2021 G80/2 BMW M3 & M4

[CRSKTN]

Weird it's almost like it was actually euro-centric xenophobia driving anti Japanese car rhetoric, and not the supposed superiority of German engineering.

Ignorant, euro supremacist behaviour is nothing new.

 

[Levi]

Weird it's almost like it was actually euro-centric xenophobia driving anti Japanese car rhetoric, and not the supposed superiority of German engineering.

Ignorant, euro supremacist behaviour is nothing new.

not euro, german, or Alfa, Lancia and Maserati would not be where they are now (non-existent).

 

[CRSKTN]

not euro, german, or Alfa, Lancia and Maserati would not be where they are now (non-existent).

Those companies wouldn't be where they are now without it. They are barely existent despite their terrible products, because of their brand cachet.

 

[mikeavelli]

Styling still hasn’t grown on me. Just seems so big and bloated. But I do see them around town.

 

[Smychavo]

I didn't particularly mind the grille. I saw an M4 in Sao Paulo Yellow, it's pretty neat, kinda gives me muscle car vibes, which is neat in my book. Seems like people that've driven this around are very satisfied with its dynamics, managing the 'dual personality' thing incredibly well, and I don't doubt that at all. Engine is also really impressive. I'll say, I'm about as excited for the future of BMW as I am with Lexus (honestly I really like em' both), looks notwithstanding, but with how nice their interiors are, I can see myself in a M4, or iX for that matter.

 

[ssun30]

The new BMW grille is okay once you get used to it, but then you see those renderings of how good it looks without the gigantic grille.

 

[MichaelL]

The new BMW grille is okay once you get used to it, but then you see those renderings of how good it looks without the gigantic grille.

Looks much better without the oversized nostrils, no question. Don’t feel like it was wise for BMW to take the risk they did, we will see in a couple of years what the sales numbers are….

 

[Smychavo]

Looks much better without the oversized nostrils, no question. Don’t feel like it was wise for BMW to take the risk they did, we will see in a couple of years what the sales numbers are….

I quite admire the fact they're embracing this off the deep-end approach with everything nowadays. Is it really frickin' weird? Yeah. But being nonsensical is much more entertaining to me all around, so I don't mind it at all. And if they continue to deliver on the great driving/powertrain dynamics, and incredibly refined tech like they have been with their most recent M cars, then I see no reason to worry about them sales-wise.

 

[ssun30]

^^ Their ICEs are still so good. Hybrids not so much. Problem is their full electric strategy: 2 years late to the 'try to beat Tesla' game when others are refocusing on affordability and producibility. CLAR-based BEVs are still ICE-conversion and Neue Klasse is 3 years away. By then PPE/eTNGA/MEA would be years ahead.

 

[Tragic Bronson]

 

[Gor134]

I wish this was sold here so badly. BMW made a huge mistake not certifying the wagon for the US.

 

[LateToLexus]

I wish this was sold here so badly. BMW made a huge mistake not certifying the wagon for the US.

Did they? Other than Subarus, I haven't seen a wagon on the road in like 5 years. Though I did see a covered wagon this fall on a road trip through rural Iowa.

 

[Sulu]

I wish this was sold here so badly. BMW made a huge mistake not certifying the wagon for the US.

Did they? Other than Subarus, I haven't seen a wagon on the road in like 5 years. Though I did see a covered wagon this fall on a road trip through rural Iowa.

Americans don't buy mid-sized sedans and they buy even fewer station wagons.

Correction: Americans do buy station wagons, but only if they ride on large wheels and tires and raised suspensions, have black lower-body and wheelwell cladding, and are labelled as "crossovers" or "SUVs" (and not called station wagons).

 

[bogglo]

Americans don't buy mid-sized sedans and they buy even fewer station wagons.

Correction: Americans do buy station wagons, but only if they ride on large wheels and tires and raised suspensions, have black lower-body and wheelwell cladding, and are labelled as "crossovers" or "SUVs" (and not called station wagons).

You can't buy what's not offered

 

[Gor134]

Did they? Other than Subarus, I haven't seen a wagon on the road in like 5 years. Though I did see a covered wagon this fall on a road trip through rural Iowa.

Performance wagons are selling great in the US. The RS 6 Avant is a success for Audi, and my dealership has a 2 year + waitlist for it.

Successful enough that Audi is bringing the next gen A/S/RS4 entire Avant to the US with the next-gen B10 models. That said.. I don't think the regular A4 Avant will sell that well but still.

Also BMW is bringing the next-gen M5 Touring to the states as well. Unfortunately not the M3.

 

[Levi]

Correction: Americans do buy station wagons, but only if they ride on large wheels and tires and 20 mm raised suspensions, have black lower-body and wheelwell cladding, and are labelled as "crossovers" or "SUVs" (and not called station wagons).

Corrected.

And then the customer gets a 30 mm drop, especially if it is a German "performance CUV/SUV".

 

[ssun30]

I hate to say this but I now have a new favorite of this class, the Cadillac CT4-V with manual transmission. The magnetic suspension is just magic and way better ride quality than M3 and feels tight and responsive. The engine is overpowered for RWD just like the 2UR or S58. A lot of things just feel right about it. And it doesn't look hideous.

But Cadillac is one of the least reliable brands and I immediately realized how problematic its overfilled engine bay could be. I just feel very uncomfortable thinking about the idea of owning one, so in the end I may still just get an IS500 or GS F. But that manual is so tempting. I don't understand why Lexus refuses to put manual in their F cars while the automatic is so bad, and now they suddenly got the genius idea of putting a fake manual in BEVs?

 

[mikeavelli]

Cadillac makes some great performing and driving cars. Styling is meh, interiors are okay, changing names every year is terrible and people can’t get past the name Cadillac.

Another case of us not deserving these cars. I hope Cadillac sticks it out. The CT4 and CT5 Blackwings are superb

 

[Sulu]

You can't buy what's not offered

Agreed. But the reason they are not offered is because there are not enough potential drivers willing to buy them, making it not worth the expense to build and import North American versions for sale here.

 

[ssun30]

I almost impulse purchased an E46 M3 Convertible 6MT in "decent condition" to replace my 440. Those German cars certainly aren't the best made. One of the kidney grilles fell out and the interior was creaking constantly. But it was the best driving car I've ever driven period. Those old school mechanical feels are something you can't get on a modern car. It's pretty slow by modern standards (way slower than my 440 and only comparable to an IS350 at most) but the fun cannot be compared. It's sad how the M3 became a hideous spec sheet maximizer with zero relatable experience to the old spirit M3.

So far I have sampled a few performance sedans from all brands and the GS-F is by far the best modern option. None of them are close to the E46 in terms of feel. The Lexus V8 does have better sound and way more power. It just lacks a manual transmission.

My ranking so far is E46 M3>GS-F>CT4-V Blackwing>F80 M3>G20 M340>IS500>S5>RS3>Stinger GT>C43>F90 M5. I will be trying the E92 M3 later and hopefully an IS-F could appear in my area.