Definitely the Autonews article is the better article, but I got beat to it.
Regardless of what journos think, there's still buyers out there that want a sedan with three pedals, much like those who still desire a great V6. Glad that both cars offer something that certain buyers still want, since V6s and 6 speeds in family sedans are rarer.
Toyota is doing something right since they know the market isn't getting bigger now, so they've doing everything to capture those buyers still in market for a sedan. I've always felt that the Camry was well received when we first saw it introduced in Detroit last year; the mainstream media proclaimed the Camry's new styling was no longer 'boring', and that to me resonates with the current state of sedan buyers. When we first saw the new Accord the past summer, we all thought we were staring at a Chevy Impala clone.
But either way, the point is that your average Joe Schmoe walking into either dealership is looking at the deal they can get, and all the other things (powertrain/transmission, styling, features) become the secondary considerations. It is apparent which brand is being stubborn. I do agree, a 1.5 Turbo with CVT isn't as appealing to sedan buyers compared to the 2.0L NA 8AT, so that likely pushed many buyers away from the Accord already.
And yes, Honda dealers in the USA have been known to be jerks...
The manual is a unique selling point yes.
Also, Honda arrogance extends far beyond just the dealers, as it goes right to the heart of top executives in Japan headquarters.
I don't know if the turbos make people less inclined to buy the Accord; it's not like people stop buying CR-Vs because they have turbo+CVT. What I know for sure is turbo adds cost, A LOT.
Except CR-V buyers are not forced to get the turbo. The CR-V is also available with a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder. With the new Accord though, buyers are forced to get a turbo engine. You don't have a choice. Either engine choice on the Accord is still turbo.
I dont think they are confused really, they just have to drive one to see why. Whole point of TNGA was to be able to re-invest into better equipment and driveability, which they did here.
I assume 2-3 competitors will drop off from the sedan competition in the US in the future, as these prices are heavily dependent on the volume and idling factories are very expensive... this will give a boost to vehicles that remain or at least stop drop of sales, at some point, for remaining vehicles.
But since I have been around forums for 15+ years, I find it funny looking at the list here and how Camry performs against cars like Sonata and even Malibu and Fusion.. if we look back 5-6 years ago, media was pushing stories about the death of Camry due to Sonata and other cars (Accord did not have same stories), and it just tells you how out of touch these media writers are.
We have many posters on forums asking 5-6 years ago if Camry is dead because something was cheaper $500 or had 8hp more or had 1" bigger screen.
In fact, reminds me about stories on (other) forums about Lexus and always doom and gloom because every single Lexus vehicle is not #1 in sales or something, and it the end, we have always expanding Lexus lineup while Acura and Infiniti are barely surviving, and record worldwide sales.
It is dangerous to take what the media says too seriously, because much of the media is sadly very out of touch with reality.
And too, at the end of the day, its a Camry so people KNOW they're making a solid choice. I don't think many people - especially in our lease-happy society - focus too much on reliability of turbos and CVTs... many folks don't even know or ask what the differences are. Plus, most people trust Honda reliability. However, the Camry just hits on all of the notes above and it's priced right.
Yes and no. While leasing is a big deal in North America currently, traditionally Toyota buyers are less likely to lease than buyers of other brands. Toyota customers typically are more likely to finance or buy than to simply lease. Also even in the current times, many Toyota buyers still highly value and cherish reliability. That is why many of them are Toyota buyers in the first place. Honda buyers are also known to lease less than buyers of other brands. Also the consumer perception for Honda may be slowly changing, as major industry barometers like JD Power and Consumer Reports have shown Honda to be only average (or worse) in terms of reliability over the last few years. If this trend continues consistently, then more consumers will certainly alter their perception of Honda reliability.
The Camry's current aggressive lease deals do get a lot of people in the door, even if they're not all planning to lease.
Here's a video review of the XSE I was just checking out. The interior looks fantastic lit up at night, and he really loves how it handles.
Yeah, looks like pretty much every single interior button is lit up at night. That's attention to detail customers appreciate. Can't say the same about some current Toyota products, much less many competitors. Try driving some previous generation Hondas from the last 10 years or so. Many of them have interiors where barely half the interior buttons are light up at night.
I have heard rumors that AWD is definitely coming to the Avalon and possibly the Camry. Sounds a little far fetched but I've heard it from two different people now.
I will say that if there is an AWD V6 Camry offering, my LS will be finding a new home. Just not sure if I'd go XSE or XLE.
Wow! If true, that would be the nail in the coffin for a lot of competitors. If it's the new torque vectoring AWD that's rumored, then if true this will keep Honda executives and engineers up at night.
Post-depression Toyota was indeed a mess: it had the biggest scandal in corporate history (sticky throttle), their product portfolio was unappealing and as a result their buyer demographics were aging. The XV40/50 generation Camrys were the epitome of beige-mobile and deserve all the criticism you've mentioned. Competitors got the message and concluded that they can also get away with making bad, bland cars and as a result every mid-size family sedan made in late-2000s/early-2010s are very undesirable but people back then didn't care because beggars can't be choosers. The media saw the death of the Camry because there were other bad cars that were cheaper.
Now with the crossover boom a sedan needs quality in every aspect to convince buyers to stay with a sedan. The XV70 delivers quality thanks to the cost reduction enabled by TNGA. When something with quality appears in a market previously filled by undesirable products, there's no wonder it will dominate. Honda thought the same and step up the quality game even more, but if they couldn't achieve the same level of cost control, the Accord could not dethrone the Camry although it will still be the #2 most desirable sedan in the segment.
Just curious, have you ever actually driven the XV40 or XV50 Camry sedans? Or do you simply accept everything the media says? What you're saying here is factually, absolutely flat out
incorrect. Regardless of whether you personally like them or not, or if the media likes them or not, the XV40 and XV50 Camry models were (and are) very good vehicles. Now admittedly the XV40 did suffer some visible cost-cutting but it was not an objectively bad car. Even as one of the weaker Camry generations, the XV40 still is objectively a pretty good car. The XV50 is objectively a very good car, especially the refreshed XV50. I've driven all of them, so I know.
Yeah. While both Toyota and Lexus in the mid-to-late 2000s were bland, they *did* sell a lot of 'em, and XV40s are still common on the road.
Not sure how it is in the States, but you should come and see up here in Canada. XV10s, XV20s, and XV30s are all still fairly common on the roads here (as far as sedans go), not even mentioning the more modern generations.
