New Lexus GX

Carmaker1

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According to a member by the name of Pat on another Lexus forum, when inquiring about buying a new Lexus SUV, he was told by his salesman to wait a little longer because their GM was shown for once a new GX SUV, which ups interior quality to LX levels and was alluded to being a mini LX in execution.

At first he mentioned it was due this summer, but corrected himself instead and said it is actually summer 2019, so he lost interest. The problem I have with that date is TNGA-F is somehow supposed to accommodate such a redesign so soon? Of a sub-flagship model?

What if this is more over that Toyota is belatedly updating the GX a la 2016 LX, to hold it over until 2022-23. Back in early 2015, there were no plans to redesign the 4Runner and GX. Results of the 2014 and 2015 model years likely forced them to change their mind but turnaround time means things won't surface quickly.
 

Carmaker1

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I kind of wonder if he was talking about LF-1? There was nothing on the GX at last year's dealer meeting...

I heard that too regarding last year. Didn't want to repost it, but this is what was mentioned:

I called my dealer today since I am looking to get into a new SUV and was told that I should wait for the ‘19 redesign of the GX later this year. The general sales manager said he has seen the new ‘19 and it is more like a mini LX and way better than the current GX so I will be waiting patiently now.

In response to a question:

Nevermind, I just talked to him and it is going to be available next summer, not this summer but said it was really nice and the interior was similar to the LX as is the exterior. I don’t think I can wait that long so I’m still looking elsewhere.

Possibly it wasn't ready for display, as the redesigned 2010 GX was barely revealed in August/Sept 2008 at the national meeting in NYC, just over 1 year (15 months) before actual public reveal in November 2009. It was where they also unveiled the final LFA via video presentation, 30 months ahead of launch in 2011.

August 2019 is practically 2 years after that particular meeting and if I recall, Lexus USA is selective with showing products 24 or more months out. The UK bunch in October 2014, got very lucky seeing the 2018 LS so early, as did those 2008 attendees with the MY2012 LFA
 
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How about this? What if Lexus is actually trying to reinvigorate the brand, and actually build cars to meet demand, to stay updated and to not rest on their laurels?
 

Gecko

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Another refresh would be fine, IMO. GX has no real competition at this point, so a little nip/tuck would be great for the next ~2 years.
 

spwolf

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amount of work they do on facelift also tells us how long it will take until full redesign.
 

zeusus

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Last GX refresh did wonders but I can't help but the sales person mixing it up potentially with the limitless?
 

GoHuskers

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I am one of the participant in that thread. I think it should be fine for another refresh (LX570 refreshed on '13 and '16, Tundra refreshed on '14 and '18) but it needs to get the latest safety features like LSS+, updated interior with 12.3" screen perhaps, newly tuned engine and tranny - far fetch.
 

krew

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If they brought the interior up to Lexus spec they'd sell a ton more. For me that's the one thing blatantly wrong with the current GX.

GX has a cartoonish interior, everything is unnecessarily large. Exterior still looks fine to me, but would like to see it with the shield front end of the LX.

Last GX refresh did wonders but I can't help but the sales person mixing it up potentially with the limitless?

The GX stands alone nearly across the luxury market as a reasonably priced body-on-frame SUV -- the LF-1 will be expensive and have little in the way of off-road capability. Don't see the two cross-selling much.

I am one of the participant in that thread. I think it should be fine for another refresh (LX570 refreshed on '13 and '16, Tundra refreshed on '14 and '18) but it needs to get the latest safety features like LSS+, updated interior with 12.3" screen perhaps, newly tuned engine and tranny - far fetch.

I believe that if Lexus could, they would upgrade the GX to LSS+ in a second -- likely, the vehicle design doesn't allow for the tech.
 

Gecko

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The reason that the GX cannot accommodate LSS+ is that it still has a hydraulic power steering system (same with 4Runner). Both TSS and LSS+ require electronic power steering for some of the features, such as lane correction and active steering for collision avoidance.

Redesigning the entire power steering system probably isn't worth it for a refresh, so if the GX is going to be refreshed again, I'd be surprised if it got LSS+.
 

Carmaker1

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How about this? What if Lexus is actually trying to reinvigorate the brand, and actually build cars to meet demand, to stay updated and to not rest on their laurels?

Cynical of me to say this, but if they had been on the ball more, they would have updated it for MY 2018 and not MY 2020. We are in Year 5 of the facelift already, that appeared in September 2013 and yet they waited another 6 years, when the related Toyota Land Cruiser Prado got an update last year.

In terms of the IS, the 4IS can't come soon enough and even that is on target for MY 2021. They are no longer resting on their laurels, but I have to wonder what happened between the lines exactly to be taking so long in some areas? The LX is getting VERY old and may enter the next decade as-is from what I hear about the 220X programme development the next gen.

This might be a forced refresh to keep the GX relevant. Isn't the Prado already on its second refresh?

Yes it is. Both for the GX being a forced refresh and Prado being on its second refresh. I see for some reason I mistakely forgot to fully clarify that I did not believe it was TNGA-F related. Usually I consider the term refresh to mean a very light update, so in this case it sounds like a heavy facelift (as I said "a la 2016 LX").

Another refresh would be fine, IMO. GX has no real competition at this point, so a little nip/tuck would be great for the next ~2 years.

Lol, that sounds a little passive aggressive against TMC. Like you're saying Toyota not push the J150 beyond 2021. The amout of changes sound like they spending a lot of money, which is what I hate more than anything regarding these kind of models. Lots of investment plainly means ¥¥¥/$$$= years upon years to get ROI.: unamused: 2 years will not suffice for them, as seen with the 2013 LS and 2016 LX. They want 4 years, instead of just doing a light update and redesigning in 2021 for MY22. August 2019 will be 9.5 years after it went on sale in January 2010. (SMH)

They are pretty much trying to buy more time on the current 150 platform versus committing to a new one quickly enough by 2020-21. It would be fine if just coming this year but that's not even coming till another year and a half and then add years onto that, making it 5 years from now before a TNGA GX. I'll have to deliberately lose interest in the prospects of the GX, as that is too many years to pay close attention to the future of it.

I hated how a bait-and-switch happened with the 4LS mega facelift and then having to wait another 5 years to hear about an actually NEW LS, not to mention the 2 year period no one knew what was happening with it from 2012 to 2014. Not sure why they keep favouring elongated lifecycles for every model they sell with a base price above $50k USD (includes rounded amounts) . The more attentive customers will move on if you keep selling the same generation vehicle for 15 years, like many did with the 4LS.

amount of work they do on facelift also tells us how long it will take until full redesign.

And this is what I feared the most. In a perfect world, they would've lightly refreshed it for MY2019 and redesigned for MY2022 in spring 2021 (reveal in 2020). This just means we are probably 5 years out from a redesign that truly does this model some justice as seen with the new Camry in example vs 16 year old K platform basis.

They are some rumours that LX and T-LC are just going to be refreshed again, as against a needed redesign. I'd not believe them, but I cannot pretend it isn't a possibility. The LS 460 was on sale for 11 years, with 2 facelifts. The longest luxury T-LC generation ran 9.5 years, yet this one might push 15 years. Shame.

Last GX refresh did wonders but I can't help but the sales person mixing it up potentially with the limitless?

No, no. I don't see how one can mix anything up like that in this case, where one is essentially a larger rear wheel drive version of the RX in execution (if not that instead switching from 760X to 650B?) and this one is pretty much something that looks obviously different from that as a body-on-frame SUV. Not mention, krew and I already highlighted that is many more years away, to the point it would be extremely odd to show it so early. The date for the vehicle in question, is most likely August 2019 and was referred to as the GX specifically.

Your viewpoint doew remind me of back in 2014, when news of a "redesigned"/"all-new" LX came about for the 2016 model year from ignorant sales personnel, not being investigative enough. Myself and a few others were quick to debunk that belief based on the rather rapid timing of the changes not falling in line with internal development at Toyota. We were in the end proven right when photos began leaking in "mid 2015".

A GX that looks more like the current LX, is plainly a GX and unlikely to be a GA-F product based on the date of launch and not using a new styling language. Definitely isn't a RWD CUV based on the description.:)
 
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ssun30

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From @Carmaker1 's comment it really shows how painful the wait for GA-F GX/LX and whole bunch of other BOF vehicles can become.

It seems that the timing of GA-F is so disrupted that they will coincide with the first refresh of early TNGA models. Not to mention a completely new Prius and a bunch of EVs will launch in the similar timeframe.
 

spwolf

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@ssun30 @Carmaker1 I am sure that their plans for GX are in constant flux, especially up until 3 years ago. On the other hand, LC and LX are different story since they were and still are their best sellers. GX has only NA market where it sells well, rest of the world they dont.... LX has Russia and GCC where it sells amazing and it has been outselling LS worldwide for quite a while now.

Prado also sells great worldwide so plans for all these have been firm I believe for a while. Their question was never in doubt.

But GX. Thats another story completely.
 

zeusus

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Maybe they figured the overall sales of SUVs wouldn't stagnate too much with the introduction of the limitless and that would buy more time for them as they work on other models.
 

Carmaker1

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From @Carmaker1 's comment it really shows how painful the wait for GA-F GX/LX and whole bunch of other BOF vehicles can become.

It seems that the timing of GA-F is so disrupted that they will coincide with the first refresh of early TNGA models. Not to mention a completely new Prius and a bunch of EVs will launch in the similar timeframe.

That is so unfortunate. Outside of the Land Cruiser, they've done a poor job keeping models fresh in that area. 4Runner is 5 years old, a revision of the original from 2009 and closely related to 120 based generation from 2002. A 2020 4Runner facelift seems possible, hopefully based on MY 2020 GX plans.

Maybe GX might now be offered in JDM from mid-2019. Six years between FACELIFTS is terrible product cadence and shows how much poor pride in their product they had while developing it for MY 2014 (planned to discontinue), to barely have another facelift many years later.

@ssun30 @Carmaker1 I am sure that their plans for GX are in constant flux, especially up until 3 years ago. On the other hand, LC and LX are different story since they were and still are their best sellers. GX has only NA market where it sells well, rest of the world they dont.... LX has Russia and GCC where it sells amazing and it has been outselling LS worldwide for quite a while now.

Prado also sells great worldwide so plans for all these have been firm I believe for a while. Their question was never in doubt.

But GX. Thats another story completely.

They have plainly been doing a terrible job with managing product cadence, resting on their laurels, considering I had firm confirmation that the 4Runner and GX had no future back in December 2014. Surely after reviewing sales performance of 2014, things changed gradually and by end of 2015, they realized it had to stay in production and needed real attention sooner than GA-F.

You were spot-on in reference to up to three years ago "being in flux", good prediction there. Clearly you know a good deal, as I can see it being reality that the 2020 model entered planning in 2015-16 and requiring some good time to execute by mid-2019.

It is not ground up new, but will require some lead time to get it right, since it may not even move to GA-F until I am middle-aged, someone currently in his late 20s. :sleeping:

The 2016 LX entered planning parallel to the 2012 200 updates and was essentially half-way done with development by late 2013. Several months later, they began showing it to employees in 2014 and released it in late 2015. Something like this GX update, was frozen last year ahead of its mid-2019 Job 1 date.

The amount of time they are spending on new models anyway is unfortunate without some decent updates beforehand, as the U.S. market 4Runner isn't a failure, yet it is neglected as much as the GX as compared to Prado. I hope they do not just update the GX and leave 2020 4Runner as-is.

I already do not like the next Supra, plus so many things outside of LC 500 are not impressing me. In having the means to buy any Lexus I want from CT to LC 500 and LX, ditto for Toyota x2, I didn't want another GT-R in the Supra.

On the 4x4 end, I strictly buy or use Toyota when in Africa and hate having to wait for better products from them as satisfactory replacements to our 150s and 200s. The fact that the 300 isn't going to be out until 2020 is VERY annoying, because it pushes back other models below it.

Seems like Toyota is just waiting for Ford to show their hand with the P702 F-Series for Tundra, thus holding back anything close to it (300, 180 Series).

If I may, I want to apologise for a series of my posts often being somewhat jumbled and full of typos. Between voice-to-text and auto-replace/auto-correct, clearly my tablet and laptop often don't agree with what I have to say and take a mind of their own.
 
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mikeavelli

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The thing is they seem to be selling every GX and LX they sell so they continue to soldier on while they take their time figuring things out. I find it stunning Lexus can manage to sell 2k GX's a month with no marketing and it is an older product while the GS which got pretty amazing reviews, a marketing push and now they sell 600-800 a month. The GX has one engine and is one way, the GS has multiple engines and options and it didn't matter.

Crazy world we live in lol....