A Refreshed Prado is in the Wings: What Could this Mean for the GX?

[Carmaker1]

I've been very particular about publicizing this, but will do so now anyway. Like this shown 2 years ago of the 200 (below), this is the mild update to the Prado 150, in a rendering from the June issue of Mag X I bought last month.

2015 200 renderings

Official Toyota...



2008 200 vs 2012 200 Mk. II vs 2016 200 Mk. III

Looking at the minor changes expected, like the 200, what can we expect for the 2018 GX, if you study the amount of changes the LX got in late 2015 for JDM launch. The Japanese trademark filing for GX400, is likely related to JDM intro.

2015 renderings of J200


Official J200 III in Prototype Form 2015 vs 2016 LX

What can we expect in regard to GX changes, which might be more than the Prado will receive?

 

[maiaramdan]

@Carmaker1
We need new thread for all of 'em
And i honestly have another question
Is there any new body on frame chassis ?
like a totally new or upgraded wheel base than this long run one?
and when wes can expect it ?

 

[Carmaker1]

I really did not want this in its own thread, as not many people will care to read this here, unlike that of my 2020 thread. I made a mistake, misreading maiaramdan's off-topic GX comment in my 5GS thread and intended to post this in my other thread regarding future products through 2020.

@Carmaker1
We need new thread for all of 'em
And i honestly have another question
Is there any new body on frame chassis ?
like a totally new or upgraded wheel base than this long run one?
and when wes can expect it ?

Unfortunately I took your post in another thread out of context and mis-posted. Glad you found my comment.

I had commented before a number of times that TNGA-F will debut with the next generation Land Cruiser (likely 300-Series), before spreading to other Toyota and Lexus utility vehicles (such as LX and maybe GX).

For now the J150 GX will see major changes for the 2018 MY and be launched in Japan in RHD. The updated Prado 150 will arrive beforehand in September, even if some people have doubted the validity of my latest predictions regarding body-on-frame Toyota Motor Co. products. I am just glad that this proves it for once.

The Hilux Surf is coming back to Japan reportedly, so we'll see if I am right about that. I am not commenting on the 300-Series in any respect for now, as I only will discuss that once I hear new information direct from Toyota (that like to drag their feet on everything and run scared).

 

[CIF]

TNGA-F is very likely to be a modular/flexible BOF platform that will be the basis for all Toyota/Lexus BOF products moving forward. I agree that 300 Series Land Cruiser will likely see the first application of it, followed by other products. Likely we won't see a TNGA-F vehicle for at least 2-3 years.

 

[mikeavelli]

New engines I hope!!!

 

[Gecko]

New engines I hope!!!

My only worry about that is what engines would they use? I'd be really shocked if they chose to put a brand new engine into what is really a 14 year old platform at this point. They've also not shown any other new (Dynamic Force) V6 that would be suitable for a 4,700lb SUV, and they have no new V8s.

5.7L V8 with the 8AT would be nice, but maybe too much engine for how soft the GX is.

TT V6 with ~350hp/375lb-ft and at least an 8AT would be really nice.

 

[Brandon B]

If Toyota does opt to refresh the 4R and GX and hold off on the use of the new global platform for a few more years, my guess is that both will carry on much the same. Perhaps a new tranny with more gears and some interior and exterior tweaks.

Based on the last Tacoma "redesign", I am not expecting much come fall. I would be pleasantly surprised and thrilled if I am wrong, ha!

 

[CIF]

My only worry about that is what engines would they use? I'd be really shocked if they chose to put a brand new engine into what is really a 14 year old platform at this point. They've also not shown any other new (Dynamic Force) V6 that would be suitable for a 4,700lb SUV, and they have no new V8s.

5.7L V8 with the 8AT would be nice, but maybe too much engine for how soft the GX is.

TT V6 with ~350hp/375lb-ft and at least an 8AT would be really nice.

When Toyota had the TNGA press release, we saw a whole family of Dynamic Force engines that are coming. The new TT V6 is a Dynamic Force engine. There has to be at least one Dynamic Force V8 engine coming. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a new Dynamic Force engine coming just for trucks/SUVs, like the current 5.7L 3UR.

 

[spwolf]

I've been very particular about publicizing this, but will do so now anyway. Like this shown 2 years ago of the 200 (below), this is the mild update to the Prado 150, in a rendering from the June issue of Mag X I bought last month.

If I had to guess:
- interior changes with some rearranged instruments, larger screen and latest multimedia.
- updated TSS system to latest spec.
- small changes to suspension and exterior looks as on that pic.

Updated engines could be possible for some markets as well.

As to that mag, what about Mark X and Avensis on above pic?

 

[Gecko]

When Toyota had the TNGA press release, we saw a whole family of Dynamic Force engines that are coming. The new TT V6 is a Dynamic Force engine. There has to be at least one Dynamic Force V8 engine coming. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a new Dynamic Force engine coming just for trucks/SUVs, like the current 5.7L 3UR.

Agree, I just would be very shocked if they put in all-new engine into what will essentially be a 15 year old platform at that point. It seems to me that TNGA(-L) and Dynamic Force go together.

 

[spwolf]

Agree, I just would be very shocked if they put in all-new engine into what will essentially be a 15 year old platform at that point. It seems to me that TNGA(-L) and Dynamic Force go together.

While Toyota is quickly turning to TNGA vehicles, it is not going to be that quick. I mean by 2020 which is not that soon, they expect 60% of vehicles to be TNGA. They will not disregard 40% of vehicles they make because they are not TNGA.

So for instance, new 1.5l engine in updated Yaris is all-new estec engine, and it is going on old platform. It is also likely to come to TNGA in few months when new Auris is announced.

60% by 2020 also gives impression that many body on frame vehicles wont be on TNGA anytime soon or at least wont be called TNGA-X or anything similar.

 

[Amr Ahmed]

New Toyota prado 2018 http://www.caradvice.com.au/554410/...facelift-leaked/toyota-landcruiser-prado-leak

 

[Carmaker1]

New Toyota prado 2018 http://www.caradvice.com.au/554410/...facelift-leaked/toyota-landcruiser-prado-leak

Now this is what I'm talking about, excellent work Mr Ahmed. I knew to expect a May 2017 leak and soon for the GX400.

On another note, I am extremely irritated and disappointed with Bank of America Merrill Lynch predictions as they're not always 100 percent accurate and judging by their record, does have holes in it.

I would like to see them prove their theory on such products arriving as 2019 model year vehicles. If the Prado is getting updated and GX as well this fall for JDM RHD intro, how the hell is a redesign going to be issued next year for any market?

I can understand hoping for a new 2019 4Runner, but extrapolating that the GX will be redesigned next year greatly insults my intelligence and that of others. We'll see indeed if I am right, regarding Hilux Surf redux and GX face-lift alongside the new Prado in September. Then again, I don't know everything, in not being amongst Toyoda's closest advisors nor the man himself.

All of this is often a gamble for many of us, that specialize in predicting market trends, product development and launch patterns across various OEMS.

www.motortrend.com/news/lots-vehicles-especially-crossovers-way-next-four-years/

 

[CIF]

Excellent point Carmaker1, however I will also add based on all my research, Toyota's product cycles are in a weird situation. Most of their car-based models are still on reasonable cycles, but as we can obviously see, all of Toyota's body-on-frame vehicles are on product cycles that are currently all over the map. Would Toyota release a redesigned Prado or GX so soon after a refresh? Very unlikely I agree, but strange things have happened with Toyota product cycles on rare occasion. The most recent example I remember is a few years ago, when the model year 2011 Avalon debuted as a significant refresh. The exterior was updated, and the interior received a heavy refresh. Then, soon after, the 2013 model year Avalon debuted as completely redesigned. I remember at the time that was very odd to me, for Toyota to have done a heavy refresh on a model, and to then release a complete redesign so soon afterwords. Since that was a car-based model, I don't know if the same will happen here.

On a grander scale, what will be most interesting to me for Toyota is exactly how they respond to market demand. Crossovers, trucks, and SUVs are all in great demand currently, and looks like will continue to be for the next few years at least. Toyota has been slow so far to adjust to this trend. Even though this trend has been current for a few years now, and customers as well as dealers have been heavily clamoring for redesigns of many of the body-on-frame Toyota models, Toyota has been very slow to respond. The 4Runner and GX got refreshes a few years ago, the Tundra got a decent refresh a few years ago, the Land Cruiser got a small refresh too, but the Sequoia was left rotting and dated. Now we are getting some lame duck small refreshes for the Sequoia and Tundra. The Tacoma also did get a "redesign" after such a long time, and a tiny refresh a few years before that. However this new Tacoma "redesign" is nothing more than a heavy refresh in reality. It's not a true redesign. If Toyota continues dragging their feet so slowly over the next few years with regards to body-on-frame products, then the market will punish them.

 

[spwolf]

it actually looks very nice, much better than previous facelift

 

[Gecko]

I really like the facelift - its sharp looking. Can anyone decipher information about engines/transmissions?

 

[Carmaker1]

I really like the facelift - its sharp looking. Can anyone decipher information about engines/transmissions?

I'll try, but not sure of the publication for me to "order" from as a "Japan resident". The picture posted isn't clear enough for us to translate it at the moment.

I am becoming convinced that Toyota tried to end the 4Runner and GX, while intending on keeping the Prado in the global marketplace and maybe even bringing it stateside, even if it meant leaving the Tundra as with Toyota's special vertical rolling rear window. The 4Runner has become less and less of a Hilux/Tacoma SUV. The Fortuner pretty much took that role and the Tacoma has been separate from it since 2009 and even more as of 2015. No matter anyone wants to still believe, it is NOT a Tacoma SUV like the 2003 4Runner and 2005 Tacoma were.

With TNGA-F, they would do better to consolidate the 4Runner and Prado into one model by 2021, while remaking the GX with a fully unique top hat on the same set-up as the Toyota "Prado" 4Runner (180-Series). The GX should become as a family-sized (7-pass) discount Gelandewagen/G-Class competitor and take over where the previous generation Discovery/LR4 left off.

Let the LX be the most elite and ultra-luxurious body-on-frame 8-seater. It will never be a Range Rover, as long as its not a unibody 5-seater.

Someone really needs to make the case to me, as to why they should just keep the 4Runner as a distinct U.S.-only model, built in Japan and not just align it with the Prado with cheap to high-priced trim levels. Are the production costs for the Prado higher, that it makes the proposition redundant? Hence being badge-engineered as a Lexus, unlike there really being no true Lexus 4Runner counterpart?

Clearly the Prado makes so much money, that they couldn't give a damn about the 4Runner for some weird reason (is it a money loser?) and GX just can't compare to RX sales. While I haven't seen anything definitive on the MY 2018 GX and 4Runner, I am rather irritated (but not surprised = no TSS/LSS+) they'd update the Prado this time around, but supposedly not do anything else for the others.

 

[spwolf]

Clearly the Prado makes so much money, that they couldn't give a damn about the 4Runner for some weird reason (is it a money loser?) and GX just can't compare to RX sales. While I haven't seen anything definitive on the MY 2018 GX and 4Runner, I am rather irritated (but not surprised = no TSS/LSS+) they'd update the Prado this time around, but supposedly not do anything else for the others.

I would say otherwise, there is clearly enough money in 4Runner that they keep it updated.

Quite possibly decisions that might have been made 5-6 years ago in recession when it comes to GX and 4Runner are changed now due to successful facelifts and sales. And it is waiting for new platform to become available?

Both sell really well in NA now.

 

[Amr Ahmed]

New images

 

[Gecko]

Nice update, for sure. Thanks for sharing the pics!