Is The Spindle Grille Killing Lexus Sales?

[Gecko]

Following up on my post above, if we think back to Audi, who arguably started this trend, everyone felt like their grill was absurd, way too big, not elegant - and for a while, it was. However, over ~2 generations, Audi cleaned it up, streamlined the look and actually made and less imposing in contrast to the other elements on the front end.

Then:

Now:

The grill is still big, but Audi found ways to take the visual impact and spread it more evenly on the front of the car - adding a "chin" to the very bottom of the front bumper, adding the splitter bar in the middle of the grill, garnish inside the grill openings, etc.

The spindle shape works for Lexus, but it needs to be similarly refined.

 

[PeterF]

I mentioned this in the LF-1 thread but my thoughts are similar:

An area for improvement for Lexus design remains the front end - not just the spindle itself, but the overall integration of grille, bumpers, headlights and sheetmetal. The LC face is the only one that really nails it for me: it's clean, simple and beautifully matches the rest of the car (which is also clean, aggressive, elegant and futuristic).

The LS is 80% of the way there for me... it's strange how the main grille has the 3D mesh, but the two side air inlets on either side just have horizontal slats. It doesn't match. In addition, on either side of the inversion point on the grille, there are unnecessary body lines that should have been just smoothed into the grille surround, like the LF-FC. What I really like about the LF-FC is how simple but aggressive and elegant the front end was... production LS is just not "there."

I also like the spindle more when the lines are straighter - a la LC - instead of like on the LS where the bottom portion bows out. I don't care for that look at all. For as dramatic as the LC is, the front end is actually very clean and simplistic - that's the look Lexus should be striving for IMO.

Lexus' design language has finally reached it's full potential and I just hope the grille follows and Lexus realizes that BIG and BOLD isn't necessarily better... especially when the rest of the car is fairly svelte, organic and curvy.

Also, Lexus really wants to commit to the separated DRL check, but they can't do it fully. The LC, once again, gets this right because the shapes are simple and elegant. The LS looks sort of gimmicky, with three wings that check down into the bottom LED strip from the projectors... I wish they'd have kept it all together in one, more simplistic headlight shape like the LX or RX. It would have reduced the complexity of the front end design slightly. The LC is really the only iteration that looks good with separated DRLs. GS, NX and IS look tacked on and pretty bad, IMO. RX and LX look rather conservative but very clean and elegant. ES is "meh."

Good spindle:

"Meh" spindle":

Bad spindle:

you make excellent, and very reasonable points. I completely agree that the grille is best on the LC; they have really nailed that front end. More evolulion is required. thanks for the pics! great illustration of your point

 

[Gecko]

It's far from perfect, but I would have liked the LS front end to look more like the right side of this pic.

Left is stock, right is edited (simplified headlight, straightened the bottom part of the grill, blacked out the right-hand opening and eliminated the extra body line around the grill)

 

[RAL]

I agree with Gecko's critique of the spindle grille. I understand embracing the hourglass/spindle shape for brand identity. However, IMO this continued evolution toward an ever increasing bodacious shape should be tempered ... Styling does not have to be complex and brash to be bold and dramatic ... simple is usually better, and bigger may not be!

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I think that Photoshop oversimplifies things. If all you do is black out the lower intakes, for me the entire front end snaps into place nicely. I like the curve in the lower end of the spindle; it gives the front end some of the curviness that dominates the side view of the car. And while I like the look of the integrated DRLs, doing so creates a big expanse of boring body color that isn't there now, so I gotta give the decision to Lexus' original layout.

 

[PeterF]

I like the lower intakes, and I like the lights as well, but perhaps some modifications there might make things more tied together along the lines of what Gecko has done with photoshop. I think that somehow they have to make the overall grille smaller and the only way to do that is to lower the hood / nose more, perhaps tapering it downwards like the Audi shown in Gecko's pics. this might be difficult and may then require some extension of the front a bit

 

[Gecko]

I think that Photoshop oversimplifies things. If all you do is black out the lower intakes, for me the entire front end snaps into place nicely. I like the curve in the lower end of the spindle; it gives the front end some of the curviness that dominates the side view of the car. And while I like the look of the integrated DRLs, doing so creates a big expanse of boring body color that isn't there now, so I gotta give the decision to Lexus' original layout.

I like the lower intakes, and I like the lights as well, but perhaps some modifications there might make things more tied together along the lines of what Gecko has done with photoshop. I think that somehow they have to make the overall grille smaller and the only way to do that is to lower the hood / nose more, perhaps tapering it downwards like the Audi shown in Gecko's pics. this might be difficult and may then require some extension of the front a bit

I actually agree... haha. Once I finished that pic, I decided the modified front end was a little too bland. Maybe I should have left the headlight alone? I really do like the straighter grille though, a la LC, though. Oh well. I'm looking forward to seeing one of these cars on the road!

 

[mikeavelli]

From a design standpoint if the side air vents also have the mesh ,yes it will match but then it takes away from the spindle. You would be focused past the shape of the grill as the mesh in the lower bottom gets attention.

I have always found lower fog-lamps to help a front end but with headlights so good today those days are nearly gone. But I think fogs would balance things better.

 

[mikeavelli]

Following up on my post above, if we think back to Audi, who arguably started this trend, everyone felt like their grill was absurd, way too big, not elegant - and for a while, it was. However, over ~2 generations, Audi cleaned it up, streamlined the look and actually made and less imposing in contrast to the other elements on the front end.

Then:

Now:

The grill is still big, but Audi found ways to take the visual impact and spread it more evenly on the front of the car - adding a "chin" to the very bottom of the front bumper, adding the splitter bar in the middle of the grill, garnish inside the grill openings, etc.

The spindle shape works for Lexus, but it needs to be similarly refined.

I actually liked the old audi grills better when they were pretty close to a square and the front end wasn't so pinched. Personal preference. I think the last generation cars were pretty damn perfect in regards to the S8, S5, S6 and even the RS7 is dope, the drooping rear never bugged me.

 

[renyeo]

One of the ways Lexus Spindle grille may evolve apart from integrating the grille into rest of the front fascia is visually split the 1/3 top bit (where the Lexus logo is affixed) from the lower section (rest of the 3/4 in front of the radiators) but remain a one-piece 3D fixture.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

One of the ways Lexus Spindle grille may evolve apart from integrating the grille into rest of the front fascia is visually split the 1/3 top bit (where the Lexus logo is affixed) from the lower section (rest of the 3/4 in front of the radiators) but remain a one-piece 3D fixture.

In some ways, that's where the spindle came from. Pre-spindle Lexus cars had the top 1/3rd of the spindle as the actual grille, and then there were shapes strongly implying the other 2/3rds. The spindle just changed it so the whole shape was the grille.

 

[mikeavelli]

It's far from perfect, but I would have liked the LS front end to look more like the right side of this pic.

Left is stock, right is edited (simplified headlight, straightened the bottom part of the grill, blacked out the right-hand opening and eliminated the extra body line around the grill)

Well check this Gecko... the F-Sport does exactly what you want...so now I'm eating crow lol...

 

[PeterF]

I like how that looks!!!

 

[mmcartalk]

In some ways, that's where the spindle came from. Pre-spindle Lexus cars had the top 1/3rd of the spindle as the actual grille, and then there were shapes strongly implying the other 2/3rds. The spindle just changed it so the whole shape was the grille.

Yes, that's true, but taking out that large center-section that (formerly) split the two halves of the upper and lower spindle made a big difference in the visual perception. Note the difference, for example, between the 2015 ES and 2018 ES.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

The F Sport looks much better indeed. Shame you can't get any of the luxury features on it.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Yes, that's true, but taking out that large center-section that (formerly) split the two halves of the upper and lower spindle made a big difference in the visual perception. Note the difference, for example, between the 2015 ES and 2018 ES.

Agreed in the big change it makes, but to me now the 2015 looks like a spindle wearing a band-aid

 

[PeterF]

The F Sport looks much better indeed. Shame you can't get any of the luxury features on it.

I'm still wondering whether you can't get any luxury features on it. Probably not, but when I went through this lexus chose packages url (sent from lexus) it seemed to let me choose the luxury package with the Fsport ... it may just be a problem with that url because it wasn't a standard build sequence

 

[Gecko]

As much as I love to drive - and drive hard - I can't imagine plunking down $90k on an LS that didn't even have wood grain interior. I think my perfect LS might be the standard car with the interior upgrade package and F-Sport wheels... those I do really love!

I do not care for the front end of the F Sport compared to the standard car, which has that awesome 3D mesh pattern (I know F Sport has a different 3D mesh, but I like the standard one more). Also not a huge fan of how the F Sport doesn't go side-to-side in the grille.