Gecko

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Despite a trademark, enthusiast anticipation and excitement, and nearly unanimous media coverage of Toyota’s upcoming sports car as the “Lexus LFR,” it appears all but final that the new car will wear a GR badge — not a circle L.
The LFR is over before it started.

Teaser images released by Toyota almost always have a subtext for those who look at the details, and one such photo was released today in advance of an upcoming October 13th major brand announcement. The image above shows the Lexus LFA behind a GR branded sports car with the words, “The soul lives on.” The Lexus and GR logos are both visible in the photo and there is no doubt the placement of these two cars and their logos are...

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I think there is a chance that this could still wear the Lexus badge, but Gazoo Racing replaces F as the performance arm for both Toyota and Lexus. The F brand is very much headed for retirement though. We could see this as potentially the GR LFR or something like that. If it isnt a lexus it will be a real shame, and hopefully they maybe revise this Lexus Sport Concept to have a combustion powertrain. The fact that they removed the "electrified part" could tell us something.
 

Kelvin2020

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I think there is a chance that this could still wear the Lexus badge, but Gazoo Racing replaces F as the performance arm for both Toyota and Lexus. The F brand is very much headed for retirement though. We could see this as potentially the GR LFR or something like that. If it isnt a lexus it will be a real shame, and hopefully they maybe revise this Lexus Sport Concept to have a combustion powertrain. The fact that they removed the "electrified part" could tell us something.
I think all this time, it’s been us enthusiasts desperately making excuses for them, clinging to our own justifications again and again. We all tired of it. The LFR isn’t coming, and that concept car will never make it to production. Everything we believed in was nothing more than an illusion.
It’s time to face reality Lexus has already fallen into the role of an abandoned child, with no one truly willing to take responsibility for its future.


The only way for Lexus to change is to break away from Toyota’s control.
 
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I think all this time, it’s been us enthusiasts desperately making excuses for them, clinging to our own justifications again and again. We all tired of it. The LFR isn’t coming, and that concept car will never make it to production. Everything we believed in was nothing more than an illusion.
It’s time to face reality Lexus has already fallen into the role of an abandoned child, with no one truly willing to take responsibility for its future.


The only way for Lexus to change is to break away from Toyota’s control.
No. They literally released an updated version of the 2021 concept a couple months ago. The concept is very much coming. I do agree that Lexus leaves much to be desired currently. They are a far cry from the BMW and Mercedes rivals they used to be.
 
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I knew it the moment I heard Larry Chen parrot the "this is a successor to the 2000GT" line he got fed from corporate.
Then we see them sandwich the LFA like it's the odd man out here.
What I am really praying for is that Lexus just makes their performance division GR as well, and its a Lexus with a GR badge.
 

CRSKTN

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I appreciate the optimism but I feel like if that was the case the LBX would probably be a GR and not a "Morizo Edition".
 

Falcon

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I appreciate the optimism but I feel like if that was the case the LBX would probably be a GR and not a "Morizo Edition".
Perhaps they weren't quite ready to integrate GR into Lexus given F still hadn't died out at the time?
 

Levi

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The “new IS” is still F Sport and so the updated NX. I don’t see any GR badged Lexus, before there should be models and engines that deserve GR badge.
 

CRSKTN

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Perhaps they weren't quite ready to integrate GR into Lexus given F still hadn't died out at the time?

They must've been busy putting this together instead.
We wouldn't want the biggest automaker on Earth to be stretched thin, delivering multiple models of cars.
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They must've been busy putting this together instead.
We wouldn't want the biggest automaker on Earth to be stretched thin, delivering multiple models of cars.
View attachment 10590
The hate is extreme at this point. Gazoo Racing is their racing division across the board. I think therefore replacing F with GR is purely logical. They are expanding GR into things like Formula One, and it basically stands for motorsport heritage. F doesnt really have any connection of the sort, and has been seen as a joke. Lexus GR just works better than Lexus F at this point. I should point out that the Lexus LFA racecar raced under Gazoo Racing aswell, and won it's class in the 24h Nurburgring. I think it would be a travesty if this LFR thing isnt badged as some sort of Lexus, but I dont think its a bad thing overall if they replace Lexus F with GR.1760324393933.png
 

Faisal Sheikh

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The hate is extreme at this point.

Where is the hate? Lexus is the flagship luxury brand of the TMC. Lexus had started out by transforming Lexus into a 'not so boring' brand back with the ISF and then continued with the LFA creating the F brand to lower the average age. It accomplished what it set out to do since so many young buyers purchased Lexus F products since then helping Lexus shed the image of a 'grandpa mobile' that was plaguing it till late-2000s. People want Lexus to continue to build on this brand that had so much invested into it in the last nearly 20 years. Saying, it should not be a Toyota GR product, but rather continue building the legacy of F as an F product, has no hateful connotations in it whatsoever. It is a subjective opinion of people that the F product should continue to be the flagship high performance brand.

I personally don't really care. GR or F product, the LFR is definitely something that needs to continue the legacy of the RCF GT3 as its direct replacement.


Gazoo Racing is their racing division across the board. I think therefore replacing F with GR is purely logical.

What about this? Arguably, the most successful racing campaign TMC has been able to mount, is the Lexus F product, which is the RCF GT3 that replaced the LFA racing car back in 2016 - 2017. Just looking at the wins against the level of competition makes it clear, which car has the highest profile wins. Most importantly, the foundations are strongly rooted in the street car as per the homologation requirements of the GT3 racing.

The only reason why RCF was in production for 10 years, was homologation requirements of a street car needed to compete in the GT3 class.

1739656069384.png

They are expanding GR into things like Formula One, and it basically stands for motorsport heritage. F doesnt really have any connection of the sort, and has been seen as a joke.

You seem to have bias against the F brand. RCF GT3 was not a joke. It raced for 10 years and won all kinds of races in one of the toughest GT3 class. It was purely logical as RCF GT3 is being retired exactly to replace it with the LFR GT3 to be its successor. RCF GT3 just was retired this year after almost 10 years. It is even on the front page of the Gazoo racing:


Lexus GR just works better than Lexus F at this point. I should point out that the Lexus LFA racecar raced under Gazoo Racing aswell,

and won it's class in the 24h Nurburgring. I think it would be a travesty if this LFR thing isnt badged as some sort of Lexus, but I dont think its a bad thing overall if they replace Lexus F with GR.

Yeah, and what did the Gazoo LFA accomplish? I recommend you go and look at the win. It is easy to say it 'won its class' when it was competing in the SP8 class where there was practically ZERO competitors. LFA was practically racing itself in the SP8 class at the Nurburgring. The only time I recall there was another car competing in the SP8 class, was a modified Nissan GTR that broke down after a few laps and LFA won against it. Overall, the LFA never placed better than 12th and mostly around 20 - 25th overall through out its career. Lexus even tried coming up with a more potent version of the LFA called LFA Code X, which had the 5.3 Liter V10 (stroked version of the 4.8 Liter V10) in order to compete in the more competitive SP3 class. TMC again failed to get good wins with the LFA Code X and the LFA Code X was short lived.

By all accounts, the Gazoo LFA was a failure in terms of getting big wins. TMC only raced the LFA a few seasons and then scrapped it in favor of the RCF GT3 in 2016 - 2017. The RCF GT3 over the next 10 years won a lot of races in far tougher endurance series despite having a much smaller R&D budget and being an inferior platform on paper than the Gazoo LFA.
 
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Where is the hate? Lexus is the flagship luxury brand of the TMC. Lexus had started out by transforming Lexus into a 'not so boring' brand back with the ISF and then continued with the LFA creating the F brand to lower the average age. It accomplished what it set out to do since so many young buyers purchased Lexus F products since then helping Lexus shed the image of a 'grandpa mobile' that was plaguing it till late-2000s. People want Lexus to continue to build on this brand that had so much invested into it in the last nearly 20 years. Saying, it should not be a Toyota GR product, but rather continue building the legacy of F as an F product, has no hateful connotations in it whatsoever. It is a subjective opinion of people that the F product should continue to be the flagship high performance brand.

I personally don't really care. GR or F product, the LFR is definitely something that needs to continue the legacy of the RCF GT3 as its direct replacement.




What about this? Arguably, the most successful racing campaign TMC has been able to mount, is the Lexus F product, which is the RCF GT3 that replaced the LFA racing car back in 2016 - 2017. Just looking at the wins against the level of competition makes it clear, which car has the highest profile wins. Most importantly, the foundations are strongly rooted in the street car as per the homologation requirements of the GT3 racing.

The only reason why RCF was in production for 10 years, was homologation requirements of a street car needed to compete in the GT3 class.

View attachment 10616



You seem to have bias against the F brand. RCF GT3 was not a joke. It raced for 10 years and won all kinds of races in one of the toughest GT3 class. It was purely logical as RCF GT3 is being retired exactly to replace it with the LFR GT3 to be its successor. RCF GT3 just was retired this year after almost 10 years. It is even on the front page of the Gazoo racing:






Yeah, and what did the Gazoo LFA accomplish? I recommend you go and look at the win. It is easy to say it 'won its class' when it was competing in the SP8 class where there was practically ZERO competitors. LFA was practically racing itself in the SP8 class at the Nurburgring. The only time I recall there was another car competing in the SP8 class, was a modified Nissan GTR that broke down after a few laps and LFA won against it. Overall, the LFA never placed better than 12th and mostly around 20 - 25th overall through out its career. Lexus even tried coming up with a more potent version of the LFA called LFA Code X, which had the 5.3 Liter V10 (stroked version of the 4.8 Liter V10) in order to compete in the more competitive SP3 class. TMC again failed to get good wins with the LFA Code X and the LFA Code X was short lived.

By all accounts, the Gazoo LFA was a failure in terms of getting big wins. TMC only raced the LFA a few seasons and then scrapped it in favor of the RCF GT3 in 2016 - 2017. The RCF GT3 over the next 10 years won a lot of races in far tougher endurance series despite having a much smaller R&D budget and being an inferior platform on paper than the Gazoo LFA.
I don't have any kind of bias against Lexus F. Toyota Gazoo Racing OVERALL is way more successful than Lexus F (the amount of overall victories in LeMans, etc.) The only Lexus F car that has really been notable is the RCF GT3 (which you spent 70 percent of your response talking about). I am not denying that Lexus needs a successor to the RCF, and that it should be badged as a Lexus, but I think just having everything under the same Racing Division makes sense. I think it is integral for Lexus to remain apart of the identity im not denying that. However, to have everything under Gazoo Racing makes more sense as overall it still has more prestige, having won the LeMans 24h 5 times in a row.
 
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Nobody knows what "Gazoo Racing" is, let's get real here. The whole point of "F" was to build a brand consumers gave a **** about. You don't get to ride on loyal brand customers then act like you're entitled to step all over everything at the drop of a hat.

I'll post this again:
The GR Corolla GR Supra and GR86 are infinitely more popular than the 10 year old Lexus RCF. The fact is Lexus dug the F brand into the ground, and it will take a while to repair the reputation.
 

Gecko

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The GR Corolla GR Supra and GR86 are infinitely more popular than the 10 year old Lexus RCF. The fact is Lexus dug the F brand into the ground, and it will take a while to repair the reputation.

They're infinitely more popular because they are also infinitely less expensive and Toyota put actual effort into marketing, maintaining, and updating them. Toyota cut off all funding and support for F in favor of GR and FWD CUVs many years ago.

Somehow there is a whole world of people who believe a new IS F, LC F, GS, LS, LFA, LFR, RC, etc, are just around the corner... check out the /Lexus subreddit. It is a very wild place...
 

Gor134

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The whole point of "F" was to build a brand consumers gave a **** about.

Take a look at Hyundai and Genesis.

N is hugely successful in motorsports and road cars.. yet Genesis isn't getting N-branded products. They're getting their own performance line derived from N under "Magma" because they know a brand associated with lower end Hyundais shouldn't cross with Genesis.

That's why I don't think expanding GR to Lexus products would be the right move. F would've been more successful if Toyota didn't halt all of it's developments and launch half-assed products. As amazing as the GS-F is for example, that should have been a GS500 F-Sport Performance (iirc GS500 was trademarked before GSF) etc.
 

Gor134

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Somehow there is a whole world of people who believe a new IS F, LC F, GS, LS, LFA, LFR, RC, etc, are just around the corner... check out the /Lexus subreddit. It is a very wild place...
Ugh, tell me about it.

As well as the /cars subreddit.

I was told, and I quote, that I was "doing performance art" for suggesting that Lexus will NOT be getting more enthusiast-focused models despite their HQ/R&D moving Shimoyama alongside GR and Toyota.
 

Levi

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The GR Corolla GR Supra and GR86 are infinitely more popular than the 10 year old Lexus RCF. The fact is Lexus dug the F brand into the ground, and it will take a while to repair the reputation.
Nobody calls them GR, just Supra, 86, etc. GR is so after thought and sounds more like a sponsor on Toyota race cars.

What happened to TRD? There was even Lexus ISF TRD…

And there still is TRD for off-road in NA market.