Honda Struggles to Sell 2018 Accords

[Gecko]

2018 Honda Accord struggles to move units
Widespread accolades, but dealers cite uncompetitive lease terms

The 2018 Honda Accord boasts sleek new fastback styling, improved ride and interior, higher fuel efficiency, and a bevy of awards and plaudits from the automotive press, but the reigning North American Car of the Year is not exactly lighting it up on dealer lots.

In February, sales of the Accord were down 15.8 percent from the year before and 14.7 percent year-to-date. Automotive News reports that inventory levels stood at a 104-day supply — high by dealership standards — and that some dealerships have even begun turning down shipments of the midsize sedan from the factory in Marysville, Ohio. They're blaming a lack of attractive leasing options for consumers.

At $24,460 with shipping, the 2018 Accord is priced higher than its predecessor, meaning higher monthly lease payments for return customers. A standard three-year lease for the base LX trim version brings a monthly $249 payment after plunking down $3,199. By comparison, you can lease a Toyota Camry for just $199 a month in Miami for a similar down payment, or $219 a month in Los Angeles with $1,999 down.
One Detroit-area Honda dealer said the quality of the new Accord doesn't seal the deal with consumers looking to lease for only a few years.

"The quality gap has narrowed between the domestics, Honda and Toyota," the dealer told Automotive News. "When you're buying a car, you have a great story to tell a customer. When you're leasing, they say, 'Well, it has at least three years of warranty on it.' They're just renting it anyway. It is an uphill battle."

The Accord is also competing in a tough segment, as U.S. buyers increasingly shun sedans for larger crossovers, SUVs and pickups.

Now in its 10th generation, the Accord moved from a V6 to two direct-injection, turbocharged four-cylinder engine options, plus a two-mode hybrid system.

Source: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/12/2018-honda-accord-slow-sales/

 

[Tragic Bronson]

2018 Honda Accord struggles to move units
Widespread accolades, but dealers cite uncompetitive lease terms

The 2018 Honda Accord boasts sleek new fastback styling, improved ride and interior, higher fuel efficiency, and a bevy of awards and plaudits from the automotive press, but the reigning North American Car of the Year is not exactly lighting it up on dealer lots.

In February, sales of the Accord were down 15.8 percent from the year before and 14.7 percent year-to-date. Automotive News reports that inventory levels stood at a 104-day supply — high by dealership standards — and that some dealerships have even begun turning down shipments of the midsize sedan from the factory in Marysville, Ohio. They're blaming a lack of attractive leasing options for consumers.

At $24,460 with shipping, the 2018 Accord is priced higher than its predecessor, meaning higher monthly lease payments for return customers. A standard three-year lease for the base LX trim version brings a monthly $249 payment after plunking down $3,199. By comparison, you can lease a Toyota Camry for just $199 a month in Miami for a similar down payment, or $219 a month in Los Angeles with $1,999 down.
One Detroit-area Honda dealer said the quality of the new Accord doesn't seal the deal with consumers looking to lease for only a few years.

"The quality gap has narrowed between the domestics, Honda and Toyota," the dealer told Automotive News. "When you're buying a car, you have a great story to tell a customer. When you're leasing, they say, 'Well, it has at least three years of warranty on it.' They're just renting it anyway. It is an uphill battle."

The Accord is also competing in a tough segment, as U.S. buyers increasingly shun sedans for larger crossovers, SUVs and pickups.

Now in its 10th generation, the Accord moved from a V6 to two direct-injection, turbocharged four-cylinder engine options, plus a two-mode hybrid system.

Source: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/12/2018-honda-accord-slow-sales/

Camry is killing it with its deals, while Honda dealers are left to dry with not much incentives from the factory to compete...not to mention they're on the ugly side.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I'm seeing more and more new Camrys on the road, and no new Accords. It probably helps that this is one race where Toyota is the clear winner on engine choice.

 

[ssun30]

The Camry deals are too cheap to be true. There's literally no point leasing any other sedan when there's a $199/mo Camry. I wonder if Honda is preparing an anti-competitive complaint against Toyota. But how does a court determine whether certain lease deals are dumping or not?

 

[mikeavelli]

Honestly all these years I never believe the no incentives crap. Anyone can turn on the TV or go to a local Honda dealer and they have the same deals as everyone. 0 down, low leases etc... I do agree they limit rental fleets.

I think they had a huge miss on the styling. I've seen a few now and the front looks SUVish and the rear looks super odd.

And I know its not a huge bucket but they did drop the coupe and the V-6.

Another thing I find is how it seems the Accord buyer is getting older and older and Toyota has gotten younger with their new styling and SE variants..

 

[bogglo]

Seeing the camry in person for the first time I was like that's the car that took the good looks of the 3GS. As for the Honda I have only seen one new accord and the civic is a better looking car. I wont be surprised if the previous accord is still selling more than this new one.

 

[Gecko]

Honestly, I have been tempted to trade in the LS 430 and get a Camry XLE or XSE V6, but I'm not sure I want to go back to FWD. New Camry has been really solid all the way around!

 

[CIF]

Not surprised, but the article conveniently left out the two elephants in the room with regards to the new Accord. The styling and the engine choices. Pricing and lease deals have a part to play, but if consumers really loved the vehicle, many would still be willing to pay a premium for it.

In real life, I think the new Accord does look awkward or ugly to a lot of people firstly. It's no longer vanilla or inoffensive. In a major market segment like the midsize sedan market, I think was a risky move, and it's playing out now. Secondly, no more V6 for the top engine option. I think this also possibly may have been a risky move. Honda will probably never share the data of how many buyers they are losing due to no V6, but I think it's noticeable combined with the other problems associated with this new Accord.

 

[bogglo]

Honestly, I have been tempted to trade in the LS 430 and get a Camry XLE or XSE V6, but I'm not sure I want to go back to FWD. New Camry has been really solid all the way around!

you hit the nail on the head. the FWD is what wont make me own one personally and am sure there are many people in that boat too. If Lexus can make an ES look that good or better with an AWD then they have a winner.

 

[bogglo]

 

[spwolf]

Honestly, I have been tempted to trade in the LS 430 and get a Camry XLE or XSE V6, but I'm not sure I want to go back to FWD. New Camry has been really solid all the way around!

did you test it out, how was it? We might get Camry in Europe instead of Avensis.

 

[spwolf]

Not surprised, but the article conveniently left out the two elephants in the room with regards to the new Accord. The styling and the engine choices. Pricing and lease deals have a part to play, but if consumers really loved the vehicle, many would still be willing to pay a premium for it.

In real life, I think the new Accord does look awkward or ugly to a lot of people firstly. It's no longer vanilla or inoffensive. In a major market segment like the midsize sedan market, I think was a risky move, and it's playing out now. Secondly, no more V6 for the top engine option. I think this also possibly may have been a risky move. Honda will probably never share the data of how many buyers they are losing due to no V6, but I think it's noticeable combined with the other problems associated with this new Accord.

I think biggest problem is 1.5t and CVT.

Toyota has said that V6 Camry is 8% of the sales. So top engine choice is this segment is not really that important.

Accord likely has huge share of base engine, since hybrid is pretty expensive too, so a large amount of customers might be testing competition like Camry, and liking 2.5l + 8AT a lot better than 1.5t + CVT.

It is also a perception thing, which is why Toyota never offered 1.2t in the USA. Average buyer is not used to small turbos so they consider it as cost cutting and possibly future reliability issue ("Is it too small engine for this car?").

 

[Tragic Bronson]

I'm seeing more and more new Camrys on the road, and no new Accords. It probably helps that this is one race where Toyota is the clear winner on engine choice.

I think its a lot of different factors, but mainly the price as that is what most people shop on primarily. The CVT was something that turned off some buyers on the Accord before, but it wasn't a huge dealbreaker; but the smaller turbo with the CVT is making a lot of buyers hesitate on the long run. Of course, the styling is also turning out to be a huge detriment on Honda's part, though I think the cabin and the infotainment system (Carplay/Android Auto) is probably what sways some buyers. The Accord is still sportier, but that isn't helping it against the Camry.

By being pricier, it makes the Camry's packaging (PRICE, styling, powertrain) a lot easier for regular car buyers to decide on.

 

[CIF]

I think biggest problem is 1.5t and CVT.

Toyota has said that V6 Camry is 8% of the sales. So top engine choice is this segment is not really that important.

Accord likely has huge share of base engine, since hybrid is pretty expensive too, so a large amount of customers might be testing competition like Camry, and liking 2.5l + 8AT a lot better than 1.5t + CVT.

It is also a perception thing, which is why Toyota never offered 1.2t in the USA. Average buyer is not used to small turbos so they consider it as cost cutting and possibly future reliability issue ("Is it too small engine for this car?").

Toyota found it important enough though to keep the V6 for the Camry. It's not just about sales too; it's about the halo effect of the V6 option. It makes many 4 cylinder Camry buyers aspire to the V6 even if they don't actually buy it.

Otherwise I agree. With the Accord your only options are a 4 cylinder turbo with CVT...or a bigger 4 cylinder turbo with 10 speed auto. Not very inspirational choices.

Yes I agree for overall perception, Accord's options are bad. North American buyers perceive CVTs (and small turbo engines) poorly in larger vehicles, and the turbo engines on the Accord will inevitably have more maintenance, and likely will be less reliable than the more simple naturally aspirated engines on the Camry. I agree with Toyota's overall strategy here. Toyota in this case is more attuned to what North American customers like and want. I agree with Toyota's strategy of using a CVT only on small gas models like the Corolla and CH-R, and using traditional automatics on all larger non-hybrid vehicles.

Also lets not forget in real world driving, naturally aspirated engines have superior throttle response and most of the time better passing performance at various speeds compared to turbo engines. Especially in this case, with the majority of Accords being CVT, and that 10-speed apparently being a fussy transmission. In really hard or aggressive city driving, I am sure the turbo lag on the Accord will become to become quite noticeable. It's probably already been noticed by customers out on test drives of the new Accord.

I think its a lot of different factors, but mainly the price as that is what most people shop on primarily. The CVT was something that turned off some buyers on the Accord before, but it wasn't a huge dealbreaker; but the smaller turbo with the CVT is making a lot of buyers hesitate on the long run. Of course, the styling is also turning out to be a huge detriment on Honda's part, though I think the cabin and the infotainment system (Carplay/Android Auto) is probably what sways some buyers. The Accord is still sportier, but that isn't helping it against the Camry.

By being pricier, it makes the Camry's packaging (PRICE, styling, powertrain) a lot easier for regular car buyers to decide on.

Compared to the Camry XSE V6, no the Accord is not sportier. The Camry XSE V6 with its quad exhaust, 300+ HP 3.5L V6, and sport suspension manages to out-sport all Accord trims now. Biased journalists and Honda fans can no longer claim the Accord is the sportiest, as this time Toyota outdid the Accord in sportiness.

Overall this situation is also a perfect example that media accolades, and journalistic wins matter extremely little out in the real world. In the real world, all that matters is how actual customers view and gauge your product. So far, it's not looking so hot for the Accord in the marketplace.

I also should emphasize that Toyota deserves special credit and respect for the fact that Camry sales remain hot in a declining segment. So that means the Camry is now grabbing a bigger share of the midsize sedan market. The very strong market trend towards CUVs and SUVs continues with no signs of stopping, so Toyota should be commended for this achievement. Some Honda fans might argue that the Accord has a lower fleet sales share than the Camry, but that is sour grapes at this point. In a declining market segment, you take whatever sales you can get. In a declining segment, a fleet sale is still better than no sale at all. Furthermore, the Camry's fleet share does not exceed 10%. So the vast majority of sales are still pure retail.

 

[CIF]

I also don't want to beat a dead horse of a discussion, but this new Accord is also a perfect example of Honda's stubbornness. Impartial and unbiased observers have known for a very long time now how stubborn and arrogant Honda is. Honda does what it thinks is right, even when it's often wrong.

Now yes Honda did make some improvements over the previous-gen Accord, but at the same time made several diminishments and regressions from the previous-gen. Honda's Acura brand took a considerable reputation hit with the "beak" grilles which did not help sales and were mostly hated by consumers. Instead of learning from that experience, Honda bestowed awkward and arguably ugly styling on this new Accord. This is styling that most Accord buyers weren't asking for. Most Honda and Accord buyers were not asking for turbo engines across the board, but Honda did it anyways with the new Accord. For many many years, consumers (and dealers) have requested better deals and some more flexibility from Honda when it comes to market realities. Honda has never changed, and has remained very rigid on pricing and market flexibility. I'm pretty sure most Honda and Accord buyers didn't ask for a more expensive Accord, but Honda did it anyways. Base MSRP on the Accord is about $1000 more now than the base MSRP on the Camry.

I understand what mikeavelli said regarding Honda dealers usually having deals, but that's often not true, at least up here in Canada. I've heard of too many experiences from friends and others about many Honda dealers being very rigid about pricing. Now yes if you're lucky, you can find a Honda dealer offering some great specials. This just isn't consistent across the board though.

Also here is the original, much more informative story from Automotive News that Autoblog linked from http://www.autonews.com/article/20180312/RETAIL01/180319967/honda-accord-sales-redesign

Some great tidbits here, such as the Detroit area having a 200 day supply of Accords. That is completely bonkers and outrageous.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

Compared to the Camry XSE V6, no the Accord is not sportier. The Camry XSE V6 with its quad exhaust, 300+ HP 3.5L V6, and sport suspension manages to out-sport all Accord trims now. Biased journalists and Honda fans can no longer claim the Accord is the sportiest, as this time Toyota outdid the Accord in sportiness.

Overall this situation is also a perfect example that media accolades, and journalistic wins matter extremely little out in the real world. In the real world, all that matters is how actual customers view and gauge your product. So far, it's not looking so hot for the Accord in the marketplace.

I also should emphasize that Toyota deserves special credit and respect for the fact that Camry sales remain hot in a declining segment. So that means the Camry is now grabbing a bigger share of the midsize sedan market. The very strong market trend towards CUVs and SUVs continues with no signs of stopping, so Toyota should be commended for this achievement. Some Honda fans might argue that the Accord has a lower fleet sales share than the Camry, but that is sour grapes at this point. In a declining market segment, you take whatever sales you can get. In a declining segment, a fleet sale is still better than no sale at all. Furthermore, the Camry's fleet share does not exceed 10%. So the vast majority of sales are still pure retail.

Definitely the Autonews article is the better article, but I got beat to it.

Regardless of what journos think, there's still buyers out there that want a sedan with three pedals, much like those who still desire a great V6. Glad that both cars offer something that certain buyers still want, since V6s and 6 speeds in family sedans are rarer.

Toyota is doing something right since they know the market isn't getting bigger now, so they've doing everything to capture those buyers still in market for a sedan. I've always felt that the Camry was well received when we first saw it introduced in Detroit last year; the mainstream media proclaimed the Camry's new styling was no longer 'boring', and that to me resonates with the current state of sedan buyers. When we first saw the new Accord the past summer, we all thought we were staring at a Chevy Impala clone.

But either way, the point is that your average Joe Schmoe walking into either dealership is looking at the deal they can get, and all the other things (powertrain/transmission, styling, features) become the secondary considerations. It is apparent which brand is being stubborn. I do agree, a 1.5 Turbo with CVT isn't as appealing to sedan buyers compared to the 2.0L NA 8AT, so that likely pushed many buyers away from the Accord already.

And yes, Honda dealers in the USA have been known to be jerks...

 

[spwolf]

I believe Camry always had better deals and was always slightly cheaper than Accord. I think main difference from before is that a. sedan market is shrinking fast, b. Camry is much better competitor so that customers cant justify premium vs Accord.

If the check the chart, we can see devastating effect of SUVs on sedans, from Feb 2018 vs 2017 (and this has been happening for years!).

It is very questionable if there is any sense in offering Sonata, Optima and Passat in USA anymore, but Fusion and Malibu are not far off either. I bet deals on these older cars are crazy.

 

[ssun30]

Wow, now competitors will look in utter confusion how the heck Camry managed to increase sales in the sedan-apocalypse. It can be TNGA's magic cost cutting, but the new Camry doesn't really cost significantly less than before. If competitors decide to quit altogether Toyota might as well have this shrinking segment all by itself.

I don't know if the turbos make people less inclined to buy the Accord; it's not like people stop buying CR-Vs because they have turbo+CVT. What I know for sure is turbo adds cost, A LOT.

 

[spwolf]

Wow, now competitors will look in utter confusion how the heck Camry managed to increase sales in the sedan-apocalypse. It can be TNGA's magic cost cutting, but the new Camry doesn't really cost significantly less than before. If competitors decide to quit altogether Toyota might as well have this shrinking segment all by itself.

I don't know if the turbos make people less inclined to buy the Accord; it's not like people stop buying CR-Vs because they have turbo+CVT. What I know for sure is turbo adds cost, A LOT.

I dont think they are confused really, they just have to drive one to see why. Whole point of TNGA was to be able to re-invest into better equipment and driveability, which they did here.

I assume 2-3 competitors will drop off from the sedan competition in the US in the future, as these prices are heavily dependent on the volume and idling factories are very expensive... this will give a boost to vehicles that remain or at least stop drop of sales, at some point, for remaining vehicles.


But since I have been around forums for 15+ years, I find it funny looking at the list here and how Camry performs against cars like Sonata and even Malibu and Fusion.. if we look back 5-6 years ago, media was pushing stories about the death of Camry due to Sonata and other cars (Accord did not have same stories), and it just tells you how out of touch these media writers are.

We have many posters on forums asking 5-6 years ago if Camry is dead because something was cheaper $500 or had 8hp more or had 1" bigger screen.

In fact, reminds me about stories on (other) forums about Lexus and always doom and gloom because every single Lexus vehicle is not #1 in sales or something, and it the end, we have always expanding Lexus lineup while Acura and Infiniti are barely surviving, and record worldwide sales.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

I believe Camry always had better deals and was always slightly cheaper than Accord. I think main difference from before is that a. sedan market is shrinking fast, b. Camry is much better competitor so that customers cant justify premium vs Accord.

If the check the chart, we can see devastating effect of SUVs on sedans, from Feb 2018 vs 2017 (and this has been happening for years!).

It is very questionable if there is any sense in offering Sonata, Optima and Passat in USA anymore, but Fusion and Malibu are not far off either. I bet deals on these older cars are crazy.

For Toyota and Honda, they still have the majority of sedan buyers and will be the last to leave if they ever do so, which I doubt would ever happen. We already know that Ford isn't too crazy on bringing a next generation Fusion here, though Nissan will have an all new Altima to do battle. Not sure what the Koreans will do, since they were very slow to change up their car/SUV mix.