Jeremy Clarkson on Manual Transmissions.

[mmcartalk]

For you Clarkson-lovers (and I know there are plenty of them)....here's an interesting take on one of his views. While I don't necessarily dislike three-pedal vehicles myself (back when I myself learned to drive, traffic was light enough that they were still some fun...traffic still is, in some places). As one ages, though, and gets leg-issues (and even young people can get leg-injuries from sports), and traffic worsened, seems like there is less and less of a case today for traditional manuals as time goes on. Clarkson does have a point.

I can still see three pedals, though, in some sports-cars, exotics, and traditional pony-cars.

http://www.carscoops.com/2016/02/jeremy-clarkson-slams-manual-gearbox.html


Some say “controversy” is his middle name and, love him or loathe him, you can’t deny he’s anything but boring.
Sun column comes as a surprise.

“WHY,” I wailed inwardly, “would anyone ever buy a car with a manual gearbox these days?”

Guess what: That’s just the beginning of his attack against those who prefer to change cogs themselves instead of leaving the task to a computer.

“The only people who would buy an old-fashioned gearstick manual are the sort who choose not to have a washing machine because they prefer to clean their clothes in the local river.” *

* Leave it to Clarkson to come up with some good one-liners LOL

Why, the Pope may turn out not to be Catholic after all, but Jezza advocating auto boxes and lashing out against manuals? That’s fresh!

In a nutshell what he says is that, since most of us spend the best part of our time behind the wheel not on a great mountain road or a track, when we can get the best out of a manual and enjoy things like heel-and-toe, but stuck in traffic or in motorways, we’d be much better off with a self-shifter.

Today they are so far removed from the slow, heavy, fuel-thirsty ones of the past that they are the natural option if you’re out for a new car.

“Flappy-paddle gearboxes now are sublime. Fast. Easy. Rewarding. Nice.”

Before you cry “Heresy!”, bear in mind that cars are nowadays just a means of getting from point A to point B for most drivers, who probably don’t know, and aren’t interesting in learning either, about things like understeer, oversteer, steering feel, how to balance the car on the throttle – never mind heel-and-toe and executing the perfect downshift.

Manufacturers themselves are consigning the gear lever to history. Ferrari’s metal gate is dead and buried and nowhere to be found in any of its cars on sale today. The same goes for Lamborghini and McLaren; and you definitely remember the outrage caused by Porsche Motorsport offering only a PDK dual-clutch on the GT3 and, subsequently, the GT3 RS. Nissan GT-R? Hypercars? Not a gear lever in sight, only paddles and buttons.

Is he just making a fuss for the sake of it or is he right in proclaiming the end of the manual?

 

[IS-SV]

“The only people who would buy an old-fashioned gearstick manual are the sort who choose not to have a washing machine because they prefer to clean their clothes in the local river.”

Yes. Best line in the entire article by far.

Regarding topic, I've owned more stick shift cars than 95% of people on this forum. And this fuss is a lot about nothing, more about written amusement. Also somebody needs to explain the concept of a weekend car here, because not everybody uses same car(s) for commuting or for being "stuck in traffic".

And even in 2016 I request a manual tranny loaner car from my Acura/Honda independent shop when getting my Honda serviced (they appreciate my request because most customers want auto tranny loaners only), just for fun for a day:heart_eyes:...

 

[mmcartalk]

“

And even in 2016 I request a manual tranny loaner car from my Acura/Honda independent shop when getting my Honda serviced (they appreciate my request because most customers want auto tranny loaners only), just for fun for a day:heart_eyes:...

Probably not a bad idea....although I'm surprised they even still have 3-pedal loaners. I also try and drive (or even review) a stick every once in a while (maybe a Miata or something like that), just so I don't forget my own skills, either.

The last Nissan 370 Z I sampled, several years ago, had an interesting feature for its three pedals......a device that automatically matched engine/transmission-shaft RPM when you pushed the clutch-pedal in (you could turn it off if you didn't want it). Some purists, of course, will laugh at that....but it does save some significant wear on the synchros and clutch lining while downshifting, without the need to master the art of heel-and-toe stuff or double-clutching. Some vehicles, of course, have poorly-designed pedals for heel-and-toe shifting.

Just for the record, from all the cars I have sampled over the years, I thought the best and slickest FWD manual shift-linkage/easy clutch-action has been on the Honda Civic........the best RWD linkage and clutch on the Mazda Miata and Porsche Boxster. Some smaller Toyota/Scion manual gearboxes, though, have come close.

 

[mmcartalk]

Sometimes, though, a stick has unexpected advantages. Watch what happens when an armed carjacker tries to run off with a small pickup (an old Chevy S-10, I think?)

 

[IS-SV]

Probably not a bad idea....although I'm surprised they even still have 3-pedal loaners. I also try and drive (or even review) a stick every once in a while (maybe a Miata or something like that), just so I don't forget my own skills, either.

The last Nissan 370 Z I sampled, several years ago, had an interesting feature for its three pedals......a device that automatically matched engine/transmission-shaft RPM when you pushed the clutch-pedal in (you could turn it off if you didn't want it). Some purists, of course, will laugh at that....but it does save some significant wear on the synchros and clutch lining while downshifting, without the need to master the art of heel-and-toe stuff or double-clutching. Some vehicles, of course, have poorly-designed pedals for heel-and-toe shifting.

Just for the record, from all the cars I have sampled over the years, I thought the best and slickest FWD manual shift-linkage/easy clutch-action has been on the Honda Civic........the best RWD linkage and clutch on the Mazda Miata and Porsche Boxster. Some smaller Toyota/Scion manual gearboxes, though, have come close.

Since we are expanding on the manual tranny topic, I am curious as to what manual tranny cars you actually owned in the past?....

 

[mmcartalk]

Since we are expanding on the manual tranny topic, I am curious as to what manual tranny cars you actually owned in the past?....

Oh, I'm sure not as many as you have. I have not owned many in recent years, but I owned some in the 70s and 80s (or drove the ones that were in my family). I've had experience with three-on-the-tree, four-on-the-floor, and five-on the floor. I have not a (yet) owned a six-speed manual. I probably would have owned more than I actually did, especially after the 1980s, had I not developed some leg/foot problems (including gout) and had traffic not been so bad in this area. D.C. and California have long had the worst traffic in the country. My brother has owned more of them than than I have (he's since converted to automatics because of the traffic), and, when my legs were in good health, I often would take one of his out for a little spin just to keep from getting too stale.

I assume some of yours were Porsches, as you seem to be a Porsche fan.

Today, for me, except for some occasional MT reviews (which helps keep me from getting too stale), stick-driving is mostly a memory....dating back to a time when roads were clearer, the scenery was nicer, and driving was more fun (and flying small planes, as I am an ex-pilot too). Fortunately, that chronic gout in my foot is long-gone......not preventing it anymore.

 

[mmcartalk]

Even with my limited experience, I'd have to say that three devices, over the years, have really helped with stick-driving. One, of course, is having synchros on all the gears, as some transmissions, even when they used upper-gear synchros, lacked them on first gear. That meant that you had to come to almost a full stop (1 or 2 MPH) before slipping the lever into first.....otherwise you would get crunching. My dad's old 1968 Slant-Six Plymouth Valiant, for instance, not only had a non-synchro first, but terribly sloppy linkage with the three-on-the-tree....you had to feather-lever the 2-3 shift, even WITH the slow and ineffective synchros, to keep from grinding. Chrysler's three-tree unit of that era had a reputation for being sloppy and poorly-made (unlike their tank-durable Torqueflite automatics of the time). The lever would shake like a wet puppy going over bumps. A high-school friend of mine had (briefly) a 1970 AMC Hornet with three-on-the-tree that was much more positive on the lever/clutch feel, and all-synchro to boot.

The second was the starter-interlock, a safety device that prevented the starter-motor from operating until the clutch pedal was pushed down and the engine disconnected from the transmission. While it did prevent the car from accentually lunging forward on the starter motor alone and hitting someone, it also made it more difficult (depending on just how it was wired) in some cases to pop the clutch to start it on a dead battery when the car was rolling.

The third device was actually invented back in the early 1950s on the Studebakers of the era, but saw little use after that, until Subaru adopted it for its manual-trnamission cars many years later....the device that automatically holds brake-pressure on an uphill, even with your foot is off the brake and on the clutch. When you release the clutch, the moment the clutch engages, the brake-pressure releases so the car can move forward. It's a handy device that helps drivers avoid the dreaded roll-back when you are stopped on a upgrade and someone is close behind you.

(a fourth device, the automatic RPM-matching on downshifts, I've already described, above, on the Nissan 370Z)

OK......enough of my re-hashes. This is Clarkson's thread, not mine LOL.

 

[mikeavelli]

I completely understand why these amazing new Autos (DSG's etc) are so popular but I just don't understand how a sports car company can just stop making it as an option. I would think if anyone would offer it, it would be an exotic car company. Just charge people who want them more.

And to me there is a big image thing with driving a manual. It's sexy, its manly, it cool, its hip, its RARE. I don't find it to be old school or ridiculous. Its kind of like meeting someone that drinks Guinness, most everyone drinks beer, not not everyone drinks a stout.

The Porsche GT4 has been hailed as one of the best driving cars around and it "only" has 385hp. It is manual only. There is a connection you have with the car that an automatic will never provide, I don't care how much faster than auto is. Contrarily the GT3 RS is far more capable with 500hp and Auto only and it is less involving simply based on it being PDK only. There is just no getting around that.

Thus why Porsche has stated the new round of GT cars will be manual at last as an option. And in Geneva the new 911 R is supposedly a GT3 manual without the name.

Clarkson is amazing to read but it doesn't always have to be black/white and yes and no.

Car brands have gotten so into lap times and providing faster times to the public that no one can replicate they have lost the plot a bit on what is truly an engaging car.

 

[IS-SV]

Agreed, fun factor cannot be overlooked and like you said "it's sexy, its manly, it cool, its hip, its RARE.". Exotics and semi-exotics are usually not daily drivers, so the manual as option should be retained.

And to that effect, all the Porsche mid-engine and rear-engine manual cars are more engaging than anything in similar price ranges and the sweet manual is a big part of the experience. (Although the unique flat six sitting behind the driver is a huge part of the appeal too, lol).

 

[mikeavelli]

Agreed, fun factor cannot be overlooked and like you said "it's sexy, its manly, it cool, its hip, its RARE.". Exotics and semi-exotics are usually not daily drivers, so the manual as option should be retained.

And to that effect, all the Porsche mid-engine and rear-engine manual cars are more engaging than anything in similar price ranges and the sweet manual is a big part of the experience. (Although the unique flat six sitting behind the driver is a huge part of the appeal too, lol).

Agreed.. and I think we both agree that a manual does not mean automatic engagement and fun. A poor chassis, engine, manual tranny can be a chore. Its a blend of it all. One reason I would never ask for a Lexus manual again, they all stunk pretty bad to me.

 

[mmcartalk]

Agreed.. and I think we both agree that a manual does not mean automatic engagement and fun. A poor chassis, engine, manual tranny can be a chore. Its a blend of it all. One reason I would never ask for a Lexus manual again, they all stunk pretty bad to me.

Yeah, I wasn't all that impressed with the 5-speed manual they put in the IS300 (the only Lexus manual I've ever sampled). It was't a bad unit overall, and did the job, but lacked some of the crispness that was available from some of its competitors.

 

[oem_is300]

Definitely agree with what you guys are saying - yeah the new autos/DSG transmissions maybe bmgetting smarter and quicker, but In spirited driving you just can't beat the involvement a manual transmission provides.

Yeah, I wasn't all that impressed with the 5-speed manual they put in the IS300 (the only Lexus manual I've ever sampled). It was't a bad unit overall, and did the job, but lacked some of the crispness that was available from some of its competitors.

Can't say that I agree here. I really like the 5-speed in my IS. It's a little clunky when cold, but I think it responds really well once warm. I've driven a 2IS with the manual and I wasn't a huge fan of that transmission though.

Also always wanted to try out the SC300 and ES300 with a manual, but never came across that opportunity.

 

[Och]

If I had spare money, and more importantly spare time for a weekend toy car, maybe I would consider a manual. And thats a big maybe. But for a car thats driven on regular basis - hell no.

 

[mmcartalk]

Definitely agree with what you guys are saying - yeah the new autos/DSG transmissions maybe bmgetting smarter and quicker, but In spirited driving you just can't beat the involvement a manual transmission provides.



Can't say that I agree here. I really like the 5-speed in my IS. It's a little clunky when cold, but I think it responds really well once warm. I've driven a 2IS with the manual and I wasn't a huge fan of that transmission though.

The IS300's manual transmission wasn't bad at all (I've seen lots worse)......but seemed to lack some of the crispness found in other Toyota models.

Also always wanted to try out the SC300 and ES300 with a manual, but never came across that opportunity.

I think very few of them were built......... I've yet to see one.

 

[IS-SV]

I'm not convinced Clarkson can handle a manual tranny very well these days, given his decline.

 

[IS-SV]

I think very few of them were built......... I've yet to see one.

SC300 manuals are still around in CA, some young enthusiast like to restore them. I've never seen ES300 manual personally.

 

[Och]

SC300 manuals are still around in CA, some young enthusiast like to restore them. I've never seen ES300 manual personally.

Early ES300 is mechanically identical to Toyota Camry. If you've ever driven a manual V6 Camry, then the ES will drive pretty much the same. I can't recall if I've ever seen a manual Camry, but I did drive a manual Solara that a friend of mine owned about 15 years ago. I think it was a V6.

 

[mmcartalk]

I'm not convinced Clarkson can handle a manual tranny very well these days, given his decline.

If he can handle a Bugatti Veyron flat-out (which he's done) and come back from it in one piece, I don't see where a simple clutch and third pedal will be that big a problem to him....unless his age or health has brought on leg or foot-problems. In fact, a number of the small Euro-market (non-U.S.) vehicles that he and his two colleagues (James May and Richard Hammond) formerly test-drove and reviewed for Top Gear magazine don't even offer automatics.....they are strictly three-pedal vehicles.

 

[IS-SV]

If he can handle a Bugatti Veyron flat-out (which he's done) and come back from it in one piece, I don't see where a simple clutch and third pedal will be that big a problem to him....unless his age or health has brought on leg or foot-problems. .

Tell that story to Porsche after he spun a Turbo, lol.

Exactly the point, because his leg and/or foot is controlled by his brain which sadly may have diminished capacity recently.

(btw-my original comment was in jest)

 

[mmcartalk]

Tell that story to Porsche after he spun a Turbo, lol.

Depends on how old the Porsche was. (I don't remember that exact event you are talking about). Older rear-engine Porsches (as opposed to the mid-engined Boxster/Cayman) were notoriously tail-happy, particularly in the days before modern suspension / steering / tire improvements. Drop-throttle oversteer in corners was the rule (sometimes with sudden, snap-oversteer), and many otherwise good or excellent drivers easily spun them out.

Exactly the point, because his leg and/or foot is controlled by his brain which sadly may have diminished capacity recently.

Agreed to an extent.......resorting to Neanderthal techniques when you don't like something your boss says or does is not necessarily the mark of a mature or sensible brain. But, you can have a perfectly stable mass of gray matter between your two ears and still have problems in your lower extremities (gout, sciatica, arthritis, bursitis, sports-injuries, broken bones, etc....) which prevent, or make more difficult, the use of the third pedal. ( I also believe that is another reason, among several, for the rise in two-pedal automatics over the years)

Reminds me of a personal event in my youth, when, in high school, I broke a couple of bones in my right hand trying to impress a girl in high school and get her back after she had dated me and accepted my ring, then snubbed me over a silly misunderstanding (and don't ask me the details on how I broke my hand......it was immature and not very smart LOL). Even with my hand and right lower-forearm in a cast for four (or was it six?) weeks, with all that thick cast-material wound around my hand and only my thumb and a couple of fingers sticking out (casts were very thick and clumsy in those days), I was able to still somehow grasp the very end of the manual three-on-the-tree shift-lever on my dad's 1968 Plymouth Valiant and shift it, while steering the slow-reacting, recirculating-ball, non-power steering with my left hand and partial-use of the right.

(BTW, my hand healed up perfectly....haven't had any problems with it since. And, though it look a long time, I finally got her out of my mind, too.....when you're young and in love, that's hard to do).