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Carmaker1
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I have a lot of information about that, which it is indeed pushed back to MY 2022. Toyota is milking it. but a lot of changes are coming. I wonder how much this affects the next RX positioning?
Something tells me that the Prado will get this next year at 3 years out of 5 year life since MMC 2 in Oct '17. The Prado is being redesigned in 36 months time, but I would be surprised if it streches into early 2023. It doesn't make sense to update it for MY 2022, then redesign it the next. Prado changes next year hopefully spill into GX.
The RX AL20 facelift changes were designed till early 2017, but got delayed. It had been testing over 2 years before launch, which test units take a few months to assemble. For ROI purposes, they need 30 months of sales at the very least, through spring 2022.
James
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Damn I was hoping new GX would be late 2021. My lease is up in 2021 and I think that’s what my wife wants next. Ugh might be a year early on that...any F SUV models coming Carmaker1?
Depends on the market. They confirmed one BEV is definitely coming in 2020 (UX300e). But they also said they would prioritize some regions over others. And We know very well the UX300e will be primarily sold in EU/ChDM starting from 2020 while other regions get it after there is free capacity.
Gecko
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For what it's worth, here is my prediction:
New LX: Late 2021 as 2022MY. With the flexibility of TNGA-F and the upcoming LF-1, I think we will see the LX move up to be slightly larger than the Land Cruiser this time, perhaps sharing dimensions with the Sequoia and packing three usable rows (in the most common configuration). What is decided for suspension between IRS (Sequoia) or a solid beam (Land Cruiser), I am not sure. I could see either. But from what I have heard, the next gen LX will have executive seating options (two rows), F Sport, F models and much higher levels of customization and more options. Expect TTV6, a V8 and a hybrid... Dealers have been begging for a Lexus full-size version of the Sequoia and TNGA-F gives them the flexibility to share more parts and platforms to make this an easy reality. Since everything from the Tacoma to the LX will be on the same platform, putting it on the Sequoia platform doesn't seem "cheap" anymore. I think you will easily see $90 - $125k.
LF-1: Late 2020 as a 2021MY or maybe early 2021 as a 2022MY. Something tells me Lexus is going to offer it as a three row model with the third row being two "jump" type of seats. Research shows people want three rows with their CUVs, even if they never use the third row. Maybe they'll offer two and three row versions? No idea. I assume TTV6 will be base with optional plug-in, hybrid and an F V8 model. My assumption is $80-$120k. What's it going to be called? Not LQ, we know that much.
**There is a caveat here with LF-1. They could leave the RX as a two row, FWD "soccer mom" entry, make the LF-1 three rows only and try to move the price down closer to $70-75k. Since LS starts at $75k, this seems doable to me and it would create greater differentiation between RX and LF-1. I am truly unsure of how they will package and deliver the next gen RX and LF-1.**
New GX: 2022 as a 2023MY. TNGA-F BOF midsize, true to form. I don't think it's hard to imagine the formula here. Probably going to also have TTV6 as the base engine, maybe that's the only option? Styling will be very upright and masculine, probably like a mini-LX. I think 2 and 3 row seating options, especially if they move the LX up in price and status. Would be nice to see them offer a 4x2 model for price reasons and warm climate markets $57-75k.
New RX: 2021 as a 2022MY. TNGA-K, but I begin to get fuzzy thinking about how this will fit in with the LF-1. Shoot me for saying this, but I worry that the RX could very easily kill the LF-1 just like the ES cannibalized the GS. Unless the LF-1 is carrying significantly more power, more exclusive options and materials, and looks VERY different, two midsize 2/3 row Lexus crossovers are going to be too competitive under the same roof. I have heard that the RX L is a "one and done" generation, but I also don't know how the current generation is selling. They could keep the RX as a value leader since they're building out the top end of their SUV portfolio with new LX, new GX and LF-1. Where I become more confused is thinking about engine choices. I'm sure the new turbo 4cyl will be the base engine, but Lexus needs to begin offering an RX in the 350-400hp range... or do they decide that is LF-1 territory? I can see the RX being offered as only turbo 4 (base), hybrid 4 cylinder (premium model with more horsepower), and a plug-in. $46-68k.
New NX: Late 2020 as a 2021MY. TNGA-K also. I hear that the new IS is finally coming next year, but a new NX is probably going to be one of the most important Lexus model releases within the next 5 years and they need to get it right, and they need to deliver it soon. Lexus' model releases are getting crowded into 2022 and the NX is quickly falling behind in it's segment. They would be wise to fast track the 2NX and deliver it within 13 months, but I'm not sure if this is feasible. New DF 2.0T base engine with the optional 2.4/2.5L turbo, potentially as an F engine. 2.5L hybrid option like Rav4, 220hp. $37-60k (F).
UX: New, refresh in what, 2021?
With Toyota's SUV lineup growing so quickly, it would be wise for Lexus to invest in something like "F OFF ROAD" like TRD Pro (for GX and LX), and also to deliver a two row baby GX, even if it's unibody. There's a big hole in the market for such a vehicle, and Lexus would be a great brand to introduce such a product.
New LX: Late 2021 as 2022MY. With the flexibility of TNGA-F and the upcoming LF-1, I think we will see the LX move up to be slightly larger than the Land Cruiser this time, perhaps sharing dimensions with the Sequoia and packing three usable rows (in the most common configuration). What is decided for suspension between IRS (Sequoia) or a solid beam (Land Cruiser), I am not sure. I could see either. But from what I have heard, the next gen LX will have executive seating options (two rows), F Sport, F models and much higher levels of customization and more options. Expect TTV6, a V8 and a hybrid... Dealers have been begging for a Lexus full-size version of the Sequoia and TNGA-F gives them the flexibility to share more parts and platforms to make this an easy reality. Since everything from the Tacoma to the LX will be on the same platform, putting it on the Sequoia platform doesn't seem "cheap" anymore. I think you will easily see $90 - $125k.
LF-1: Late 2020 as a 2021MY or maybe early 2021 as a 2022MY. Something tells me Lexus is going to offer it as a three row model with the third row being two "jump" type of seats. Research shows people want three rows with their CUVs, even if they never use the third row. Maybe they'll offer two and three row versions? No idea. I assume TTV6 will be base with optional plug-in, hybrid and an F V8 model. My assumption is $80-$120k. What's it going to be called? Not LQ, we know that much.
**There is a caveat here with LF-1. They could leave the RX as a two row, FWD "soccer mom" entry, make the LF-1 three rows only and try to move the price down closer to $70-75k. Since LS starts at $75k, this seems doable to me and it would create greater differentiation between RX and LF-1. I am truly unsure of how they will package and deliver the next gen RX and LF-1.**
New GX: 2022 as a 2023MY. TNGA-F BOF midsize, true to form. I don't think it's hard to imagine the formula here. Probably going to also have TTV6 as the base engine, maybe that's the only option? Styling will be very upright and masculine, probably like a mini-LX. I think 2 and 3 row seating options, especially if they move the LX up in price and status. Would be nice to see them offer a 4x2 model for price reasons and warm climate markets $57-75k.
New RX: 2021 as a 2022MY. TNGA-K, but I begin to get fuzzy thinking about how this will fit in with the LF-1. Shoot me for saying this, but I worry that the RX could very easily kill the LF-1 just like the ES cannibalized the GS. Unless the LF-1 is carrying significantly more power, more exclusive options and materials, and looks VERY different, two midsize 2/3 row Lexus crossovers are going to be too competitive under the same roof. I have heard that the RX L is a "one and done" generation, but I also don't know how the current generation is selling. They could keep the RX as a value leader since they're building out the top end of their SUV portfolio with new LX, new GX and LF-1. Where I become more confused is thinking about engine choices. I'm sure the new turbo 4cyl will be the base engine, but Lexus needs to begin offering an RX in the 350-400hp range... or do they decide that is LF-1 territory? I can see the RX being offered as only turbo 4 (base), hybrid 4 cylinder (premium model with more horsepower), and a plug-in. $46-68k.
New NX: Late 2020 as a 2021MY. TNGA-K also. I hear that the new IS is finally coming next year, but a new NX is probably going to be one of the most important Lexus model releases within the next 5 years and they need to get it right, and they need to deliver it soon. Lexus' model releases are getting crowded into 2022 and the NX is quickly falling behind in it's segment. They would be wise to fast track the 2NX and deliver it within 13 months, but I'm not sure if this is feasible. New DF 2.0T base engine with the optional 2.4/2.5L turbo, potentially as an F engine. 2.5L hybrid option like Rav4, 220hp. $37-60k (F).
UX: New, refresh in what, 2021?
With Toyota's SUV lineup growing so quickly, it would be wise for Lexus to invest in something like "F OFF ROAD" like TRD Pro (for GX and LX), and also to deliver a two row baby GX, even if it's unibody. There's a big hole in the market for such a vehicle, and Lexus would be a great brand to introduce such a product.
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The recent GXOR concept might be the direction the next GX is going. Lexus knows very well GX has a following in the offroad community, and they see how well the TRD Pros are doing. So I can imagine the 'OR' branding becoming something similar to F-Sport. It makes a lot of sense since it will create a lot of profit for not much investment. If they can push 4Runner prices into GX territory without any problem they could certainly sell GX for more as well. The business model of these 'special' sport and offroad trims is to convince buyers to spend more for things they don't need.
There is not enough time to make a GXOR for the current generation, but next gen is a possibility. They also have an opportunity to open the GX up to other offroad-heavy markets like Australia and China. The current-gen's problem is the lack of a diesel option for the former and a downsized gasoline option for the latter. So I think they could offer diesel and turbo-4 powertrain to expand the GX lineup for non-US markets (these will be developed for the Prado anyway). Offroad people don't really care about cylinder count and peak power that much, all we want is a bullet-proof engine with tons of low-end torque.
If Lexus wants to reach 300k sales in ChDM by 2025 they need every help possible, and a part of that could come from the GX. After all we buy 100k Land Cruisers of all flavors a year which is a huge number.
They could even make a LXOR as a direct competitor to the G-wagen while keeping the F exclusive to LF-1. If the LF-1 takes the sporty route they don't have to re-engineer the LX with IRS and keep its offroad capabilities.
The full-size luxury crossover market is much more robust than the full-size sedan market. So the kind of cannabalization is not that likely to happen if the LF-1 just by size alone. The biggest threat for the LF-1 is not the RX but a possible recession that pushes buying power down.
Again think about their 300k by 2025 plan in ChDM. Instead of a kids hauler the target demographic of the RX-L here is the business people with the 6-seater option. You might already be familiar with this strange phenomenon in ChDM that everything needs a 'L' to do well, even a Yaris. And for USDM they can't just force families to buy a 75k 3-row, that won't work guaranteed. The "one and done" comment could be referring to how the current RX-L is a poorly-engineered afterthought forced by revolting dealers. It could mean the next-gen RX will be designed with three rows in mind from the beginning. So I don't think the RX-L will go away.
Plug-in is the short-cut. That 2.5L turbo-4 plus a big battery could easily make 400hp. They have a plan to have a base 'economy' hybrid model plus a 'performance' hybrid model for most of the lineup. I expect something similar for the NX as well. In the future they will likely stop offering intermediate gasoline options since the volume is not justifiable and emissions and CAFE regulations world-wide will force hybridization anyway.
Yup they could equip their future BOF mobiles as offroad versions, however a quick sweep of the OR community kind of shows a bigger following in the 2nd hand community then first owners. Would it sell new, of course, some dealers already do this in some limited capacity (just saw a 2020 GX modified with a lift and tires for sale from a dealer). However would it sell in any number to the mall cruisers community, probably not.
The GXOR was a rollout plan for the very lightly refreshed MY20, as the product by itself doesnt standout much. Bringing it the US launch, and of course to the OR community event was a way of drumming up folks to talk about the MY20.
The GXOR was a rollout plan for the very lightly refreshed MY20, as the product by itself doesnt standout much. Bringing it the US launch, and of course to the OR community event was a way of drumming up folks to talk about the MY20.
flexus
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Dealers from greater Tokyo area says LC300 will go on sale August 2020 with 4L petrol option. Prado will go on sale August 2021 2.7L petrol and 2.8L diesel. Both models offer new TNGA platform and, 6AT and full time AWD. LC will have 8 seater and Prado 5 and 7 seater option.
New Harrier will go on sale next May as coupe style SUV. Powertrains are 2L petrol, 2L petrol turbo and 2.5L hybrid. Turbo is offered with 6AT and rest are CVT.
New Harrier will go on sale next May as coupe style SUV. Powertrains are 2L petrol, 2L petrol turbo and 2.5L hybrid. Turbo is offered with 6AT and rest are CVT.
Joaquin Ruhi
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Odd that they would stick with the 6-speed automatic when the other RWD Toyota and Lexus models have 8 and 10-speed automatics. If that prediction is correct, all I can think of is either the 6-speed is better at channeling low-end torque, or that less constant gear-changing is better for off-road situations.
I really doubt these legacy powertrains will be offered in JDM, USDM, ChDM or EU since they will wreck their fleet emissions and economy. The 1GD is still not rated for Euro 6.
Of course traditional LC markets like Africa and South America will keep the tried-and-true carry over powertrains.
For legacy engines the 6AT just makes sense since there's no need to recalibrate. The GDJ/VDJ's 6AT is still their toughest transmission with 900Nm maximum torque rating.
But don't expect say V35A to be paired to the older 6AT. Again the V35A/10AT combo has already been developed so no need to redevelop a combo with 6AT.
You are right 6 gears are all you need for offroading. The 8, 9, 10 speeds are mostly for highway towing.
Of course traditional LC markets like Africa and South America will keep the tried-and-true carry over powertrains.
For legacy engines the 6AT just makes sense since there's no need to recalibrate. The GDJ/VDJ's 6AT is still their toughest transmission with 900Nm maximum torque rating.
But don't expect say V35A to be paired to the older 6AT. Again the V35A/10AT combo has already been developed so no need to redevelop a combo with 6AT.
You are right 6 gears are all you need for offroading. The 8, 9, 10 speeds are mostly for highway towing.
maiaramdan
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So guys is the rumoured LQ or in other words the production version of the limitless will be the next LX ?
CRSKTN
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The "LQ" trademark turned out to be this:
There's been talk about the next LX being a departure, so it's not clear if that means the LF-1 will influence the LX, or if it is a separate product and LX will be different in other ways.
maiaramdan
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The 600 beside the LX sitting well in the 3.5TT hybrid, but in the same time that mill will be also used in a lot of BOF vehicles
Sorry to bump an old thread, I've been lurking around here for a while and finally registered.
First I want to say thank-you for all the information you put out on here (and all the other knowledgeable contributors on the forum as well), as a car enthusiast I enjoy the rumors and speculation about upcoming models and your posts are very insightful in that regard and feel like precious material that you don't really get much elsewhere.
That being said, do you have any specific details regarding the 2022 NX redesign? Will it be released early in 2021 as a 2022 MY? Any technical details that you feel comfortable sharing?
I feel like the current NX, while enjoyable and a nice place to sit in, falls short of what it could be especially on the ride comfort front. The current dash design also feels a bit convoluted.
James
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@Gecko i was reading through this thread again and I think you mentioned a new LX in 12 months back in April/May I haven’t seen any talk on the LX since like April. Did you have some info on the LX? Wouldn’t we know something if it was only 12 months out? Feel free to transfer this over to LX thread if need to but I know that has been kind of dead the last few months.
Joaquin Ruhi
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Let me chime in. There is indeed much lack of clarity as to what is happening with 4LX. Assuming it remains a twin to the "large" Land Cruiser (currently Land Cruiser 200), its Land Cruiser 300 successor could be unveiled as early as next month or (far more likely) Spring 2021 according to Japanese media reports and information posted earlier by @Carmaker1 . How close to that the next LX will debut is anybody's guess. And, FWIW, Toyota Land Cruiser 300 itself is unlikely to be sold in the U.S.
Gecko
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I was chatting with @Carmaker1 about this recently because it does seem like news and rumors about the LX have gone strangely silent. We know LX 600 was trademarked in 2019, but if rumors are true about power coming from the V35A-FTS, we should see an LX 500 trademark as well. Did that happen? I don't know and haven't looked.
I believe we are about to see a greater departure between the Land Cruiser and LX than ever before, and we know TNGA-F has been slightly delayed, so that might push the timeframe back for everything 12-18 months. I'm unsure if we will see the Land Cruiser or Tundra first, but we know Tundra comes late next year... Land Cruiser... nothing concrete yet. Land Cruiser is a much larger and more substantial project, so it's either extremely secretive, or I think it's been delayed to debut after the Tundra, sometime in 2022.
I started hearing very specific rumors about the 4LX way back in 2018 (two row executive seating, aimed more at ultra-lux SUVs, etc) so I think there have indeed been some pretty serious delays. Such is the life of a Lexus enthusiast, I suppose.
It's a bit of a shame that the LX hasn't come sooner, like this year or early next year. As Lexus loves to do, it's seeming like NX, RX, LX and GX will all be redesigned within 18-24 months of each other, including the introduction of the LF-1 if it makes production. I cannot figure out Lexus product planning for the life of me... more space between category vehicle redesigns would be really nice for dealers and showroom traffic. ES/LS followed closely, now it's looking like the SUVs will do the same.
Joaquin Ruhi
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I just looked. No LX 500 trademark. No IS 500, either, nor any other Lexus-centric trademarks lately beyond the quartet filed for 2NX.
James
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I do wonder if the all quiet front from Lexus is the COVID pandemic where people aren't out looking or if this new secret training facility has helped really keep everything super quiet (we know Lexus loves to be secret as well) but it just seems the longer they wait on all these products the more people are going elsewhere. Like dropping a few more hints on new products like a headlight or a wheel or something would at least peak interest right? We all sound like broken records no matter what thread we are on, but we are all looking for updates with Lexus and we just aren't getting them (yes we have a "new" IS).
Have other brands beside Lexus had products delayed as well? I don't follow the industry that closely besides Lexus and this site so just wondering if others are way behind as well?
@Gecko I think it would be great for the LX to go more away from the Land Cruiser. Both could have their own markets and not compete as well. Also, LX 600 what engine are we putting in...The V8 that is "reserved" for F products or something new...
Have other brands beside Lexus had products delayed as well? I don't follow the industry that closely besides Lexus and this site so just wondering if others are way behind as well?
@Gecko I think it would be great for the LX to go more away from the Land Cruiser. Both could have their own markets and not compete as well. Also, LX 600 what engine are we putting in...The V8 that is "reserved" for F products or something new...