7th Generation (2019+) Lexus ES (250, 260, 300h, 350) Megathread

[Levi]

I have never really cared about the ES because it is and FWD (I say this from an 'enthusiast's' perspective rather than a buyer's perspective). But after looking at the ES' previous generations and comparing them to the previous GS' generations, I have to admit I always liked the looks of the ES better than the GS. The ES always looked more sporty, agile, svelte, in someway like a modern 4 door coupe, the first 'Mercedes CLS'. The GS in comparison looked like a classical more 'boring' executive sedan. I can see customers going for the stylish ES over the GS. In the same way, the RX always looked very sporty, an agile CUV/SUV, very coupe-ish, especially after the first generation. Interestingly the ES and RX are the most successful models, and ironically while looking sporty have been criticized for boring driving dynamics.

While not perfect (what is perfect?) I have grown to like the looks of the ES, and find it a good looking car for a FWD sedan.

 

[Levi]

Well, the Lexus ES (XZ10) must be a good car if the criminals chose it, here trying to steal a Mercedes E Coupe (C238).



Edit: As Gecko points out, the car driven by the criminals is a Toyota Camry (XV70).

 

[CRSKTN]

But after looking at the ES' previous generations and comparing them to the previous GS' generations, I have to admit I always liked the looks of the ES better than the GS. The ES always looked more sporty, agile, svelte, in someway like a modern 4 door coupe, the first 'Mercedes CLS'. The GS in comparison looked like a classical more 'boring' executive sedan

*head explodes*

 

[Gecko]

Well, the Lexus ES (XZ10) must be a good car if the criminals chose it, here trying to steal a Mercedes E Coupe (C238).

Close! That is a Camry SE.

 

[mikeavelli]

I have never really cared about the ES because it is and FWD (I say this from an 'enthusiast's' perspective rather than a buyer's perspective). But after looking at the ES' previous generations and comparing them to the previous GS' generations, I have to admit I always liked the looks of the ES better than the GS. The ES always looked more sporty, agile, svelte, in someway like a modern 4 door coupe, the first 'Mercedes CLS'. The GS in comparison looked like a classical more 'boring' executive sedan. I can see customers going for the stylish ES over the GS. In the same way, the RX always looked very sporty, an agile CUV/SUV, very coupe-ish, especially after the first generation. Interestingly the ES and RX are the most successful models, and ironically while looking sporty have been criticized for boring driving dynamics.

While not perfect (what is perfect?) I have grown to like the looks of the ES, and find it a good looking car for a FWD sedan.

I remember the reaction when the last generation ES debuted and while the front was messy the rest of the car had a nice sporty profile. Then the GS came and it was much boxier and upright. The ES continued to grow in size and the GS stayed the same length but got wider. It cause quite a stir. Shouldn't the GS look sportier?

The GS before that was the sporty looking 4 door coupe, I think the 2006-2011 model has aged magnificently. The ES at the time was not a looker.

 

[maiaramdan]

As if they have been taken the decision to kill the GS from the second half of the 0s

 

[ssun30]

Now that the GS is gone for good, we have to think about what's next for ES. Supposedly the ES should be refreshed in the second half of next year or early 2022 at the latest.

At the bottom, the ES200 has already been updated with the new M20A-FKS engine (replacing 6AR-FSE) so nothing will change mechanically.

NA could be receiving an ES250 with DTC-AWD. It would need to be priced quite low (<$37k) to convince NA buyers to even consider it. Lexus will get absolutely shamed and embarrassed by the media for this uninspiring niche product.

I expect nothing to change to the ES350 as replacing the V6 with a turbo-4 could be poorly received in NA. The 2.4T would also necessitate AWD as standard, but we know the ES was not designed with mechanical AWD in mind.

The only chance for Lexus to redeem the situation and fill the gap left by the GS is elevating the hybrid model:

The 300h should be upgraded to the 350h with E-Four as an option. Lexus can't just tell AWD buyer to go for the 250. The 350h system has 13% power increase and more importantly 34% torque increase over the 300h system without impact to efficiency. Right now the 300h is more expensive than the 350 but also 30% slower. Bridging the performance gap would make it a more convincing option especially with AWD capability. Using a different hybrid system would also further differentiate it from the Avalon.

Of course, now that we know E-Axle is coming, Lexus now has to make a high power PHV to top the range. The upper limit is 250kW/335hp if the ICE is A25A-FXS, or 340kW/455hp if the ICE is the new 2.4T. I of course hope the latter is true as an 'ES-F h+', with a lower-cost 'ES450h+' option using the RAV4 Prime E-Four system.

Six ES models (200/250/350/350h/450h+/Fh+) sound like a lot but that's actually same as the GS (300RWD/300AWD/300h/350/450h/F).

We don't know if the interior design will be changed. But the NX is supposed to launch a new design language for Lexus interior (mostly to adapt to touchscreen control) and I hope the ES could match it.

I also think they should pair higher-end powertrain with a 4-seat 'executive 2nd row' trim, which is increasingly popular in China. The current ES300h Executive doesn't offer proper luxury 2nd row so Lexus is missing the very lucrative (and competitive) ￥500k market.

 

[Levi]

Looking at Lexus owner reviews, they are sastified with the trackpad. Only journalists bash it and those repeating journalists words without even trying it.

It is ironic how joysticks were considered an upgrade over touch screens, but now makers revert back to touchscreens. (Yes, I know, touch screens have improved, are responsive with high quality display.)

But I find touch screens bring down sides: to be easier and more comfortable to interect with they should be place closer and lower, but to glance easier on a screen is better when it is place higher and further.

 

[Will1991]

@Levi , for me the best infotainment system from a user perspective view was the BMW's iDrive from the E90 series era, clean and simple to use.

I just hoje Toyota/Lexus don't follow what Tesla did, even to open the glovebox you have to use the touch screes... It's just too much.

 

[Ian Schmidt]

Looking at Lexus owner reviews, they are sastified with the trackpad. Only journalists bash it and those repeating journalists words without even trying it.

It is ironic how joysticks were considered an upgrade over touch screens, but now makers revert back to touchscreens. (Yes, I know, touch screens have improved, are responsive with high quality display.)

I like touchscreens a lot, but in a car it definitely increases the amount of driver distraction involved in interaction. They're fine for strictly passenger screens (like the 5LS's rear passenger control screen in the Luxury and Executive packages) but for driver-facing some kind of other controller is better/safer. I like the current touchpad a lot more than the previous joystick, but I think there are still improvements to be made.

 

[internalaudit]

I think it's safe to say we know better Lexus products are coming to market and we on Lexus Enthusiasts patiently wait. The Osborne Effect is definitely at play here for loyalists and for those who know how excruciatingly long a Lexus product life cycle and mid-product cycle are.

I prefer a touch screen infotainment system especially if there are so many sub-levels to dive into and get out of. To be honest, I'm only on a data only plan and I'm not in Sales so I will not (won't be able to) bother picking up any calls lol while on the road unless it's a big lottery winner sharing his bounty with me. But the infotainment system will never be a deal breaker to me especially with CP/AA being already standard on many Lexus and Toyota products.

Smartest infotainment systems would allow each user to customize what's on the primary, secondary and tertiary screens and maybe allow for simple voice commands like "go back". Even our Garmin 55 can do voice commands well since there are only four commands I can throw at it.

 

[LexsCTJill]

I think it's safe to say we know better Lexus products are coming to market and we on Lexus Enthusiasts patiently wait. The Osborne Effect is definitely at play here for loyalists and for those who know how excruciatingly long a Lexus product life cycle and mid-product cycle are.

I prefer a touch screen infotainment system especially if there are so many sub-levels to dive into and get out of. To be honest, I'm only on a data only plan and I'm not in Sales so I will not (won't be able to) bother picking up any calls lol while on the road unless it's a big lottery winner sharing his bounty with me. But the infotainment system will never be a deal breaker to me especially with CP/AA being already standard on many Lexus and Toyota products.

Smartest infotainment systems would allow each user to customize what's on the primary, secondary and tertiary screens and maybe allow for simple voice commands like "go back". Even our Garmin 55 can do voice commands well since there are only four commands I can throw at it.

I agree with you.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

Looking at Lexus owner reviews, they are sastified with the trackpad. Only journalists bash it and those repeating journalists words without even trying it.

It is ironic how joysticks were considered an upgrade over touch screens, but now makers revert back to touchscreens. (Yes, I know, touch screens have improved, are responsive with high quality display.)

But I find touch screens bring down sides: to be easier and more comfortable to interect with they should be place closer and lower, but to glance easier on a screen is better when it is place higher and further.

I prefer touchscreens because they are more intuitive...for someone doing a quick review, its much easier to use. If only journalists bashed it, you can figure some buyers were also turned off too, because I read about it on non-Lexus forums as well (Sales don't lie). I think now, a lot of reviewers are less likely to hate it as much because of Carplay. I've used it myself and find that it makes any car better, even if you don't like the car itself, especially if you are renting it.

I've not tried the touchpad but I've gotten use to the controller on the RX and ES, and personally, I'm not a fan of either one, and would prefer the intuitive touch, much like a hand brake (and manual transmission). Journalists don't spend the time it takes to get used to it, and IMO, it does take more time to get acclimated to it. Consumers seem to like the systems of the Europeans more, so it is what it is.

 

[LexsCTJill]

I prefer touchscreens because they are more intuitive...for someone doing a quick review, its much easier to use. If only journalists bashed it, you can figure some buyers were also turned off too, because I read about it on non-Lexus forums as well (Sales don't lie). I think now, a lot of reviewers are less likely to hate it as much because of Carplay. I've used it myself and find that it makes any car better, even if you don't like the car itself, especially if you are renting it.

I've not tried the touchpad but I've gotten use to the controller on the RX and ES, and personally, I'm not a fan of either one, and would prefer the intuitive touch, much like a hand brake (and manual transmission). Journalists don't spend the time it takes to get used to it, and IMO, it does take more time to get acclimated to it. Consumers seem to like the systems of the Europeans more, so it is what it is.

I have use the CarPlay in the Avalon. It is OK, but after a while you start to notice there are quite a few drawbacks of it. There are good things and there are bad things

 

[Tragic Bronson]

I have use the CarPlay in the Avalon. It is OK, but after a while you start to notice there are quite a few drawbacks of it. There are good things and there are bad things

I use it for the maps, and found it better than any factory GPS. As for music, I don't so someone else may not like it as much, but for what I use it for, it works, especially if you drive a vehicle w/o factory nav. In rental cars where I'm in an area not familiar to me, maps is essential. I hate having to look at my iPhone to see the direction (I prefer visual over hearing directions). My current Corolla is old and only has Bluetooth, so it will be a must have feature in my next car.

 

[LexsCTJill]

I use it for the maps, and found it better than any factory GPS. As for music, I don't so someone else may not like it as much, but for what I use it for, it works, especially if you drive a vehicle w/o factory nav. In rental cars where I'm in an area not familiar to me, maps is essential. I hate having to look at my iPhone to see the direction (I prefer visual over hearing directions). My current Corolla is old and only has Bluetooth, so it will be a must have feature in my next car.

I agree that for a new car it is a must. However I do like the higher and Toyota or Lexus mapping and the way it works with the whole system. For example Apple CarPlay does not work with the heads up displays, where is the Toyota navigation or the Lexus navigation even pops up in the heads up display near the end but not constant. And then there’s also the route guidance voiceover which I find superior in the Toyota

 

[ssun30]

The trackpad is indeed a good enough system but still doesn't compare to the 2-screen layout that's really popular these days (the Crown uses it). The 2-screen system was invented to be easier and safer to operate than a single big screen. It is less distracting since you only have to look at the bigger screen (like in a trackpad/dial system); your fingers intuitively know where to touch on the smaller screen like how you don't need to stare at your keyboard to type things.

The Tesla-style huge screen is indeed a PITA to use. Physical buttons and dials should always have a place in cars especially for operating AC in cold weather.

I think the Mirai 2 interior is a hint to what the NX/next-gen Lexus interior will look like. Unfortunately it's built around a huge touchscreen. But at least they keep all the essential physical control.

 

[LexsCTJill]

The trackpad is indeed a good enough system but still doesn't compare to the 2-screen layout that's really popular these days (the Crown uses it). The 2-screen system was invented to be easier and safer to operate than a single big screen. It is less distracting since you only have to look at the bigger screen (like in a trackpad/dial system); your fingers intuitively know where to touch on the smaller screen like how you don't need to stare at your keyboard to type things.

The Tesla-style huge screen is indeed a PITA to use. Physical buttons and dials should always have a place in cars especially for operating AC in cold weather.

I think the Mirai 2 interior is a hint to what the NX/next-gen Lexus interior will look like. Unfortunately it's built around a huge touchscreen. But at least they keep all the essential physical control.

I think trackpad or touch screen is fine, even if they are both offered as long as there are a number of redundant controls. What drives me crazy is when you have do a multistep process to simply turn something OFF/ON....for example, turning ON/OFF the air conditioning button is a real pain in the UX, but it is not in the Avalon. One has a dedicated button, the other does not. All of my pre touchscreen/remote touches have no complaints whatsoever about changing the radio, the HVAC or what not...but the modern stuff can be a real chore.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

Interesting...when my dad drives his ES, he hardly uses the NAV. He prefers to open Google Maps instead. Now I just wish Carplay was available on the previous ES.

 

[Levi]

Cars are like smartphones now, they are a tracing device. But the smartphone I can leave at home, the car...