Cadillac dealers treading water until de Nysschen's vision materializes (Now cutting 43% of dealers)

[mikeavelli]

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...-nysschens-vision?cciid=email-autonews-weekly

Good read on their attempt to move Cadillac upward and some of the pain the dealers will bare if they go through with it.

 

[mmcartalk]

Cadillac, as I see it, right now, has four significant problems.....all of which are affecting sales.

First, many of their most loyal and traditional customers (essentially the WWII generation and some early Baby-Boomers) are dying off, and the ones that are still driving are alienated by the loss of the DeVille/DTS. (this is similar to what happened at Lincoln with the loss of the Town Car). To date, though the CT-6 and Continental Concept both look promising, neither Cadillac nor Lincoln has really developed a credible replacement for the DTS or Town Car...the XTS and MKS just aren't comfortable enough for the seniors and traditional buyers.

Second, the compact-luxury SUV (CUV) market is currently exploding in popularity, and, while Lexus, BMW, Lincoln, Land Rover, and Audi have all recently addressed this with new products, Cadillac is clearly late to the party, and will not have a small SUV ready for perhaps another year and a half to two years.

Third, while there is indeed a market for sports sedans (and the CTS -V and ATS-V are both excellent products in that category), the standard, run-of-the-mill ATS was probably designed with underpinnings and tires that were too stiff for those seeking a nice entry-level Cadillac with some comfort to it....and a step-up to even the non-V-CTS costs quite a bit more.

Fourth, Cadillac's CUE system, like Ford's MYTOUCH, has been a source of complaints, not only just from customers but reviewers and the auto press as well. Sometimes newer and more complex is not always better.

So, it looks like the division has its work cut out for it.

 

[Och]

I don't see many new Cadillacs here in NYC. New Lexus, BMW, MB and even Infiniti are dollar a bucket, heck I've even saw a few RLX - but I'm just not seeing many new Caddys. It's not surprising, because thier designs are weird and center console/infotainment system design belongs in last decade.

 

[CIF]

Excellent article Mike, thanks for posting! They definitely need to endure the short-term pain, if they want long-term gain as a brand. No other way around it.

Very well said mmcartalk. I agree 100% exactly .

The lone exception/bright spot seems to be the Escalade for Cadillac.

 

[mmcartalk]

Very well said mmcartalk. I agree 100% exactly .

Thanks. I really wish the XTS drove as good as its fit/finish and interior looks (minus the CUE and sensor-controls). Its more efficient V6, 6-speed transmission and AWD option are major advances over the DTS's so-so fit/finish, ancient 4-speed, Northstar V8 and FWD-only configuration. But IMO it is just too light, too firmly-sprung even with the magnetic-shocks, and just not refined enough to really be a proper replacement. And the one I test-drove had a shimmy in the steering wheel that the factory later admitted was a design problem....not just unbalanced or out-of-round wheels/tires.

The lone exception/bright spot seems to be the Escalade for Cadillac.

I suspect the main reason the Escalade sells is that, even on a traditional truck-chassis, it, alone among today's Cadillac models, still represents classic American bling and excess.....chrome, wood, leather, glitz, plushness, power, room inside, and a sense of showing off. In fact (though this may be a stereotype), if you watch the Reality-TV show "Bait Car", some police departments use Escalades as bait in areas of high crime and auto-thefts (Compton, CA, for one, a notorious town for gangs and thieves). They leave the bait vehicles parked on the corner, with the keys in them, unlocked...but the police can freeze the door/window controls and shut things down after they are taken and driven off, trapping the thief inside the vehicle. Auto thieves, of course, can and do take any vehicle whose occasion presents itself......but the Escalade, in particular, attracts them like bees to honey.

 

[Och]

I suspect the main reason the Escalade sells is that, even on a traditional truck-chassis, it, alone among today's Cadillac models, still represents classic American bling and excess.....chrome, wood, leather, glitz, plushness, power, room inside, and a sense of showing off. In fact (though this may be a stereotype), if you watch the Reality-TV show "Bait Car", some police departments use Escalades as bait in areas of high crime and auto-thefts (Compton, CA, for one, a notorious town for gangs and thieves). They leave the bait vehicles parked on the corner, with the keys in them, unlocked...but the police can freeze the door/window controls and shut things down after they are taken and driven off, trapping the thief inside the vehicle. Auto thieves, of course, can and do take any vehicle whose occasion presents itself......but the Escalade, in particular, attracts them like bees to honey.

There are many Escalades and even more Tahoes in NYC that are used for limo duty.

 

[mmcartalk]

There are many Escalades and even more Tahoes in NYC that are used for limo duty.

They probably don't have much choice, now that they can't get new Town Cars and DTS's any more....unless they go with used or CPO's.

 

[Och]

They probably don't have much choice, now that they can't get new Town Cars and DTS's any more....unless they go with used or CPO's.

They were actually in service even before Towncar was discountinued. Now you have Uber taxis mostly running Camry and Avalon and premium limo's are often S class Mercs. But black Tahoes are extremely popular as well (in fact most black Tahoes in NYC have T&LC plates) and Escalade limos are here and there as well.

 

[mikeavelli]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cadillac-buyers-balk-500-month-040001221.html

Dealers are very unhappy right now and thats never a good thing for a brand.

 

[IS-SV]

Wow, some serious challenges at Caddy with pricing alone.

 

[mmcartalk]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cadillac-buyers-balk-500-month-040001221.html

Dealers are very unhappy right now and thats never a good thing for a brand.

Hopefully, next year will be a good one for Cadillac....at least compared to the present. There will be a new flagship CT6 (something badly needed, IMO), a new compact-sized SUV by the end of the year to undercut the SRX and compete with the Lexus NX/Lincoln MKC/Audi Q3 (something else badly needed), a more user-friendly CUE system on some models, and (probably) happier dealerships.

 

[Bulldog 1]

Personal experience: did a 2011 CTS. Great lease payment. Dealership experience wasn't Lexus, but salesman was great.
Car was lacking so many Lexus standard features. No Bluetooth, no power right seat, no CD changer, significantly louder V6 engine and transmission, stiffer ride. The "free maintenance" took one year to deliver because the dealer wouldn't touch the car until OnStar said so. Lexus says bring it in twice for free in 18 months.
When lease was expiring, new CTS was coming out and Cadillac jumped the entry price point from $37K to more than $50K.
We tried making a deal on a leftover CTS but they could not negotiate a price low enough.
Test drove the ATS and it was woefully less than the CTS in so many ways.
Cadillac priced us away so we went back to Lexus who happily put us back into another ES at our price point.
They made a huge mistake proclaiming they were going after the German market when they never had the right products to compete.
Ultimately, due to the aging demographic as stated above and the arrogance to deliver an inferior product and dealership experience at such a high price, both Buick and Cadillac have suffered the same fate.
The sheer volume of Hyundai on the road in my area demonstrates all but the hardcore American car loyalists have gone elsewhere for value and quality.
Why have I leased eight Lexus vehicles between 2006 and 2015? Luxury, reliability, an enhanced dealership experience and the ability to deliver value that fits my budget. The 2011 Cadillac that snuck in only helped to reinforce that to us.

 

[mmcartalk]

Personal experience: did a 2011 CTS. Great lease payment. Dealership experience wasn't Lexus, but salesman was great.
Car was lacking so many Lexus standard features. No Bluetooth, no power right seat, no CD changer, significantly louder V6 engine and transmission, stiffer ride. The "free maintenance" took one year to deliver because the dealer wouldn't touch the car until OnStar said so. Lexus says bring it in twice for free in 18 months.
When lease was expiring, new CTS was coming out and Cadillac jumped the entry price point from $37K to more than $50K.
We tried making a deal on a leftover CTS but they could not negotiate a price low enough.
Test drove the ATS and it was woefully less than the CTS in so many ways.
Cadillac priced us away so we went back to Lexus who happily put us back into another ES at our price point.
They made a huge mistake proclaiming they were going after the German market when they never had the right products to compete.
Ultimately, due to the aging demographic as stated above and the arrogance to deliver an inferior product and dealership experience at such a high price, both Buick and Cadillac have suffered the same fate.
The sheer volume of Hyundai on the road in my area demonstrates all but the hardcore American car loyalists have gone elsewhere for value and quality.
Why have I leased eight Lexus vehicles between 2006 and 2015? Luxury, reliability, an enhanced dealership experience and the ability to deliver value that fits my budget. The 2011 Cadillac that snuck in only helped to reinforce that to us.

To some extent, though, you may be comparing apples and oranges. You can't compare a CTS purchase or lease directly with an ES, because they don't compete directly with each other. The CTS is a RWD/AWD semi-sport sedan, while the ES is a Camry-platform FWD mid-sized luxury sedan. In fact, Cadillac doesn't really have anything in the American market that competes directly with the ES........the FWD version of the Buick LaCrosse is, overall, a much better comparison.

 

[Bulldog 1]

LOL.
I assumed you already knew this before you posted bad information. Sorry but your rebuttal is wrong.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...avalon-platform-to-improve-global-appeal.html

 

[mmcartalk]

LOL.
I assumed you already knew this before you posted bad information. Sorry but your rebuttal is wrong.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...avalon-platform-to-improve-global-appeal.html

How is it wrong? First, it wasn't a rebuttal per se....I was just pointing out that there is no direct competition between an ES and a CTS. Second, your posted article says nothing to change that. It does repeat some of what I said.....the connections between the ES/Avalon and both their origins in a stretched-Camry platform. But none of that rebuts what I said about the ES and CTS.....if you think it DOES rebut it, then please explain how.

 

[IS-SV]

Who cares, the thread isn't about splitting hairs about different car models. It's about Cadallac and challenges at dealerships. What we have are actual Caddy and Lexus dealership buying/leasing experiences being reported here, not the usual Internet hearsay.

 

[mmcartalk]

Who cares, the thread isn't about splitting hairs about different car models. It's about Cadallac and challenges at dealerships. What we have are actual Caddy and Lexus dealership experiences being reported here, not the usual Internet hearsay.

I know you have owned Lexus models. Have you ever owned a Cadillac that you purchased at a dealership? Based on a review/test-drive I did, I came close once (considered a 2Gen CTS....even talked some figures on it), but the (then) worse-than-average reliability rating from Consumer Reports, at the time, gave me second thoughts.

 

[IS-SV]

I know you have owned Lexus models. Have you ever owned a Cadillac that you purchased at a dealership? Based on a review/test-drive I did, I came close once (considered a 2Gen CTS....even talked some figures on it), but the (then) worse-than-average reliability rating from Consumer Reports, at the time, gave me second thoughts.

No Caddys purchased via dealership for me. Like you I'm skeptical of quality/reliability. Also I do not care for exterior and interior styling at all. Depreciation rates are higher than I prefer too.

Regarding Caddy dealership experience, I wasn't impressed when I test drove SRX SUV a while back. Not close to being like the Lexus and Mercedes dealership experiences I'm used too.

 

[mmcartalk]

No Caddys purchased via dealership for me. Like you I'm skeptical of quality/reliability.

Interestingly enough, though, other Caddys, according to Consumer reports (especially the CTS since the days I considered one), have improved in reliability the last several years. Only the ATS and XTS are significantly below average....and the XTS (fortunately, IMO), will be out of the picture soon.

Regarding Caddy dealership experience, I wasn't impressed when I test drove SRX SUV a while back. Not close to being like the Lexus and Mercedes dealership experiences I'm used too.

One of the kindest and most considerate salespersons I ever met went out with me on a Cadillac XTS test-drive (often, I can go out alone, but not always). Too bad, because I was probably even less impressed with the XTS than you were with the SRX. Though he didn't get my sale, I did refer some future customers to him. I'm a firm believer that if someone treats you courteously, you do the same in return. (comes in handy, too, in getting free D.C. auto show passes).

 

[Gecko]

Looking at the sales numbers, ATS and CTS are really struggling right now.

Hopefully there will be some good press from ATS-V and CTS-V launches that can trickle down to the lesser models. CT6 is around the corner, but with CTS and ATS doing so poorly, that worries me.

XT5 should be here by the end of the year, I think? Small CUV is next year.

At least they have Escalades...