Gecko

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šŸ˜¬ also remembered economics

Lets not forget there is always that fine toyota bottom line sensibility.

Not that i dont want them doing better

KDSS was and is standard on every GX 460, so having them remove it from everything but the Overtrail for the 3rd gen is a little jarring to people who are used to having the system.

Historically, driving a vehicle without KDSS (like a 4Runner), and then driving a KDSS-equipped vehicle like GX 460 makes the advantages of the system readily apparent, and it has a significant impact on driving dynamics. Maybe Toyota has engineered GA F or the suspension so that the differences are less noticeable?
 

guy80

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I also don't like the fact I'm being pushed into the Overtrail+ to get the main options I want (but not all options I want).
Is what it is - maybe the refresh with change it up and have options across the board versus locked into the models as presently is
 

guy80

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Thanks for the pic. Not sure if itā€™s the design or the 22ā€ size, but those wheels look out of place on a boxy design imo. Like wagon wheels.

A rendering but I like this wheel better - but not the 25" as shown, rather 20" which is the smallest they make:
1687209241496.png
 

ssun30

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GX Premium is a "poverty trim" which only serves to lower the advertised entry price and encourages upselling. Poverty trims are usually only produced in small numbers because they don't actually have reduced cost.

The majority of GX produced will be Premium+ so that's the real baseline for GX. As for Overtrail, it's well-known that people who buy specialty cars (like a high performance or off-road variant) are prime targets for upselling, usually willing to overpay by 30% over base MSRP. That's why most high performance cars you can actually buy are close to fully loaded. In most cases the base trim is actually the one that needs to be custom ordered.
 
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Dang that does look good in white, those 22" wheels and the running boards hidden looks really good. I was trying to avoid white since I am currently driving a white suv and this is making it difficult. thanks for posting.
 
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From that other Lexus forum, but here is some info on standard features.
  • Power tilt/telescope steering wheel requires Premium+ or Overtrail+ (this was standard in 2003 - why not now?)
  • Memory system for mirrors/driver's seat/steering wheel again requires Premium+ or Overtrail+ (this was standard in 2003 - why not now?)
  • Adaptive Variable Suspension only in Luxury+ or Overtrail.
  • LED fogs as mentioned are Premium+... Premium would have Halogen?
  • 4 way adjustable headrests are Luxury or Overtrail+
  • Wireless phone charger is Premium+ or Overtrail+
  • Intuitive Parking Assist in Premium+
  • E-KDSS is locked to Overtrail, proving that Lexus seems to have forgotten how their own systems even perform. KDSS makes the truck SO much better on and off road that it should be available across the line.
Could you expand on the point you made about how KDSS improves daily, on-road driving (and why the adaptive variable suspension alone is insufficient)?
 

qtb007

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KDSS allows a very stiff sway bar for on-road driving without compromising off-road articulation. It's essentially a fully automatic sway bar disconnect.
I had KDSS on my '16 4Runner Trail Edition and do not have it on my '23 4Runner TRD Pro. The KDSS did, indeed, improve on road handling. Much flatter cornering, so the '16 really did drive well on the back roads. The ride down cracked and potholed highways/interstates was considerably worse on the KDSS equipped model, though. If one side of the road was beat up, that impact transferred through the back of the vehicle a lot more than it does on my Pro. I realize part of this is due to solid rear axle, but the high dollar suspension on the Pro seems to do a much better job isolating those impacts. Anecdotally, a friend of mine that went from a '14 4Runner SR5 (no KDSS) to a '22 4Runner TRD Off Road (with KDSS) has complained that the ride feels a lot rougher in his TRD OR despite the shocks and springs supposedly being identical to his old SR5. For the average person on a road test, I think the Pro has a noticeably better ride even if it does lean over during hard corner.

I think high quality shock / spring combo with KDSS could be a really great suspension, but I also think that most people don't hustle a 4800lb SUV down WV backroads like I do. Maybe for the typical GX buyer, a high quality adaptive suspension is a better way to approach it. Leave the eKDSS to the trims that will appreciate it.
 
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I appreciate all this feedback. I have a GX just for purposes of getting through heavy snow on city streets, not for off-roading. Sounds like paying the extra bucks for a new Overtrail with KDSS wouldn't make sense for me. If my objective is maximizing ride comfort, would you go for the Luxury+ (which provides the factory adaptive suspension), or get a Premium and install a really good aftermarket suspension?