Introducing the All-New 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h

spwolf

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Where did you read this? I do not think this is the case at all... Camry, ES and Avalon all have the same "drag and drop" V6 and 8AT. Gear ratios on the 8AT are the exact same, and they use the exact same ATF. Throttle input/ECT-i could be tuned differently, but I highly doubt that. It is a super smooth and powerful powertrain by itself - no need to make it any better or different for Lexus, IMO.
I am pretty sure quite few of the reviews on either Avalon or Camry TRD were complaining about transmission logic and mentioning how much better it is in Lexus. Maybe I can find them over the weekend, did not have time yet, but I clearly remember it just dont know what car was reviewed.
 

ssun30

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Earlier I commented that my ES300h has a disappointing behavior of constantly turning ICE on and off when the car is stopped even when battery is full. Now I understand it's a feature not flaw: it's warming up the catalytic converter to keep emissions under control and to reduce energy consumption of AC. Now with warmer weather this behavior goes away.

Toyota/Lexus has recently recalled cars affected by the faulty fuel pump issue in China (so it's confirmed this is the same issue as in NA). However, a very important car that's missing on the list is the ES300h, even though the Camry hybrid and Avalon hybrid are recalled. And these three are known to be the most affected model. Why Lexus has not issued recall for the ESh despite knowing the problem (and there are plenty of complaints now, so I'm not an isolated case) is still unknown.

The A25A/B-FXS engine is also having oil dilution problem that almost took down Honda in 2018. Like Honda did back then, Toyota insists this is an inherent design and should not affect reliability so no fix is required. Only time will tell if this amounts to a PR disaster on next year's 315 Consumer Rights Day.
 

shizhi

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Earlier I commented that my ES300h has a disappointing behavior of constantly turning ICE on and off when the car is stopped even when battery is full. Now I understand it's a feature not flaw: it's warming up the catalytic converter to keep emissions under control and to reduce energy consumption of AC. Now with warmer weather this behavior goes away.

Toyota/Lexus has recently recalled cars affected by the faulty fuel pump issue in China (so it's confirmed this is the same issue as in NA). However, a very important car that's missing on the list is the ES300h, even though the Camry hybrid and Avalon hybrid are recalled. And these three are known to be the most affected model. Why Lexus has not issued recall for the ESh despite knowing the problem (and there are plenty of complaints now, so I'm not an isolated case) is still unknown.

The A25A/B-FXS engine is also having oil dilution problem that almost took down Honda in 2018. Like Honda did back then, Toyota insists this is an inherent design and should not affect reliability so no fix is required. Only time will tell if this amounts to a PR disaster on next year's 315 Consumer Rights Day.
本代凯美瑞混动、亚洲龙混动没有被召回,我建议你重新翻看召回公告。
TNGA Camry hybrid and Avalon hybrid are not on the fuel pump recall list.
 
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LexsCTJill

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Below was my answer to the 3-motor hybrid question in the discussion about the Venza:
So you are really into hybrids, far more than my household...do you keep up with the competitors? Why is Hyundai not using a power split set up in their new Sonota hybrid? They stuck with a 6 speed auto.
 
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ssun30

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So you are really into hybrids, far more than my household...do you keep up with the competitors? Why is Hyundai not using a power split set up in their new Sonota hybrid? They stuck with a 6 speed auto.
Because Toyota used to own all patents to input-split PSDs. Before 2018 all manufacturers have to license from them or buy complete Denso units. Even though the patents have expired, Toyota have built a high enough barrier to entry so nobody can build a better PSD than them. Therefore most spent their R&D effort on the P2 layout which uses a single MG coupled to a mechanical transmission. There are many hybrid setups each with their pros and cons. Input-split PSD is just the most balanced system but not superior in all criteria.
 

spwolf

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Because Toyota used to own all patents to input-split PSDs. Before 2018 all manufacturers have to license from them or buy complete Denso units. Even though the patents have expired, Toyota have built a high enough barrier to entry so nobody can build a better PSD than them. Therefore most spent their R&D effort on the P2 layout which uses a single MG coupled to a mechanical transmission. There are many hybrid setups each with their pros and cons. Input-split PSD is just the most balanced system but not superior in all criteria.
it is probably also the most expensive one, hence only Ford using it. Rest do not sell anywhere close to the same amount of units to make it profitable.
 

Sulu

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it is probably also the most expensive one, hence only Ford using it. Rest do not sell anywhere close to the same amount of units to make it profitable.
Ford's hybrid system (especially their early ones, when they bought their PSD from Aisin) is essentially the same as Toyota's system.

GM (initially in the Volt) and Fiat-Chrysler (in the Pacifica Hybrid) also use a 2-motor, planetary gear system PSD.
 

Sulu

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So you are really into hybrids, far more than my household...do you keep up with the competitors? Why is Hyundai not using a power split set up in their new Sonota hybrid? They stuck with a 6 speed auto.
I can only speculate as to why Hyundai chose to go with the simple, 1-motor parallel hybrid, rather than a 2-motor, serial-parallel, power-split device hybrid system.

The main reason is probably technical simplicity. Sandwiching an electric motor between the engine and the traditional mechanical, stepped-gear transmission is much simpler in concept than designing a completely new PSD transmission. This approach may lessen the number of different parts and components in a vehicle such as the Sonata, which is available in hybrid and non-hybrid models, if a large number of transmission components can be shared amongst all Sonata models.

The other reason may be patent-related, as was already suggested. When Ford introduced its first hybrid vehicle, the 2005 Escape Hybrid, Ford decided to pre-emptively license Toyota's hybrid system (and even buy its first PSD transmissions from long-time Toyota supplier and family member, Aisin), even though Ford said at the time that their design was a result of their own research and not a copy of Toyota's system; Ford did so to prevent Toyota from suing for patent infringement.

As of last year, however, Toyota has decided to offer free access to its hybrid vehicle patents.


There are other hybrid vehicle patents, and Toyota and Ford, and subsequently Hyundai-Kia itself, have been sued for infringing those patents by Paice, an American company that holds a number of hybrid vehicle patents (but does not build any hybrid vehicles or components itself). Paice, backed by its financial backer Abell Foundation, has aggressively pursued lawsuits (in the USA) against quite a number of automakers (Toyota, Ford, Hyundai-Kia, Honda, threatened BMW) that sell hybrid-electric vehicles in the USA (even though Paice merely holds these patents and does not use them), forcing the defendants to license Paice's technology. To me, this seems like a uniquely American problem.
 

Sulu

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So you are really into hybrids, far more than my household...do you keep up with the competitors? Why is Hyundai not using a power split set up in their new Sonota hybrid? They stuck with a 6 speed auto.
I can only speculate as to why Hyundai chose to go with the simple, 1-motor parallel hybrid, rather than a 2-motor, serial-parallel, power-split device hybrid system.

The main reason is probably technical simplicity. Sandwiching an electric motor between the engine and the traditional mechanical, stepped-gear transmission is much simpler in concept than designing a completely new PSD transmission. This approach may lessen the number of different parts and components in a vehicle such as the Sonata, which is available in hybrid and non-hybrid models, if a large number of transmission components can be shared amongst all Sonata models.

The other reason may be patent-related, as was already suggested. When Ford introduced its first hybrid vehicle, the 2005 Escape Hybrid, Ford decided to pre-emptively license Toyota's hybrid system (and even buy its first PSD transmissions from long-time Toyota supplier and family member, Aisin), even though Ford said at the time that their design was a result of their own research and not a copy of Toyota's system; Ford did so to prevent Toyota from suing for patent infringement.

As of last year, however, Toyota has decided to offer free access to its hybrid vehicle patents.


There are other hybrid vehicle patents, and Toyota and Ford, and subsequently Hyundai-Kia itself, have been sued for infringing those patents by Paice, an American company that holds a number of hybrid vehicle patents (but does not build any hybrid vehicles or components itself). Paice, backed by its financial backer Abell Foundation, has aggressively pursued lawsuits (in the USA) against quite a number of automakers (Toyota, Ford, Hyundai-Kia, Honda, threatened BMW) that sell hybrid-electric vehicles in the USA (even though Paice merely holds these patents and does not use them), forcing the defendants to license Paice's technology. To me, this seems like a uniquely American problem.
 

LexsCTJill

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I can only speculate as to why Hyundai chose to go with the simple, 1-motor parallel hybrid, rather than a 2-motor, serial-parallel, power-split device hybrid system.

The main reason is probably technical simplicity. Sandwiching an electric motor between the engine and the traditional mechanical, stepped-gear transmission is much simpler in concept than designing a completely new PSD transmission. This approach may lessen the number of different parts and components in a vehicle such as the Sonata, which is available in hybrid and non-hybrid models, if a large number of transmission components can be shared amongst all Sonata models.

The other reason may be patent-related, as was already suggested. When Ford introduced its first hybrid vehicle, the 2005 Escape Hybrid, Ford decided to pre-emptively license Toyota's hybrid system (and even buy its first PSD transmissions from long-time Toyota supplier and family member, Aisin), even though Ford said at the time that their design was a result of their own research and not a copy of Toyota's system; Ford did so to prevent Toyota from suing for patent infringement.

As of last year, however, Toyota has decided to offer free access to its hybrid vehicle patents.


There are other hybrid vehicle patents, and Toyota and Ford, and subsequently Hyundai-Kia itself, have been sued for infringing those patents by Paice, an American company that holds a number of hybrid vehicle patents (but does not build any hybrid vehicles or components itself). Paice, backed by its financial backer Abell Foundation, has aggressively pursued lawsuits (in the USA) against quite a number of automakers (Toyota, Ford, Hyundai-Kia, Honda, threatened BMW) that sell hybrid-electric vehicles in the USA (even though Paice merely holds these patents and does not use them), forcing the defendants to license Paice's technology. To me, this seems like a uniquely American problem.
Thanks @Sulu. Interesting information you provided.
 
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