Kelvin2020
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What is this??
Future of the Lexus LS Megathread (LS Family of Flagships)
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What is this??
They said it was a LS Coupe.
Gecko
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I've had a little time to think this through and I think I actually like where Lexus is going here.
Having the LS Concept van launch as the "flagship" of the new LS ethos actually makes sense to me. Redefining "LS" to mean "luxury space" instead of "luxury sedan" is probably best done in the most literal, most grand sense: an oversized, uber luxury van with mega levels of space, detail, and craftsmanship - it is the most literal, obvious definition of "luxury space."
Most of the release focuses on this redefinition of LS, but Lexus does clearly state that the future of LS is a family of vehicles because luxury means different things to different buyers. The backdrop for all of this is the decline of the sedan market and retiring Lexus' most storied, sacred model which I'm sure wasn't taken lightly.
The LS concept with the closest line to production is probably the LS Coupe Concept... and in many ways, it's the "LS" all of us have been asking for: a four-door coupe-esque CUV built to an "LS" standard. An updated take on the LF-1, even if not as good looking here:
While the LF-1 never made it to production, there is no denying that this form factor has the most universal appeal and is the logical choice for whatever Lexus wants to consider their next global flagship. While I think the house, catamaran, hub, micro/wheelchair, and drone are too conceptual to mean anything, I think the LS Coupe Concept along with the LS Concept mean something tangible.
I *think* Lexus is looking at a future where "LS" is many things and an "LS" model will be the flagship of it's body style within the lineup. Examples:
Having the LS Concept van launch as the "flagship" of the new LS ethos actually makes sense to me. Redefining "LS" to mean "luxury space" instead of "luxury sedan" is probably best done in the most literal, most grand sense: an oversized, uber luxury van with mega levels of space, detail, and craftsmanship - it is the most literal, obvious definition of "luxury space."
Most of the release focuses on this redefinition of LS, but Lexus does clearly state that the future of LS is a family of vehicles because luxury means different things to different buyers. The backdrop for all of this is the decline of the sedan market and retiring Lexus' most storied, sacred model which I'm sure wasn't taken lightly.
The LS concept with the closest line to production is probably the LS Coupe Concept... and in many ways, it's the "LS" all of us have been asking for: a four-door coupe-esque CUV built to an "LS" standard. An updated take on the LF-1, even if not as good looking here:
While the LF-1 never made it to production, there is no denying that this form factor has the most universal appeal and is the logical choice for whatever Lexus wants to consider their next global flagship. While I think the house, catamaran, hub, micro/wheelchair, and drone are too conceptual to mean anything, I think the LS Coupe Concept along with the LS Concept mean something tangible.
I *think* Lexus is looking at a future where "LS" is many things and an "LS" model will be the flagship of it's body style within the lineup. Examples:
- LS Crossover or LS "X"
- LS Coupe could be a reinvention of the LC
- LS Van/MPV, which I could see evolving from the current LM and the next generation being previewed by the LS Concept here
- Not sure how LX would factor into this?
- Unlikely the LS sedan returns anytime soon
I think LS is no longer a car but some kind of design philosophy, like the spindle for the last decade. So what we are seeing labelled as "LS" may actually be previews of next-gen Lexus models, specifically the LM and NX/RX. You can even see the same partially blacked out C-pillar on the LS Coupe as the RX. All EV's, all focused on this so-called "luxury space". I'm not really sold on it, but it seems to be Lexus PR's way of saying that the LS "lives on as the spirit of future Lexus models".
The more important question is: what are the power sources? TMC has so far been very vague about their "multi-pathway" future because they never gave any detail on their vision of the multi-pathway platforms: are they reusing the crappy ICEV-converted eTNGA platform? Are they developing a true multi-pathway platform like Neue Klasse? Are they still developing the giga-casted dedicated BEV platform? Are they just going to use an existing platform from a Chinese BEV maker?
The 6ES is the first "multi-pathway" product under this vision, but it was built on a modified TNGA-K/e-TNGA platform that still suffers from the problems of traditional ICEV-conversion platforms: increased floor height, increased overall height, poor packaging, heavy weight. Because of that we get a series of underwhelming power options: an okay but very basic hybrid option, a FWD BEV option with very little power, an AWD BEV option with very poor range and packaging; no high-power hybrid option and no plug-in hybrid option. And they didn't communicate why they cannot provide these options. BMW at least solved one problem (packaging) on their modified CLAR and I think Neue Klasse will be much better optimized.
So far TMC has not demonstrated their ability to engineer a good "multi-pathway" platform for a wide range of products. It doesn't matter how good their "vision" on the LS "family" is. Cars need powertrains to turn the wheels, and if they don't have good powertrains they won't be good cars. The LS Coupe looks cool, but what if we get the same 500h multi-stage hybrid option that basically uses an engine from 2006 and a 550e BEV option that has less than 250mi of EPA range?
At this point I don't trust a single word from TMC unless they improve their communications: what new family of engines will they offer; when they are retiring the Dynamic Force family of engines; what are the next generation of HEV options; what battery chemistry/form factor they are going to use; what are their target power/energy density of next-gen batteries etc. German brands and especially now Chinese brands are very transparent about these details.
The 6ES is the first "multi-pathway" product under this vision, but it was built on a modified TNGA-K/e-TNGA platform that still suffers from the problems of traditional ICEV-conversion platforms: increased floor height, increased overall height, poor packaging, heavy weight. Because of that we get a series of underwhelming power options: an okay but very basic hybrid option, a FWD BEV option with very little power, an AWD BEV option with very poor range and packaging; no high-power hybrid option and no plug-in hybrid option. And they didn't communicate why they cannot provide these options. BMW at least solved one problem (packaging) on their modified CLAR and I think Neue Klasse will be much better optimized.
So far TMC has not demonstrated their ability to engineer a good "multi-pathway" platform for a wide range of products. It doesn't matter how good their "vision" on the LS "family" is. Cars need powertrains to turn the wheels, and if they don't have good powertrains they won't be good cars. The LS Coupe looks cool, but what if we get the same 500h multi-stage hybrid option that basically uses an engine from 2006 and a 550e BEV option that has less than 250mi of EPA range?
At this point I don't trust a single word from TMC unless they improve their communications: what new family of engines will they offer; when they are retiring the Dynamic Force family of engines; what are the next generation of HEV options; what battery chemistry/form factor they are going to use; what are their target power/energy density of next-gen batteries etc. German brands and especially now Chinese brands are very transparent about these details.
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Gecko
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^I completely agree.
I've heard that internally Lexus has pulled back on "EV by 2035" and is favoring a mix of HEV, PHEV, and BEV for the foreseeable future but with no external announcement on platforms or powertrain strategy -- and a series of very underwhelming, overhyped EVs -- it just doesn't look very promising.
Lexus' EV announcement was almost 4 years ago (December 2021) with no update since.
The original TNGA Dynamic Force powertrain announcement was from 2018.
Crickets ever since.
I've heard that internally Lexus has pulled back on "EV by 2035" and is favoring a mix of HEV, PHEV, and BEV for the foreseeable future but with no external announcement on platforms or powertrain strategy -- and a series of very underwhelming, overhyped EVs -- it just doesn't look very promising.
Lexus' EV announcement was almost 4 years ago (December 2021) with no update since.
The original TNGA Dynamic Force powertrain announcement was from 2018.
Crickets ever since.
Last Spindle?
blackjack214
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After seeing these concepts, I genuinely think Lexus is struggling to find an interior design language or direction. There is no continuity in any of their interior designs from their recent concepts, as if they are experimenting without clear direction. It seems like they just decided to strip the dash completely and try on different screen placements/orientation. Who thought placing 2 screens on top of each other in front of the driver was a good idea?! I get these are concepts but IMO it still needs to be grounded with a mild touch of reality. Also, I find it funny that the Century coupe got the interior/infotainment setup previewed in the LFZC and LFZL. 🤨…..ES dash is still trash to me
mikeavelli
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Would have loved to see a LS F, something I would have bought… I’m still processing this all…
CRSKTN
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It's almost as if they put the design of their vehicles out to public competition among the whole company and develop multiple versions of most of their cars until the end of the full process so they can decide on which they want, and none of this is as centrally planned or orchestrated as we think.
Lexus has always been the experimental dumping ground.
It's just the people working there were so good that they often hit it out of the park in the long-run with a lot of what they went to market with. A product experiment created the luxury crossover market. That is crazy.
Companies like Infiniti are being smarter about this. The GTR SUV, etc, approach and super luxe interiors, etc is a good angle to take.
If they're smart they could really edge in on Lexus. Lexus service quality and differentiation isn't what it used to be.
Toyota is restless. All this forcing of repositioning brands is so contrived. Who is going to buy that century coupe, if anything the question will be "why isn't the all imposing looking SUV decked out with this level of passenger focus and technology"? They'd better be updating the sedan and SUV too.
It's a coupe SUV for people that like being chauffeur driven? Or people who want a mobile coupe that you can sit in captain chair and use as a mobile workstation or something? Then why not go all out and get whatever the craziest LS box on wheels configuration will be?
I wonder if we will see a Century van at some point if the LS van proves successful.
Also that van better have some crazy **** in it that puts the BMW 7 series, LM, etc to shame.
The century coupe though with the displays wrapped around the bottom of the windows, etc though is crazy.
Lexus has always been the experimental dumping ground.
It's just the people working there were so good that they often hit it out of the park in the long-run with a lot of what they went to market with. A product experiment created the luxury crossover market. That is crazy.
Companies like Infiniti are being smarter about this. The GTR SUV, etc, approach and super luxe interiors, etc is a good angle to take.
If they're smart they could really edge in on Lexus. Lexus service quality and differentiation isn't what it used to be.
Toyota is restless. All this forcing of repositioning brands is so contrived. Who is going to buy that century coupe, if anything the question will be "why isn't the all imposing looking SUV decked out with this level of passenger focus and technology"? They'd better be updating the sedan and SUV too.
It's a coupe SUV for people that like being chauffeur driven? Or people who want a mobile coupe that you can sit in captain chair and use as a mobile workstation or something? Then why not go all out and get whatever the craziest LS box on wheels configuration will be?
I wonder if we will see a Century van at some point if the LS van proves successful.
Also that van better have some crazy **** in it that puts the BMW 7 series, LM, etc to shame.
The century coupe though with the displays wrapped around the bottom of the windows, etc though is crazy.
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Gor134
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I'd like to think Akio had a certain level respect for Lexus though, at least with the GS. Short of the powertrains, Lexus did go all out on the chassis development of the GS. I was wondering if the reason why the 5GS was reincarnated as the Mirai because Akio loved the GS platform but wasn't allowed to keep it for Lexus. Just random thought I had lol.
CRSKTN
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Lexus has happened despite that dude, not because of him. What their employees have to tolerate and go through to deliver is not humane treatment, despite how they make it out to be.