After 40 years, BMW's 3 series rules a tougher league

[Och]

^ Another MINI-derived BMW, and less attractive than new X1.

I probably wouldn't care if BMW simply introduced new models that were FWD based, without affecting existing models, but they already converted the new X1 - and it is now mechanically identical to that active turd in the review I posted earlier.

I wonder if the current 3 series (which is still RWD based) drives so lousy because BMW considering converting it to FWD, and getting customers used to lousy drive early on?

 

[Bulldog 1]

Its already been stated a few posts up, but from a purchase POV, I always LMAO when I do my obligatory "Lets see what's out there now" shopping before returning to Lexus for yet another exemplary buying experience.
EVERYTHING with BMW is a package add-on, as is most the same with MB.
Or...just buy a Lexus where all the expected creature comforts are included as standard and you actually end up buying an automobile for what you expected, not an additional $5K - $10K more because GASP! you wanted an iPod connection (accessories pkg), something more comfortable than a school bus bench seat (luxury pkg) etc. etc.
I am horribly biased against most of the German brands except Porsche, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why or how anyone ever leases one.
Residual-wise, they have to rank among the worst on the market when reading the ads in my area.
I usually trade keys with minimal out of pocket with Lexus. They're THRILLED when we turn our cars back because they get them back in unusually clean conditions with super low miles. They normally buy our cars back and flip them after minor reconditioning as CPO.
BMW especially are some of the most egregiously overpriced leases I've ever seen.
To achieve a monthly payment as advertised (ususually competitive with Lexus), they DEMAND $4K-$5K down plus first month, tax, tag, title, $925 bank fee, $675 dealer fee etc.
All the local dealers run the same ads, and MB is right there with them. You're looking at conservatively $6K - $7K out of pocket to drive off.
I remember having a salesman join me while I was sitting inside an M3 at our local auto show a few years ago, and he told me LOL "you know what BMW stands for, right? BRING MONEY WITH".
Of the little I've actually driven a BMW 3 series, and for how tiny they are in person, and how bland they are designed inside and out, with no Japanese concept of driver ergonomics compared to Lexus, I've never understood the Apple like cult following they induce on people.
Driving in South Florida, where courtesy and consideration for others on the road is extinct, I've consistently observed a high percentage of BMW drivers -especially 3 series - as among the most dangerous and arrogant behind the wheel. Darting in and out of lanes at high speeds, cutting people off constantly, sitting in a turn lane and then zipping in front of everyone else to go straight at an intersection because they're too privileged to just wait in line...MB drivers are a very close second. Had an experience with an E350 coupe last night while driving my ES350. No one coming behind me for a good 3/4 of a mile.
They may have a vaunted 40 year history and spoon with automotive journalists to get their car of the year status, but I personally reject all things BMW for the reasons stated.
*Your mileage may vary, but my personal opinion doesn't

 

[mmcartalk]

I am horribly biased against most of the German brands except Porsche, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why or how anyone ever leases one.

BMW, for years, had attractive lease-rates because of their low depreciation and high residual values, but that might not hold as true for the latest ones, some of (not all) which are losing the stellar reputation they once had for great road-manners.

 

[mikeavelli]

The 3 series also has expanded quite a bit with more engine choices than ever and in the case of the coupe (4 series) the gran coupe and their hatchback Gran Turismo.

 

[Och]

The 3 series also has expanded quite a bit with more engine choices than ever and in the case of the coupe (4 series) the gran coupe and their hatchback Gran Turismo.

They also have the 3 series wagon, but honestly they didn't try all that much to differentiate 4GC and 3GT from regular 3 sedan. They are almost identical and I can barely tell them apart.

They do offer more engine choices, but they are the same design - turbo 4 and turbo 6 with different tunes. No more screaming V8 for the M3, no more high output NA I6, no more V10. Most of their newer models feel more like subtle to heavy refreshes of old generation rather than all new models, and with some of them there are obvious cost cuttings, especially the fwd nonsense.

Their only product that really feels innovative and special is the i8. I haven't driven it, but I sat in it, and basically everything you touch and see feels exclusive. The car is just a work of art.

 

[Och]

 

[Bulldog 1]

[QUOTE="Och, post: 12996, member:they've [/QUOTE]
So that pretty much cements that they've abandoned their performance heritage in favor of tree hugging go green SUV / crossover or die mentality.
What I read into this IMO is their arrogance (Envy ? LOL) of "we'll always sell the cars without really trying" and convince their sheep that they're environmentally responsible now. Catering to CAFE, if you will.
Only market share and repeat business will determine if this strategy proves successful or not.

 

[Och]

An employee of mine (young guy in his early 20ies) is looking to lease his first car. His budget is between $300-400 a month, and he was looking for my advice. We wen't over quite a number of cars, and stopped at the IS200t or possibly even the discontinued IS250. The 3 series was considered, but the current generation is just too uninspiring. BMW needs a wake up call.

 

[mmcartalk]

An employee of mine (young guy in his early 20ies) is looking to lease his first car. His budget is between $300-400 a month, and he was looking for my advice. We wen't over quite a number of cars, and stopped at the IS200t or possibly even the discontinued IS250. The 3 series was considered, but the current generation is just too uninspiring. BMW needs a wake up call.

This might not be the right thread to really get into it here, but if his budget is $300-400 a month, and he's open to a lease, Cadillac is currently offering $349 (36 month, 10,000 mies a year) leases on new ATS coupes, with $4109 up front, though the fine print says it might vary somewhat by dealership.

Most reviews of the ATS (plus my own review/test-drive experience) rate it better than the 3-series (or even the IS) in handling......at the cost of a stiffer ride.

http://www.cadillac.com/current-off...bodystyle=ats-coupe&x-carline=ats&x-year=2016

 

[Och]

This might not be the right thread to really get into it here, but if his budget is $300-400 a month, and he's open to a lease, Cadillac is currently offering $349 (36 month, 10,000 mies a year) leases on new ATS coupes, with $4109 up front, though the fine print says it might vary somewhat by dealership.

Most reviews of the ATS (plus my own review/test-drive experience) rate it better than the 3-series (or even the IS) in handling......at the cost of a stiffer ride.

http://www.cadillac.com/current-off...bodystyle=ats-coupe&x-carline=ats&x-year=2016

Thanks. Right now his number one candidate is the IS, but he's also getting some insurance quotes. Its going to be his first car, and insurance may vary depending on what type of car he gets.

 

[mikeavelli]

An employee of mine (young guy in his early 20ies) is looking to lease his first car. His budget is between $300-400 a month, and he was looking for my advice. We wen't over quite a number of cars, and stopped at the IS200t or possibly even the discontinued IS250. The 3 series was considered, but the current generation is just too uninspiring. BMW needs a wake up call.

The thing is since the car continues to sell better than ever will BMW make it more hardcore again or just leave that for the 2 series at this point?

 

[Och]

The thing is since the car continues to sell better than ever will BMW make it more hardcore again or just leave that for the 2 series at this point?

I'm not holding my breath. I bet more in the next decade we'll start seeing more and more BMWs that are xDrive only and even more FWD based models with tranvestite mounted engines and drivetrains.

 

[mmcartalk]

I'm not holding my breath. I bet more in the next decade we'll start seeing more and more BMWs that are xDrive only and even more FWD based models with tranvestite mounted engines and drivetrains.

You can (probably) thank the upcoming CAFE and emission standards for that. They are (or will be) forcing smaller, lighter engines and platforms. And, with smaller vehicles, FWD, especially with transverse (sideways-mounted) engines, is usually easier to do than RWD, because of inherently better space efficiency. That whole engineering concept, of course, goes back to the original Mini Cooper of 1959...........and of course, look who owns the Mini nameplate today.

 

[Och]

At least they finally got cupholders right.

 

[IS-SV]

BMW probably is laughing all the way to the bank with record revenue/profits/unit volume for the 3 and 4 series. Closest competition is Benz (C-class), but until the new coupe comes out in spring they are no threat to BMW's #1 position.

 

[Och]

The newly launched FWD based X1 is not selling as well as the outgoing model. Its December 2015 sales were 1,769 vs 2,591 in December 2014 for the old model, and its sales were down in October and November as well. I hope the sales of this abortion continue to decline so that BMW learns their lesson before ruining anymore models.

 

[mmcartalk]

BMW probably is laughing all the way to the bank with record revenue/profits/unit volume for the 3 and 4 series. Closest competition is Benz (C-class), but until the new coupe comes out in spring they are no threat to BMW's #1 position.

IMO, if they are smart, instead of taking that money to the bank, BMW will, instead, re-invest it and use the cash where it is needed.....investing in steering/chassis refinements for the 3/4 series (where it once set the class standard) to insure that it STAYS in first place.

 

[Bulldog 1]

You can (probably) thank the upcoming CAFE and emission standards for that. They are (or will be) forcing smaller, lighter engines and platforms. And, with smaller vehicles, FWD, especially with transverse (sideways-mounted) engines, is usually easier to do than RWD, because of inherently better space efficiency. That whole engineering concept, of course, goes back to the original Mini Cooper of 1959...........and of course, look who owns the Mini nameplate today.

Yeah, the government needs a CAFE enema. Some of us could give a rats @$$ about fuel economy approaching 50mpg.
Hybrids don't achieve it, gasoline engine cars won't get it unless you're driving a Chevy Sparx.
With gas under $2.00 a gallon and oil trading at $39 a barrel, CAFE is a pipe dream.

 

[mmcartalk]

Yeah, the government needs a CAFE enema. Some of us could give a rats @$$ about fuel economy approaching 50mpg.
Hybrids don't achieve it, gasoline engine cars won't get it unless you're driving a Chevy Sparx.
With gas under $2.00 a gallon and oil trading at $39 a barrel, CAFE is a pipe dream.

The main idea (though I don't totally agree with it, either), seems to be, regardless of gas-prices, to eventually get away from petroleum-based fuels, period.

 

[IS-SV]

IMO, if they are smart, instead of taking that money to the bank, BMW will, instead, re-invest it and use the cash where it is needed.....investing in steering/chassis refinements for the 3/4 series (where it once set the class standard) to insure that it STAYS in first place.

Yes and IMO they also need to address interiors and overall solidness, both areas where they lag slightly behind Mercedes and Lexus.

Regardless, seems like only Mercedes C-class (sedan plus new coupe) has a sniff of knocking the 3/4 off first place pedestal. Although IS/RC sales are showing strength. All the current gen 3 (and 5) series owners that I know are pleased with their cars.