2017 Lexus LS Prototype Spotted in Japan

[asoksevil]

Thanks krew, but I must honestly say, maybe the title should say "test mule" instead of "prototype". Nothing wrong with calling it prototype, as there are various stages of prototyping and this stage is very much one of them. It's just much easier if people can distinguish a "test mule"---that utilizes the incumbent generation's body shell---against a running test vehicle of the production design and packaged components in the form of a "prototype".

I can see some people casually expressing premature disappointment/puzzlement, even after all your efforts to clarify in the body of text below, that this is just a mule using the current LS body. This site is very good and highly accurate, so one is rarely confused when reading anything here. Actual 5LS prototypes have been running since last year, but not yet outside of high-security Lexus test facilities in Japan surely. I think this might be testing an alternative powertrain that may launch in 2017, some months after the petrol variants.

The final exterior design had to have been reached by late 2013, if not fully finalised then. 36 months from then to production is usually the time frame on such a large product and pretty much a typical pattern for the LS.

Akio Toyoda, as per the words of a well-regarded Lexus salesman and enthusiast, is "personally invested in this project" more than anything. It will be world-class apparently, but one hopes it holds true. This is the car that he is constantly chaffeured in (current LS600hL), so I am sure like Dr. Dieter Zetsche of Daimler AG did with the W222 S-Class, he wants something to his taste that he can enjoy day-in, day-out.

The LX being introduced in Japan this year, might also have to do with his own interests to a degree and wanting more than a Land Cruiser as an alternative. Mary Barra of GM is chauffeured in an Escalade daily, so it is not too shocking how that happened.

In my own work at my job, I have stressed this philosophy to any complacent superiors, on why our best offering must receive the highest possible level of investment, while not being a loss maker. Image building, conquest customers, absolute quality, and innovation.

The LX going to Japan? Where did you read that? That wouldn´t make too much sense...

 

[CIF]

The LX going to Japan? Where did you read that? That wouldn´t make too much sense...

I have heard such a rumor, not sure if that's 100%. The rumor is that it would be a symbolic halo model of sorts. Of course it wouldn't be a big seller, but might be offered purely for image and halo reasons.

 

[phuson0912]

The design makes me disappointed. It reminds me of the previous generation ES. But it seems to be promising. The current gen was the most advanced car on road in 2007,2008. Lexus need to focus on new technologies. I hope there will be a 10-speed transmission, the return of automatic parking system, night vision, and the autonomous driving system(like the system on the CT6). Also, a new powertrain and a system like the Magic Body Control. Last week my uncle took me a ride in his 2015 S550 and it was just amazing! Hope Lexus can build a better car than the S-class. The S class's reliability is horrible! The 2016 BMW 7er is ugly and unimpressive, the CT6 is just bland and look so cheap, the XJ is super unreliable, the A8 sucks, so it is such a great opportunity for Lexus to gain customers from the Germans! But lexus really need to improve the design.

The ES? So the current LS looks like an ES and not the other way around? The next LS "is" already testing, but not outside of heavily guarded company test facilities. Unlike their European counterparts, Toyota does not tease development of their vehicles prematurely. Whatever it looks like design-wise, it was signed off a long time ago and this exact mule is testing a powertrain not due until mid-2017. The regular 2017 LS may surface in spy shots as an LHD prototype in the next few months.

I agree with much what you said though, the current generation was on top of the world during 2006-2008. I greatly disagree in your assertion of our XJ, as I do try to take an unbiased stance to things. Our X351 is not super unreliable, that is just an off-handed assumption. Being familiar with the incumbent model, very familiar with its replacement and new suppliers for that programme, one cannot just take isolated cases as a measure of quality issues across the board.

Jaguars have frequently been unreliable. They are fast, classy, and luxurious, but just after 20000 miles, you will have to cope with a lot of problems. Their quality has improved in recent years, but they can't match the Lexus's quality. We have been waiting so long for a next generation LS, and i hope it will lead the car industry like it did in 1989! And i'm just a 15 years old boy, i've never owned any cars in my life! I even don't know how to drive. In my country, cars are too expensive, so owning a Camry means you are rich and successful! There are only dozens of Jaguars in where I lived, most people have never seen or heard of the Jaguar cars.

 

[Carmaker1]

The LX going to Japan? Where did you read that? That wouldn´t make too much sense...

My point has been proven already, judging by the subsequently shown near-accurate renders of the 2016 LX570 in RHD for JDM. I learned this well over a year ago.

Jaguars have frequently been unreliable. They are fast, classy, and luxurious, but just after 20000 miles, you will have to cope with a lot of problems. Their quality has improved in recent years, but they can't match the Lexus's quality. We have been waiting so long for a next generation LS, and i hope it will lead the car industry like it did in 1989! And i'm just a 15 years old boy, i've never owned any cars in my life! I even don't know how to drive. In my country, cars are too expensive, so owning a Camry means you are rich and successful! There are only dozens of Jaguars in where I lived, most people have never seen or heard of the Jaguar cars.

I am VERY acquainted with Jaguars, especially the incumbent XJ and succeeding generation. You are very much parroting rather past stigmas against much older XJs and lesser Jaguars, not even citing proper sources for your accusations. Not only do I work with the XJ in my day-to-day work, my father owns 3 of them and while anecdotal, I can attest to their flawlessness. The LS only competes with the XJ-Series, NOT simply "Jaguars". An unreliable XF or S-Type has no relation to an LS.

I will respectfully not bother with further dignifying all of that with a thoroughly direct and exhaustive response, as I really do not consider your statements to be particularly objective for that matter, as they do not come from a place of concrete validity. It is better we focus our positive energy and interest on the next LS generation and the wonderful things it will do for the Lexus brand, rather than attacking other respective brands for the sake of it.

 

[True Lexus Fan]

Perfect timing for an all new LS. I am sure Lexus won't disappoint in the luxury department. But the competition is fierce out there. One look at the new S-class interior makes the rest of the brand (German/Japan) Flagship sedan looks so outdated. That's why I am fully expecting Lexus to come up on top in vase improvement in all area. Both Tech and interior material wise. Engine department is definitely much needed juvenation of power/torque ratio (Perhaps not just focusing on power but lightweight chassis parts ie. Carbon fibre) to lower the weight of the LS line up? Better driving dynamics? Heck...... with BMW 7 series coming out with key guided car out of the garage by it's own power. Lexus should not be left behind in latest and greatest of the segment in premium flagship Sedan. Can't wait.

 

[Carmaker1]

After seeing the new LX update, one can expect the LS to actually top that and more. This may be my first flagship purchase, if appealing to my taste (will have new XJ in family already). Will Lexus abandon Remote Touch or implement a dual solution like BMW (RT +touchscreen)?

5LS development has to be very advanced by now, that accommodating some of the functions on the new 7-Series may prove challenging and may not meet deadlines for the 2017 model year. It is likely they will do what Mercedes-Benz did with MY2015 S-Class over the initial MY2014 (from June 2013) by adding the COMAND with Touchpad.

Not that many people liked it (or pretended not to), but what about the APGS/IPA that Lexus debuted in 2006 on the LS? It was years before BMW 7er LCi (in 2012), the W222 S-Class (July 2013), and D4 A8 facelift (late 2013) got that. Everyone nowadays touts that as a fun feature (yes, I know it's a gimmick), but it was removed in 2012 from the LS and never spread to other Lexus models. Will that also return?

 

[CIF]

I am very impressed with the new, refreshed LX interior. I too fully believe the next LS will, at minimum, match this LX interior and very likely exceed it.

 

[Carmaker1]

I am very impressed with the new, refreshed LX interior. I too fully believe the next LS will, at minimum, match this LX interior and very likely exceed it.

Yes, it absolutely will. One hopes that actual prototypes start getting caught next month or by September.

 

[mikeavelli]

Through Vossen I get to drive the D-class flagships quite a bit and none of them can touch the tech and opulence of the S-Class. I tell people all the time the S-class interior is bordering on Bentley/RR levels. There is no question its one of the finest interiors in the world. I find the others to be amazingly good in each of their own ways (LS, 7, A8 and don't sleep on the XJ!) but the S-class is on another level. If Lexus is really aiming to meet/beat the S-class it will be something truly special. Looking at the new 7 series, it has some cool tech but I don't think that interior in pics beats the S-class and the 750 is now priced the same as the S550.

Pricing will be something as well.....I assume we will see quite a few LS's now priced over 100k fully loaded whereas today its usually special order (or the LS 600h L). I don't think Lexus will ever get to crazy LS numbers again in regards to sales but if they can crack 1500 a month or so they will be a nice chunk.

 

[CIF]

I think that if the LS is really going to be as special as I think it is, it should be able to manage 1500 per month US sales no problem, and likely achieve the 2000+ US monthly sales mark that previous generations of the LS managed.

More importantly, I think the LS will also continue to increase in popularity worldwide. Ever since the LS debuted, I think it has always, or almost always been #2 in sales for the class worldwide behind the S Class. Maybe a few years it might have been beat by the 7, but generally speaking the LS has traditionally been the #2 seller in the class IIRC.

 

[Carmaker1]

I think that if the LS is really going to be as special as I think it is, it should be able to manage 1500 per month US sales no problem, and likely achieve the 2000+ US monthly sales mark that previous generations of the LS managed.

More importantly, I think the LS will also continue to increase in popularity worldwide. Ever since the LS debuted, I think it has always, or almost always been #2 in sales for the class worldwide behind the S Class. Maybe a few years it might have been beat by the 7, but generally speaking the LS has traditionally been the #2 seller in the class IIRC.

It has? Not in Europe, Asia, nor Africa (not officially sold outside of South Africa) and other territories. That really goes to the BMW 7-Series, as I don't believe the LS has managed that, except in North America.

 

[CIF]

It has? Not in Europe, Asia, nor Africa (not officially sold outside of South Africa) and other territories. That really goes to the BMW 7-Series, as I don't believe the LS has managed that, except in North America.

Not sure if I can find the figures online again, but years ago I saw sales data indicating that over the last 10 years, at least for a few years, the LS ended 2nd in segment in worldwide sales to the S Class.

 

[Carmaker1]

Not sure if I can find the figures online again, but years ago I saw sales data indicating that over the last 10 years, at least for a few years, the LS ended 2nd in segment in worldwide sales to the S Class.

Really? That is interesting, as maybe that includes past Celsior or early 4LS sales. The 2007 LS was a serious hot seller between 2006 and 2007, despite being much more expensive than its predecessor. That was the year it was second to the also new, W221 S-Class. The 2008 model year was an understandable reduction, but eventually the latter half of it and the 2009 model year suffered a slump for every obvious reasons. The late 2009 refresh proved to be so lacklustre, that it didn't do well enough post economic collapse.

I call 2009-2012, "wasted years" for the LS. It would've been better for the LS to have skipped for major changes for MY2010, but instead got a facelift in late 2010 for MY2011, that fell somewhere between the level of changes for the first refresh (MY2010) and that of the MY2013 Spindle Grille version.

A late 2014/early 2015 evolutionary redesign would've sufficed after a MY2011 facelift or mini-refresh in late 2013 ahead of a late 2015 redesign (basically 2006-2010 original, facelift 2010-13, facelift 1.5 2013-15). The 2015 LS is the "mini-refresh" that neatly falls between the MY2013 facelift and the MY2017 LS redesign.

Since Toyota did not manage this, they have no choice but to go all out on a revolutionary offering, after a drawn out 10 year lifecycle.

 

[CIF]

Really? That is interesting, as maybe that includes past Celsior or early 4LS sales. The 2007 LS was a serious hot seller between 2006 and 2007, despite being much more expensive than its predecessor. That was the year it was second to the also new, W221 S-Class. The 2008 model year was an understandable reduction, but eventually the latter half of it and the 2009 model year suffered a slump for every obvious reasons. The late 2009 refresh proved to be so lacklustre, that it didn't do well enough post economic collapse.

I call 2009-2012, "wasted years" for the LS. It would've been better for the LS to have skipped for major changes for MY2010, but instead got a facelift in late 2010 for MY2011, that fell somewhere between the level of changes for the first refresh (MY2010) and that of the MY2013 Spindle Grille version.

A late 2014/early 2015 evolutionary redesign would've sufficed after a MY2011 facelift or mini-refresh in late 2013 ahead of a late 2015 redesign (basically 2006-2010 original, facelift 2010-13, facelift 1.5 2013-15). The 2015 LS is the "mini-refresh" that neatly falls between the MY2013 facelift and the MY2017 LS redesign.

Since Toyota did not manage this, they have no choice but to go all out on a revolutionary offering, after a drawn out 10 year lifecycle.

Yeah I'll have to see if I can dig up the figures, but I believe they were either at the tail end of 3LS sales, or the start of 4LS sales. Can't remember what time frame the figures spanned in total.

 

[Carmaker1]

I have a premonition, that the 5LS might be over-engineered. The only flagship in recent history to last more than 11 years, was the W126 S-Class from December 1979 to 1991 (Guard variants through April 1992). It's successor, the W140, began development in 1981 for a 1989 launch, only to be delayed 18 months near design freeze in 1987.
1979-1985

1985-1991

1991-94(1998)

The current LS was leaked 10 years ago, launched 12 months later in September 2006 and will remain in production through 2017. This is the longest running Lexus model generation ever (for now). One can only imagine what to expect in this regard from it. For 5-year cycle, a facelift should've seen some visible improvements to tide the model over into 2017, since the next one isn't due until then.

Yeah I'll have to see if I can dig up the figures, but I believe they were either at the tail end of 3LS sales, or the start of 4LS sales. Can't remember what time frame the figures spanned in total.

It's definitely the 2007 sales, as they remain the highest since the early 90s, if not in Lexus history.

 

[CIF]

I'm almost positive the 5LS will be over-engineered. I have been convinced of this for the last couple of years. Not to repeat the points you made Carmaker1, but I fully agree with your points. The 4LS life cycle has indeed been unprecedented for Lexus. Also if the 2017 release turns out as fact, then by 2017, the 5LS will have been in development for close to, or around 10 years.

Historically, there have only been two other Lexus projects with such unprecedented development. The original 1LS development cycle had no specific budget or time constraints. The LFA project also had no specific time or budget constraints. Personally, I think it is quite likely that 5LS development has no specific time or budget constraints either. That would explain the incredible time length of 5LS development so far. Now it's very well known that both the 1LS and LFA were over-engineered, and I fully expect the same for the 5LS. It would be a disappointment if the 5LS wasn't.