2021 Toyota Sienna

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eCVT actually feels much better than CVT because you don't feel rubberbanding. Mechanical CVTs are so bad because so much power is lost from slip. CVTs both metaphorically and physically suck the life out of the car. An ideal CVT would feel completely different: the car always have peak power whenever you want it, and eCVT is closer to that.
I have to agree, the transmissions in the hybrids, have gotten better over time. They work fine in my folks RX and ES hybrids. I hated the way my dad's 2007 Camry Hybrid felt, but that was over 14 years ago, so at that time, it was a rough. However, the last time I rented a Corolla (a 2019 sedan, but the old style), its CVT felt like a rubber band when trying to punch it.
 
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eCVT actually feels much better than CVT because you don't feel rubberbanding. Mechanical CVTs are so bad because so much power is lost from slip. CVTs both metaphorically and physically suck the life out of the car. An ideal CVT would feel completely different: the car always have peak power whenever you want it, and eCVT is closer to that.

Well here's my question. How much better is an eCVT compared to an actual torque converter or a dual-clutch transmission. For example the Porsche hybrids are either PDK or have the ZF8. Hyundai has a dual-clutch for the Ioniq as well. I always believed that an actual transmission with gear ratios have enhanced the positives of a hybrid more than a CVT with the exception of trying to save every last drop of fuel if you're hypermiling.
 

ssun30

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Well here's my question. How much better is an eCVT compared to an actual torque converter or a dual-clutch transmission. For example the Porsche hybrids are either PDK or have the ZF8. Hyundai has a dual-clutch for the Ioniq as well. I always believed that an actual transmission with gear ratios have enhanced the positives of a hybrid more than a CVT with the exception of trying to save every last drop of fuel if you're hypermiling.
DCT-based P2 Hybrid used to be popular because DCT has better efficiency than torque converter. Today not so much.

Neither are as responsive and efficient as eCVT. Having physical gear ratios is a liability for hybrids because the point is decoupling wheel power and speed from engine power and speed.

Ideal CVT is the holy grail of transmission technology since it allows the ICE to behave like an electric motor. That's why It's banned in any sort of high-end motorsport. And eCVT is the closest to an Ideal CVT we can get.

The main advantage of P2 is high power density in 300+ kW applications (note: the power density advantage is non-existent at lower power range). But that's not a concern for a minivan. I believe it's still more appropriate to use P2 for trucks and sports cars.
 
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LexsCTJill

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But you can't have a Toyota or Lexus Hybrid without the eCVT (which is not a real, belt-and-pulley CVT), regardless of the engine -- I4, V6 or V8.

Some of the higher end hybrids from Lexus have a two stage transmission? I have no issues with a CTV...my CT was great, why it lacked was power compared to the LSh which had so much.
 

Sulu

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Well here's my question. How much better is an eCVT compared to an actual torque converter or a dual-clutch transmission. For example the Porsche hybrids are either PDK or have the ZF8. Hyundai has a dual-clutch for the Ioniq as well. I always believed that an actual transmission with gear ratios have enhanced the positives of a hybrid more than a CVT with the exception of trying to save every last drop of fuel if you're hypermiling.
The hybrid systems that simply sandwich an electric motor-generator between the engine and traditional automatic transmission are what I call "either-or" hybrids: The electric motor can either drive the vehicle by drawing power from the battery OR it can be used as a generator to recharge the battery, but it cannot do both. Only when the motor is not drawing power from the battery (e.g. when the battery is discharged) can it be used as a generator. If the battery is discharged, the combustion engine is pulling around the dead weight of the battery.

The PSD/eCVT transmissions contain a second electric motor-generator. With a second motor-generator, the vehicle can operate in the very efficient series-hybrid mode: The electric motor MG2 drives the vehicle by drawing power from the battery AND, concurrently, the combustion engine is running at a constant, low speed (very fuel efficient), turning the electric generator MG1 to keep the battery topped up. This uncouples power spikes (caused by accelerations, which consume a lot of fuel in a combustion engine) from the combustion engine; the charged battery responds to spikes.
 

Sulu

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Some of the higher end hybrids from Lexus have a two stage transmission? I have no issues with a CTV...my CT was great, why it lacked was power compared to the LSh which had so much.
The GS 450h has a second planetary gearset coupled to the back end of the PSD/eCVT, allowing it to have a low gear and a high gear.
 
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DCT-based P2 Hybrid used to be popular because DCT has better efficiency than torque converter. Today not so much.

Neither are as responsive and efficient as eCVT. Having physical gear ratios is a liability for hybrids because the point is decoupling wheel power and speed from engine power and speed.

Ideal CVT is the holy grail of transmission technology since it allows the ICE to behave like an electric motor. That's why It's banned in any sort of high-end motorsport. And eCVT is the closest to an Ideal CVT we can get.

The main advantage of P2 is high power density in 300+ kW applications (note: the power density advantage is non-existent at lower power range). But that's not a concern for a minivan. I believe it's still more appropriate to use P2 for trucks and sports cars.
Ah, that makes a load of sense. I'm also aware that CVT's are banned in high-end motorsports. I remember Williams tried a CVT back in the mid 90's but it was banned by F1.
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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Good call. Maybe it is the Venza. (Wild card: Toyota Tacoma hybrid)
I think there's a 0.00001% chance we'd see a Toyota Tacoma hybrid anytime soon. The current Tacoma just got a mild facelift/refresh for 2020 and it just doesn't make sense to go to all the trouble to hybridize such an aging design that has max 3 or 4 years before a new generation debuts.

Had you said Tundra, then maybe that would qualify as a wild card. A new generation should be unveiled roughly a year from now, and that is widely rumored to offer a hybrid variant.
 

LexsCTJill

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I think there's a 0.00001% chance we'd see a Toyota Tacoma hybrid anytime soon. The current Tacoma just got a mild facelift/refresh for 2020 and it just doesn't make sense to go to all the trouble to hybridize such an aging design that has max 3 or 4 years before a new generation debuts.

Had you said Tundra, then maybe that would qualify as a wild card. A new generation should be unveiled roughly a year from now, and that is widely rumored to offer a hybrid variant.

Someone has to go wildcard longshot. We love horse racing, if we had a horse we’d name it Tacoma Hybrid right now lol
 

maiaramdan

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1 hour to go and we don't even know what is the second car!!!
 
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ssun30

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Buick executives in China must be sweating heavily right now. GL8 is their bread and butter. Sienna is the products they fear the most for years and it's finally coming.