical systems so for me, I think I will require torque vectoring in my next car.

I don't need a BEV especially just to save on gasoline and have that instant torque. Depreciation on any new car is still going to eclipse my fuel costs. There's speed limits everywhere and I don't plan to track.

But electric torque vectoring will not only enhance driving dynamics but also improve safety when going through surfaces with varying coefficients of friction. I will not drive crazy but at least I want to know my BEV can drive much better than 90% of cars out there, even sports sedans/coupes.

Would torque vectoring as in the GSF work for off road? I know it is RWD only but locked rear differential on rwd car is very capable off road.

 

[internalaudit]

Would torque vectoring as in the GSF work for off road? I know it is RWD only but locked rear differential on rwd car is very capable off road.

I am no expert so can't provide a response but why would you do that? I would only do that if there was an attempt to kidnap me lol.

 

[Will1991]

Would torque vectoring as in the GSF work for off road? I know it is RWD only but locked rear differential on rwd car is very capable off road.

For off-roading you need different things, low range, lockable differentials, height... The same thing on road cars is dangerous (specially a locked differential).