5th Generation (2018+) Lexus LS 500 & LS 500h Megathread

[Gecko]

The 5LS was just too compromised, tried to serve too many masters, and ended up being "ok" at everything and great at nothing.

GA-L + 5.0L V8 and positioning the LS as the 4-door LC would have been the best product decision they could have made, but instead, they went to a super stiff platform, soft suspension, and weak, unrefined engine that didn't fit the chassis. On top of that, LS was also down on interior space and tech. So who is this car for? Sporty buyers more power/V8, luxury buyers wanted more space, and almost all flagship buyers want more tech and luxury.

If LS had been more pure as a dramatic flagship sport sedan (4-door LC), or as a marshmallow luxury cruiser with more space and comfort, it would have been more successful. It was neither, so now it is gone.

 

[LCLFV]

Was watching Savagegeese's mechanical observations of the LC vs LS I was surprised to learn that the LC had significantly more aluminum components in its chassis and other areas than the LS. Still not sure why Lexus made that decision.

 

[blackjack214]

The 5LS was just too compromised, tried to serve too many masters, and ended up being "ok" at everything and great at nothing.

GA-L + 5.0L V8 and positioning the LS as the 4-door LC would have been the best product decision they could have made, but instead, they went to a super stiff platform, soft suspension, and weak, unrefined engine that didn't fit the chassis. On top of that, LS was also down on interior space and tech. So who is this car for? Sporty buyers more power/V8, luxury buyers wanted more space, and almost all flagship buyers want more tech and luxury.

If LS had been more pure as a dramatic flagship sport sedan (4-door LC), or as a marshmallow luxury cruiser with more space and comfort, it would have been more successful. It was neither, so now it is gone.

GA-L 4-door coupe GS and 3-box sedan LS would go sooo hard. It still haunts me what Lexus has become, regardless of how hard I try to accept it.

 

[ssun30]

The 4 door coupe segment never took off as the German brands expected. The 4 door AMG GT, 8 series Gran Coupe, A7 never sold that well compared to their true sedan counterparts. The death of 3 box sedan is greatly exaggerated.

 

[Gor134]

The 4 door coupe segment never took off as the German brands expected. The 4 door AMG GT, 8 series Gran Coupe, A7 never sold that well compared to their true sedan counterparts. The death of 3 box sedan is greatly exaggerated.

That could be attributed to weak efforts from the OEMs too. 1st gen and 2nd gen CLS were solid alongside the 6er Gran Coupe and 1st gen A7.

Audi got lackluster with the C8 gen A7 lost a lot of the visual flair and powertrain options were weak.. 335hp V6 base.. no more V8 on the S7, and RS7 very expensive. 8er Gran Coupe was really a 6-series with an expensive price tag. CLS got an A-Class inspired front end and lost all the V8 options to make room for the overpriced GT 4-door.

I think the segment really died because of the brands, TBH.

 

[blackjack214]

That could be attributed to weak efforts from the OEMs too. 1st gen and 2nd gen CLS were solid alongside the 6er Gran Coupe and 1st gen A7.

Audi got lackluster with the C8 gen A7 lost a lot of the visual flair and powertrain options were weak.. 335hp V6 base.. no more V8 on the S7, and RS7 very expensive. 8er Gran Coupe was really a 6-series with an expensive price tag. CLS got an A-Class inspired front end and lost all the V8 options to make room for the overpriced GT 4-door.

I think the segment really died because of the brands, TBH.

Agree with everything. Latest CLS lost all its presence, 8 series was just a marketing exercise to charge more money for what would be the 6. 1st gen A7 was a BEAUTY imo

 

[LCLFV]

The last gen CLS was an interesting case. When it came out it was the first to introduce the "modern" Mercedes facia, the first executive sedan to have their new inline 6, and was available with certain Designo options that were not available on the E-Class. It made sense at the time as the intermediary between the E-Class and the S-Class, which also had that inline 6.

But as each year went, the car became less and less special because of Mercedes themselves. First they introduce the new A-Class with the exact same front end. Then they introduce the new CLA with the exact same rear side profile and roofline. Both of those also had better technology because they were equipped with MBUX rather than the outdated Command system on the CLS. Then the real kicker was the AMG GT 4-Door, which essentially took over where higher-end trims of older AMG CLS's would be. And that car eventually also offered the same lower engine trims as the CLS.

The death knell of the CLS was the refresh W213 E-Class. It finally received the same inline 6 as the CLS, also received MBUX, and despite being a "lesser car" had far more customization options that were removed from the CLS over the years. For example, you could get air suspension and rear climate controls on a W213 but not a CLS. And then the finishing blow - killing the AMG engine on the CLS 53 after the facelift so that the only version on the sale was the basic CLS 450.

By the end of its run the CLS was just a wrung-out husk with literally nothing special to offer over anything else in the Mercedes lineup. That's also reflected on the used market where they're surprisingly easy to find despite very low sales numbers (only ~1000 were sold per year in the US). It's a shame because I think it in its final generation was one of the most beautiful cars Mercedes made in recent years, much prettier than the bloated GT 4-door.

 

[DarkSpace6383]

The 4 door coupe segment never took off as the German brands expected. The 4 door AMG GT, 8 series Gran Coupe, A7 never sold that well compared to their true sedan counterparts. The death of 3 box sedan is greatly exaggerated.

I mean it seems to be selling well enough for merc to make another one, same with Audi. The 8-series was just overpriced and poorly executed tbh.

 

[mikeavelli]

A friends in Atlanta

 

[DarkSpace6383]

A friends in Atlanta
View attachment 10890

rip ride quality...to each their own i guess

 

[CRSKTN]

https://www.motor1.com/news/786107/toyota-three-row-suv-teaser/

Hey guys here's your new living room on wheels.

LS?

What's an LS?

 

[Gor134]

eugh.. another slopover with a fixed glass roof that neither opens nor has a physical shade 🤦

 

[mikeavelli]

The 5LS was just too compromised, tried to serve too many masters, and ended up being "ok" at everything and great at nothing.

GA-L + 5.0L V8 and positioning the LS as the 4-door LC would have been the best product decision they could have made, but instead, they went to a super stiff platform, soft suspension, and weak, unrefined engine that didn't fit the chassis. On top of that, LS was also down on interior space and tech. So who is this car for? Sporty buyers more power/V8, luxury buyers wanted more space, and almost all flagship buyers want more tech and luxury.

If LS had been more pure as a dramatic flagship sport sedan (4-door LC), or as a marshmallow luxury cruiser with more space and comfort, it would have been more successful. It was neither, so now it is gone.

I was at the first showing of the car in Miami and had my LS 460 F sport. When i saw it and found it it didn’t have a V-8 i never considered it to replace my 460.

if I don’t buy the product that probably means it’s a miss. I was ideal LS customer, younger who showed it everywhere. I like the 500 and have thought about it but it never compelled me. Mind you it drives much better than the 460 which drives like a turtle .

 

[Ian Schmidt]

I was at the first showing of the car in Miami and had my LS 460 F sport. When i saw it and found it it didn’t have a V-8 i never considered it to replace my 460.

if I don’t buy the product that probably means it’s a miss. I was ideal LS customer, younger who showed it everywhere. I like the 500 and have thought about it but it never compelled me. Mind you it drives much better than the 460 which drives like a turtle .

Yeah. I love my LS, especially in post-2021 form with Lexus Interface and the improved throttle mapping. Flinging a full-size sedan around curves with no drama still brings a smile to my face. But the interior room is not good for the size of the car, they didn't fully commit to the sportiness with the ECU/TCU tuning, and the TTV8 never happened. *sigh*

 

[LCLFV]

Found this old Motor Trend article from 2011 featuring comments from Akio concerning the LS at the time. Even back then you could sense his disdain for the brand.

The Big Picture: Saving Lexus

Read on to learn more about why Lexus, Toyota's luxury-car brand, is in need of an overhaul, by Motor Trend's Angus MacKenzie.

www.motortrend.com

"Lexus was born out of a unique situation," says Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda. "A single company giving birth to two brands is unique. We wanted a car to compete with the S-Class. However, back then we did not regard Lexus as a brand, but as a distribution channel."

Toyoda takes the role of being Lexus' leader seriously. "I am passionate about the future of Lexus, and wanted to be personally involved. I want Lexus to be the car the most sophisticated drivers want to drive, and once they've driven one they never want to drive anything else." Yet, when asked what Lexus should stand for, his face clouds, and he pauses. "We need a clear message. That's one thing I have difficulty with: coming up with a clear definition."

It was right in front of us the entire time.

 

[b.ba]

Found this old Motor Trend article from 2011 featuring comments from Akio concerning the LS at the time. Even back then you could sense his disdain for the brand.

The Big Picture: Saving Lexus

Read on to learn more about why Lexus, Toyota's luxury-car brand, is in need of an overhaul, by Motor Trend's Angus MacKenzie.

www.motortrend.com

It was right in front of us the entire time.

Something something "the relentless pursuit of perfection" and "experience amazing" weren't good enough themes Lexus stand for?

 

[Levi]

I hope history remembers Akio Toyota as the man who hated Lexus and killed it.

 

[ssun30]

Toyota stealing from Lexus to create a better product is actually the norm not an exception. It's just that they used to do that only in JDM but now they are doing it at the international scale.

The Celsior was a better equipped LS400 with second row VIP seating (recline and massage). The S140 Aristo had 4.0L V8 AWD and 2JZ-GTE options while the 1GS only had the 2JZ-GE (GS also never got AWD V8 in its entire life cycle). The Z30 Soarer V8 model had the first fully active suspension system and GPS navigation in the world and also a 1JZ-GTE MT option. The Altezza was arguably cooler than the 1IS, especially the RS200 model with 6MT 3S-GE BEAMS. The Mark X was also cooler than the later 2IS and 3IS (until the IS500 of course). The J100 Land Cruiser Cygnus had world's first night vision system on a car.

While most international businesses have certain degrees of domestic market superiority complex, Japanese companies are the worst offenders. They have a habit of keeping "forbidden fruit" products exclusive to JDM for decades and it's a very important reason they have been declining on the global stage.

The 4LS, 5LS, LC, and the F lineup are actually the only products that are exclusively Lexus and never have equivalent/superior Toyota counterparts. And Akio Toyoda wants to "fix" that.

 

[Ali Manai]

Well most people gloss over a simple fact lexus was made primarily for the US market as in most Asian and European markets Toyota is still considered a mid tier luxury brand but the US was different and Toyota struggled to sell it's luxury cars under the toyota brand of which the prime examples were the toyota mark II, cresta and chaser which failed in the US. Lexus has always been a side project it was only after 2005 Lexus got some more specialities after introduction in Japan and that stayed true until 2020 where we got those awesome models with Gs f, Lc, Lfa and more. After covid everything changed and since Lexus was primarily focused on the US middling policy and uncertainty have greatly undermined product planning add to that changing customer taste and akio's attitude the brand has pretty much regressed except for the 3 or 4 best selling nameplates under lexus. So they decided to move all the experimental ev crap under lexus brand and now lexus is mostly a test bed for future toyota products. There is still some resistance to Toyota in luxury and that is the only reason lexus name exists but given that they haven't properly launched the crown brand even in asia still leaves some hope for lexus

 

[mediumhot]

Lots of Akio speculation and its probably a combination of things but somehow the way I see it he really doesnt understand what Lexus stands for. In his mind Toyota should offer value cars, sports cars, rally cars, hyper cars, chauffeur cars, VIP vans. In his perception Toyota covers all the bases and there is no need for a dedicated Independent affordable luxury sports brand on x axis. Technically GR-GT3 is a model on x axis as it shares very little with rest of the products but its a one off and its considered extreme product just Century one off upcoming Bentley concept knock off.