Genesis Emulates Lexus, Wants Its Buyers

[mmcartalk]

This is just small example that Japanese is very lazy and not doing good

What's happening with the Japanese today is essentially the same thing that happened to Mercedes 25 years ago, in the early 1990s, when Lexus and Infiniti first because a real threat to them (yes, Infiniti, back then, was much more of a factor than it is today). Lexus, back then, beat Mercedes at its own game, producing competitive, reliable luxury vehicles at less cost and lower prices. Mercedes was forced to cut back on costs, and the quality and engineering of their vehicles suffered as a result. Today, the Japanese themselves face higher costs, and are in more or less the same boat, with the Koreans producing vehicles that are just as well-made (or better) than the Japanese, at lower costs and prices, though prices on some of those Korean products have admittedly gone up wth their quality.

History may (?), in fact, repeat itself a third time LOL. There are signs that the Koreans may, in a few more years, be undercut by the Chinese, and themselves be forced to cut back on the costs and quality, just like Mercedes did in the 1990s and the Japanese are today.

 

[mikeavelli]

Honestly all Japanese luxury 3 makers are still between napping and deep sleeping

The three brands are Apples and Oranges. Sadly people bunch Lexus with them because they are Japanese but its clear Lexus is far above the other two.

This is just small example that Japanese is very lazy and not doing good

I don't think you would like to be bunched like what you just did with Japanese people. Please don't post anything like that again. And the Japanese are some of the hardest working people on the planet, rarely taking breaks, rarely boasting or bragging and basically working day in and out until they get old.

 

[mmcartalk]

And the Japanese are some of the hardest working people on the planet, rarely taking breaks, rarely boasting or bragging and basically working day in and out until they get old.

In Japan, although this is more so the case with the older generation than with more Westernized younger people, work is traditionally considered a privilege...and companies generally help out by not laying people off unless they have absolutely no other choice. Traditionally, it is not unusual to see workers meet in each other's homes after their own working day is up, discussing and suggesting better ways to get the job done.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I'll take your word for it that the cars are good, but their marketing and image-making is worse than Infiniti. Nobody knows they exist, and those of us that do aren't clear what their animating idea is besides "undercut M-B/BMW/Lexus and make it up in volume".

^^ Thank you @Ian Schmidt. Those have been my thoughts. That has been their sole purpose this entire time. I haven't seen anything in regards to Genesis, and I am someone who pays a lot of attention. If I haven't seen much marketing, then I doubt many others have too.

I can assure you, at least from my perspective, that these cars are no joke. Their hardware, sheet metal, built quality/solidness, fit/finish, road manners, and content are as least as good as (and in some cases, as with hardware and sheet-metal solidness) better than their competition. This is not the 1990s anymore....virtually everything that comes from Hyundai and Kia these days (and Genesis is a Hyundai division) is respectable. Consumer Reports itself now ranks Genesis as its top-rated overall vehicle-brand, even though they don't (as of yet) offer any SUVs in the American market (but one is coming).

I'll be honest, I haven't stepped in a Genesis whatsoever, but even from experience in being involved for so long in the automotive industry as an objective enthusiast, and intuition, and even so, Genesis isn't even close to Lexus. The reason why they have the slightest bit of hype is because everyone wants to see another company emulate another Lexus. They're catching Lexus at a time when they're dormant, and even then their products are an order of magnitude better. Interior styling and infotainment are flawed, but those are the only issues I can think of. No offense, you don't realize what Lexus is capable of.

If I have vented at Lexus, it was because of the ES, but in no damn way will I scoff at anything else Lexus does. I may need to try a Genesis sometime, but they have failed to impress me time and time again from what I hear around me personally. I'm not going to bother and waste time with a product where I get so many comments about how poor they are in reliability, and how dull they are. I've only seen a very select handful of these and they're driven by technology enthusiasts who buy the newest thing on the block.

Consumer Reports is biased media. I don't trust them an ounce. They're really flawed media and hag on the stupidest things. The fact that they rated Genesis as they're overall best brand, it shows their level of bias. Genesis only has two sedans (the G70 wasn't out yet at the time of the evaluation) and it was the overall best brand? Give me a break.

The three brands are Apples and Oranges. Sadly people bunch Lexus with them because they are Japanese but its clear Lexus is far above the other two.

I don't think you would like to be bunched like what you just did with Japanese people. Please don't post anything like that again. And the Japanese are some of the hardest working people on the planet, rarely taking breaks, rarely boasting or bragging and basically working day in and out until they get old.

Honestly though, there is no substitute to Japanese quality. Everything else is a joke compared to them when it comes to genuine quality. Good, genuine materials, extremely powerful rigidity, that feeling of security, comfort like no other, and so many damn things that the Japanese do. That's what they do best, welcoming people and allowing them to feel at home. Not new flashy unreliable technology (yes can you believe it, some people think THAT IS QUALITY, smh), that are slapped in new cars and extremely garbage gimmicks that makes you throw up from being overwhelmed being in a sensory overload.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I agree that their marketing could be better. But I'm also a firm believer that vehicles should sell on their merits, not image. One is buying (or leasing) an actual product, that he or she has to depend on every day to get around in....not some glamour-set of wheels that NFL quarterbacks or Hollywood entertainers are paid big bucks to promote in TV ads.

I believe that too, but the market doesn't purely work that way. There are plenty of people who buy on image, actual merits of the car be damned. I've pointed out before that the Merc GLA is a dumpster fire on wheels according to reviewers but they're selling 50,000 a year simply by telling CamCord buyers that they can get a Mercedes for the same money. Even though the Camry, Accord, and Sonata are better cars.

 

[mmcartalk]

I believe that too, but the market doesn't purely work that way.

Unfortunately, that's often true.

I've pointed out before that the Merc GLA is a dumpster fire on wheels according to reviewers but they're selling 50,000 a year simply by telling CamCord buyers that they can get a Mercedes for the same money.

Remember what P.T. Barnum said..............

 

[Levi]

Many nice comments.

Genesis does have some business environmental differences compared to Lexus back then, so they can't directly go by Lexus' playbook:

• The parent company Hyundai is not yet on Toyota or VW level. Lexus was still built on Toyota's reputation.
  
• The market has changed, cars are now CUVs/SUVs, so compared to hatches/sedans/wagons/coupes/convertibles, the are less body types (=needs) than before. Thus differentiation is only made by means of design which is difficult to crack with the 'safe vs daring' dilemma. More than that a new design identity has to be created, and this takes time.
• With a possible shift, or at least a greater drivetrain diversity, namely BEVs, but also HFCEVs, general design is quite different both inside and outside. One example for current battery powered car is the grill, which is not needed, or in the fuel cell or lithium-air case on the contrary needs huge air intakes, so it is a tougher task to create an identity, so even more difficult when no heritage and little time to build any.
  
• With electrification, and thus no more complex internal combustion engines, there is an unexpected new giant player: China.

Unless customers wake up to the deception of German car makers, which is unlikely, Genesis will have the same fight as Lexus. Before defeating the Germans, Genesis will first have the defeat Lexus, and I see it as difficult as it is for Lexus to defeat the Germans, given the current circumstances. While qualitatively they (Hyundai/Genesis) might have something worth, I find in them nothing appealing and just as boring as most Germans.

 

[mikeavelli]

https://www.tflcar.com/2018/07/genesis-sales-future-dealerships/

Sales for the brand under 1,000 units but it seems they have a situation with their plan and new stand alone dealership execution. Cliffs- starting in 2019 they want the cars sold in stand alone dealerships not Hyundai ones and won't import the cars.

 

[maiaramdan]

Honestly either in stand alone or with Hyundai it's too late in the history of automotive to have another luxury car maker
Honestly Lexus, Infiniti and Acura still have a no history syndrome and they still fighting to take the spot even after nearly 30 years
From my humble view, the best way is Kia's way which is Hyundai own old way when Genesis and Equus was under Hyundai lineup
A pure luxurious, well build, fun to drive rear wheel drive cars sold with nearly the same price range of the normal non luxury, that was working well for Japanese from early 70th to late 90th with Cressida, Corolla, Crown, Celica, Supra, Gloria, Mark, Skyline, GTO, RSX, Q45 and a lot other from all Japanese makers

 

[mmcartalk]

starting in 2019 they want the cars sold in stand alone dealerships not Hyundai ones and won't import the cars.

They will probably be wise not to import any of the vehicles they are going to sell here in the U.S. The tariffs are going to make that simply too expensive a prospect. As I've said before, if auto manufacturers want to keep doing business here, they are probably going to be forced to move production back here...it will actually be cheaper for them to do so in the long run, if tariffs stay in place. The sooner they get started on plans for that, the better.

 

[maiaramdan]

I don't think you would like to be bunched like what you just did with Japanese people. Please don't post anything like that again. And the Japanese are some of the hardest working people on the planet, rarely taking breaks, rarely boasting or bragging and basically working day in and out until they get old.

Wow, you understood this very wrong, of course in Japanese I only meant the decision makers in those specific 3 companies, I never thought I might be understood this wrong way, and by lazy I meant that they are not taking it fast in comparison with the Europeans, that's all

Sir, I never bought or had anything except Japanese stuff from home appliances to electronics to automotive and I am really sorry you understood it that way, I was again talking about the slow decisions for the 3 makers that let them in their own current situation,

That said, I honestly see all of them as apples or oranges not apples and oranges, because this was the first targets of all the 3, Infiniti with its amazing Q45 that until now, did not hear any logical explanation why the killed it, same goes with Acura in comparison what it was in 90th and what it is now

 

[mikeavelli]

Honestly either in stand alone or with Hyundai it's too late in the history of automotive to have another luxury car maker
Honestly Lexus, Infiniti and Acura still have a no history syndrome and they still fighting to take the spot even after nearly 30 years
From my humble view, the best way is Kia's way which is Hyundai own old way when Genesis and Equus was under Hyundai lineup
A pure luxurious, well build, fun to drive rear wheel drive cars sold with nearly the same price range of the normal non luxury, that was working well for Japanese from early 70th to late 90th with Cressida, Corolla, Crown, Celica, Supra, Gloria, Mark, Skyline, GTO, RSX, Q45 and a lot other from all Japanese makers

I would not bunch Lexus in with Infiniti or Acura at all. Lexus is the fourth best selling luxury brand worldwide and seen as a Tier 1 competitor.

 

[F1 Silver Arrows]

I would not bunch Lexus in with Infiniti or Acura at all. Lexus is the fourth best selling luxury brand worldwide and seen as a Tier 1 competitor.

Thank you. :waving::waving::waving::waving::waving::waving:

There is a reason why I only see Lexus vehicles just as much as Mercedes-Benz/BMW/Audi. I see Infiniti's a bit too, but not near as often as the top four. Acura is just ?????? Genesis is virtually nonexistent, and the other "luxury" brands that come from the USA are irrelevant too. They're only there to bring the numbers at the rear, not much else.

 

[maiaramdan]

But don't try to hide that in Europe Lexus not having the same power as USA because in part they still see it without heritage as the Germans

Lexus need to be more European and with mixed European heritage to go from 4th world wide to maybe even 1st