12th Generation E120 Toyota Corolla Thread (Hatch, Sedan, Cross)

ssun30

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Huh, what does the M20A have to do with the 3ZR, aside from bore and stroke? The M20A, like the other TNGA engines, is a clean sheet design. It's not "derived from" the 3ZR. The M20A is physically smaller and lighter than the 2ZR, not even talking about the 3ZR. There are fundamental differences between the M20A and 3ZR, like dramatically different compression ratios, thermal efficiency, different valve angles, among many other things.
Nowhere did I say the M20A uses a carried over block from 3ZR. The only thing I said is that they are the same 'engine class' per Toyota's definition.

And indeed the 3ZR was one of the precursors to the M20A as it tested the optimal stroke/bore ratio (1.21:1) for the Dynamic Force family, which is a key parameter to Dynamic Force's exceptional thermal efficiency. The 3ZR-FAE had similar efficiency as the 6AR-FSE despite missing direct injection and Miller cycle operation. But just because I mentioned this particular fact does not I mean I'm downplaying the many other specific details.

And yes I've read all the published information on Dynamic Force, and non-public domain info as well. I'm not the kind of person who makes assumptions without educating myself first. I don't understand how you got frustrated by that comment.
 
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https://www.motor1.com/news/237026/2019-toyota-corolla-hatchback-revealed/
2019 Toyota Corolla Hatchback Gets Sharper Looks, New Platform

Bigger than its predecessor, the U.S. counterpart of the new Auris will premiere next week at the New York Auto Show.

Originally offered in the United States as the Scion iM before being rebranded as the Toyota Corolla iM, the compact five-door model is getting a new name for its next generation. Prepare to meet the 2019 Corolla Hatchback, essentially a North American version of the Euro-spec Auris we saw earlier this month at the Geneva Motor Show. Compared to the model it replaces, it has been elongated by 1.5 inches (at 172 inches) and all of that stretch has gone into the wheelbase, now measuring 103.9 inches. It’s also 1.2 inches wider (at 70.5 inches) and has been lowered by an inch (56.6 inches).

Like the Auris, the new Corolla Hatchback is switching to the Toyota New Global Architecture (TNGA) platform and that comes along with a quieter cabin thanks to additional seals in the body panel gaps as well as more sound-deadening material. While its European cousin was a bit shy and refused to show its cabin during Geneva (the windows were all blacked out), we finally get to see the revamped cabin in the U.S.-spec model.












 

CIF

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Nowhere did I say the M20A uses a carried over block from 3ZR. The only thing I said is that they are the same 'engine class' per Toyota's definition.

And indeed the 3ZR was one of the precursors to the M20A as it tested the optimal stroke/bore ratio (1.21:1) for the Dynamic Force family, which is a key parameter to Dynamic Force's exceptional thermal efficiency. The 3ZR-FAE had similar efficiency as the 6AR-FSE despite missing direct injection and Miller cycle operation. But just because I mentioned this particular fact does not I mean I'm downplaying the many other specific details.

And yes I've read all the published information on Dynamic Force, and non-public domain info as well. I'm not the kind of person who makes assumptions without educating myself first. I don't understand how you got frustrated by that comment.
You heavily implied the M20A was derived from the 3ZR, similar to how you mentioned the A25A was derived from the AR series (also incorrect). The idea of a carryover block has nothing to do with this discussion, not sure where you got that from.

Yes the 3ZR was precursor in the sense that it simply was a predecessor engine. That though is not saying much. Stroke/bore ratios are fundamental aspects of engine design that are not exclusive to Toyota or Dynamic Force engines. Toyota's old 1ZZ-FE engine was a long stroke design with a stroke/bore ratio of about 1.16. If I were to use your logic, then the 1ZZ must have been an M20A precursor as well yes? Despite the identical stroke/bore ratios of the 3ZR and M20A, almost everything else is different between the two engines. Dynamic Force engines use a whole new combustion process philosophy. To repeat myself again, the M20A compared to the 3ZR has different valve angles, a much different compression ratio, different intake port design, a variable cooling system, different injectors, different ignition coils, and more. It is of little significance that they share the same stroke/bore ratio.
 
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ssun30

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You heavily implied the M20A was derived from the 3ZR, similar to how you mentioned the A25A was derived from the AR series (also incorrect). The idea of a carryover block has nothing to do with this discussion, not sure where you got that from.
Fine. End of discussion. That's enough digression for now.
 

mmcartalk

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I might just be stating the obvious, but it looks like the former Scion iM hatchback (or a redesigned version of it) resurrected under the Toyota name.
 

spwolf

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Hatchback vs Wagon? Here is current/old Corolla iM Hatch vs Wagon. Only Hatch is sold in the USA.

Just FYI, there is huge difference between the two. Wagon has a huge trunk extension




And here are the trunks:



 

ssun30

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If I'm not mistaken, the Auris Wagon is there to replace the mid-size Avensis? I guess that's why they put such a powerful engine (for a compact) on the next gen Auris.
 

spwolf

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If I'm not mistaken, the Auris Wagon is there to replace the mid-size Avensis? I guess that's why they put such a powerful engine (for a compact) on the next gen Auris.
There is no official word. There are rumors about Camry replacing it, as well as Corolla and Auris Wagon moving upward to more premium status to replace the Avensis as well. New Auris and Corolla will seemingly have a lot of premium equipment previously not available, for instance Auris commercial on Toyota official channel had AVS suspension with sport+ settings.

Nevertheless, i dont think having Corolla/Auris with more equipment can alone replace Avensis. It was completely different category from Corolla, with more premium interior than Camry. So I do hope they also introduce European Camry as well.

Then there is also a question of Corolla Verso and Prius v and what will become of them in the future... replaced by Prius SUV?
 

Joaquin Ruhi

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There is no official word. There are rumors about Camry replacing it, as well as Corolla and Auris Wagon moving upward to more premium status to replace the Avensis as well. New Auris and Corolla will seemingly have a lot of premium equipment previously not available, for instance Auris commercial on Toyota official channel had AVS suspension with sport+ settings.

Nevertheless, i dont think having Corolla/Auris with more equipment can alone replace Avensis. It was completely different category from Corolla, with more premium interior than Camry. So I do hope they also introduce European Camry as well.

Then there is also a question of Corolla Verso and Prius v and what will become of them in the future... replaced by Prius SUV?
Another thing to watch out for is how much of a growth spurt the next-gen Auris Wagon and Corolla see versus their predecessors. Nominally, Auris is C-segment and Avensis is D-segment, but the next Auris wagon and Corolla might grow enough to become de facto Avensis replacements. This, coupled with (per spwolf) a rumored return of Camry to western Europe could certainly cover the departure of Avensis.
 

spwolf

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Another thing to watch out for is how much of a growth spurt the next-gen Auris Wagon and Corolla see versus their predecessors. Nominally, Auris is C-segment and Avensis is D-segment, but the next Auris wagon and Corolla might grow enough to become de facto Avensis replacements. This, coupled with (per spwolf) a rumored return of Camry to western Europe could certainly cover the departure of Avensis.
Corolla (Sedan) was not previously available in every country, while Avensis was... so there is certainly some possibility there to replace sales on lower end of the spectrum while Camry will cover higher end.

But again, problem is not the size alone (and we already know wheelbase of Auris, it has been increased but not so much), but premium interior and quality overall... And if you move Auris up a lot, then you lose sales on lower end of Auris sales.

I assume that they will do this:
- Offer European Camry Hybrid and 2.0l petrol at mid to high end of Avensis prices
- Offer Corolla Hybrid at low end of Avensis prices
- Expand Auris and Auris Wagon options to have top end options with prices into lower end Avensis territory.

This could bring them some 30k-50k extra sales per year compared to previous gen models, enough to replace Avensis.
 

spwolf

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It is another Toyota I am hearing good things about from people that usually hate Toyota's. I really want to check this out.
Official test drive embargo ends 30th of April, so we will get opinions then... one of the Aussie mags posted video about the car on their facebook page, as it is the best selling car in Australia, and they say it looks great inside out, quality interior and that Toyota presentations had it outhandle VW Golf. So fun.
 
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