Cadillac Cancels CT8 Flagship Sedan

[Gecko]

Cadillac nixes plan for "CT8" flagship sedan

After taking over the reins at Cadillac in mid-2014, Johan de Nysschen started talking about new flagship models for the brand positioned above current range-toppers like the CT6 and Escalade.

The two possibilities he hinted at were a sports car and a high-end sedan.

Now we’re hearing that plans for at least one of these, the high-end sedan, have been nixed (pictured above is Cadillac's Ciel concept from 2011 which was thought to preview design elements of the sedan).

The folks at Autoline mentioned in a tweet that a sedan to be called the CT8 had been canceled and that the likely reason was increased demand for SUVs.

With sedans falling out of favor with many shoppers, even in key markets like the United States and China, it makes sense that Cadillac would want to focus on a segment that’s still booming. Cadillac’s certainly not alone in this thinking.

Bentley and Maserati recently introduced their first SUVs and Aston Martin, Lamborghini and even Rolls-Royce are all working on high-riding models of their own. More mainstream luxury brands Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz are also working on new high-riding models positioned above their current SUV offerings.

But doesn’t Cadillac already offer the Escalade in this segment? The Escalade, though popular in the U.S., isn’t as loved in other markets where SUVs with car-like dynamics are preferred. We know Cadillac is working on a unibody SUV with third-row seats. This one will be based on a stretched version of the XT5’s platform and go up against the Audi Q8, BMW X7 and Mercedes-Benz GLS.

We’ve also heard that an even larger crossover called the XT9 and based on the platform of the CT6 may be developed. If built, the XT9 would compete with an expected Mercedes-Maybach version of the next GLS as well as the Bentley Bentayga and perhaps even Rolls-Royce's new SUV.

Source: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1058995_cadillac-nixes-plan-for-ct8-flagship-sedan--report

 

[mikeavelli]

Now I'm very confused on their product lineup right now....

 

[mmcartalk]

I think it's just a question of available funds....or possibly even limits on personnel. Cadillac has already spent a load of cash recently developing the CT6 large sedan and XT5 mid-size SUV replacement for the SRX....with a smaller, compact CUV/SUV due late next year to complete with the Lincoln MKC and Lexus NX. Presumably (although not much is known about it), a larger car-based, crossover SUV (XT7) is also under development to fill the gap between the XT5 and the big Escalade. It looks to me like the company may be lacking cash and/or personnel to take on another big development project at this time. In other words, not bite off more than they can chew.

 

[Gecko]

I think that as the article states, a lot of this probably has to do with the general market shift towards crossovers and SUVs. In addition, the CT6 is completely unproven so adding another, more expensive, lower volume product on top of that really probably wasn't a good idea - for now - in the first place.

Cadillac has a lot of work to do across the board right now. They need two new CUVs under the XT5, at least one above it and below the Escalade, the ATS and CTS have both done so poorly for the brand, and I think they're planning another sedan under the ATS?

It really wouldn't have been wise to introduce a flagship at a time when the middle and bottom tiers of their portfolio are only partially built out or struggling.

 

[CIF]

Lol. Cadillac seems just as confused as Acura and Infiniti now. Sad state of affairs for them. Personally I don't have much interest in any of the brands.

 

[mmcartalk]

In addition, the CT6 is completely unproven so adding another, more expensive, lower volume product on top of that really probably wasn't a good idea - for now - in the first place.

I agree it's unproven, but I still think the CT6 will do better than the XTS. The XTS, IMO, was especially disappointing. But you're right....no sense going too far out on a limb that may (?) turn out have a crack in it.

They need two new CUVs under the XT5,

Why two new ones? They already have one (upcoming) B-class, compact-sized SUV planned (which will probably be called the XT3)...but there's nothing smaller than that in the American market, right now, in the luxury-class sub-compact CUV , for it to compete with, unless Acura brings the upcoming, Fit-based CDX here. BMW's X1 is really a 3-series wagon. The SUV competition from Mercedes, Audi, and Lincoln (at least currently) is all in the compact C-class, not B-class.

at least one above it and below the Escalade

That, of course, was supposed to be the XT7, but they either cancelled that project or the spy-shooters mis-identified the disguised vehicles they were getting shots of.

the ATS and CTS have both done so poorly for the brand, and I think they're planning another sedan under the ATS?

True, the larger sedans have not done well, but they might (?) be targeting the Lexus CT.

 

[Gecko]

Why two new ones? They already have one (upcoming) B-class, compact-sized SUV planned (which will probably be called the XT3)...but there's nothing smaller than that in the American market, right now, in the luxury-class sub-compact CUV , for it to compete with, unless Acura brings the upcoming, Fit-based CDX here. BMW's X1 is really a 3-series wagon. The SUV competition from Mercedes, Audi, and Lincoln (at least currently) is all in the compact C-class, not B-class.

Cadillac needs to compete with both NX, X3, GLC and Q5, as well as X1, GLA, Q3 and upcoming UX. Those are two different classes for sure.

 

[mikeavelli]

I think a major issue is does anyone really care? I think the German onslaught the past 10 years has forever defined the luxury landscape. Those that didn't keep up will always be an after thought. The Escalade sells based on past Caddy merits, big and bold. Their flagship is a giant boat. Instead of embracing that and making some really luxurious cars in each class, they chased sport which their buyers are not asking for. I am in the industry and I have not had one person ask me about the CT6. Not one. There is no interest and whats sad is after reading about it, it seems rather impressive in some ways.

IMO if Caddy introduces a small SUV, it will only crush the already small ATS sales they have now.

 

[mmcartalk]

Cadillac needs to compete with both NX, X3, GLC and Q5, as well as X1, GLA, Q3 and upcoming UX. Those are two different classes for sure.

Cadillac already has something coming out in that (compact SUV) class....probably late next year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your former post seemed, to me at least, to be suggesting that you also felt Cadillac also needed something smaller than that...a subcompact (B-Class) SUV. Right now, although there are several mainstream vehicles of that B-class in the American market (Nissan Juke, Honda HR-V, Fiat 500X, Jeep Renegade, and Mazda CX-3, with a couple more from Hyundai and Kia on the way), there are no current or projected upmarket/luxury B-class SUVs/CUVs here. If Cadillac did bring out something along that line, right now, there would be no other competitors for it in the American market.....the vehicles you noted are all one size larger (C-class).

 

[mmcartalk]

Instead of embracing that and making some really luxurious cars in each class, they chased sport which their buyers are not asking for.

Now that, I agree with you 100% on. They went in search of a solution that really didn't have a problem.

I have not had one person ask me about the CT6. Not one. There is no interest and whats sad is after reading about it, it seems rather impressive in some ways.

Interesting that you have encountered so little interest (though I'm not doubting your word on it). But, at the D.C. Auto Show in January, the CT6 and Continental were two of the hottest displays there. They attracted crowds like free beer at Happy Hour.

 

[Gecko]

Cadillac already has something coming out in that (compact SUV) class....probably late next year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your former post seemed, to me at least, to be suggesting that you also felt Cadillac also needed something smaller than that...a subcompact (B-Class) SUV. Right now, although there are several mainstream vehicles of that B-class in the American market (Nissan Juke, Honda HR-V, Fiat 500X, Jeep Renegade, and Mazda CX-3, with a couple more from Hyundai and Kia on the way), there are no current or projected upmarket/luxury B-class SUVs/CUVs here. If Cadillac did bring out something along that line, right now, there would be no other competitors for it in the American market.....the vehicles you noted are all one size larger (C-class).

If Cadillac does have a compact SUV coming, that's great, but they still need something sub-compact. I'm not sure if you are aware that the X1, Q3 and GLA are subcompact - same as HR-V, Juke, CX-3 - or if you are arguing that they aren't based on their merits? By badge, there are certainly sub compact SUVs.

Midsize: RX, XT5, GLE

Compact: NX, GLC, X3, Q5, RDX

Sub-compact: X1, Q3, GLA, CDX, upcoming Lexus UX

 

[mmcartalk]

Sub-compact: X1, Q3, GLA, CDX, upcoming Lexus UX

I disagree that the X1 is a subcompact. It is done on the compact 3-series platform, and is essentially a 3-series wagon. Wiki agrees. The Audi Q3 and GLA are also considered compacts....at least by American standards. You are correct, though, that the CDX is a subcompact.....it is done on the Honda Fit platform. I don't know that much about the Lexus UX, so I won't comment on it.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_X1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_Q3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_GLA-Class

 

[IS-SV]

I disagree that the X1 is a subcompact. It is done on the compact 3-series platform, and is essentially a 3-series wagon.

Out of date information. Current X1 is made from a Mini (fwd-oriented) platform.

 

[mikeavelli]

Cadillac already has something coming out in that (compact SUV) class....probably late next year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your former post seemed, to me at least, to be suggesting that you also felt Cadillac also needed something smaller than that...a subcompact (B-Class) SUV. Right now, although there are several mainstream vehicles of that B-class in the American market (Nissan Juke, Honda HR-V, Fiat 500X, Jeep Renegade, and Mazda CX-3, with a couple more from Hyundai and Kia on the way), there are no current or projected upmarket/luxury B-class SUVs/CUVs here. If Cadillac did bring out something along that line, right now, there would be no other competitors for it in the American market.....the vehicles you noted are all one size larger (C-class).

I'm sure Caddy would sell more CUV's than the tiny ATS but that doesn't fix anything for Caddy, they are trading sales not increasing them nor helping increase Caddy's branding. Also it just seeems people want BIG Caddy's not small ones. The XTS is a big FWD boat and it sells well but they continue to try to get rid of these customers for a sporty customer that doesn't want a Caddy. Thats what the competition is for.

To me if Cadillac focused on luxury and a nice ride, they would do better. The sporty market is now super crowded and it seems only Lexus has succeeded in switching roles and going that route.

 

[mmcartalk]

Out of date information. Current X1 is made from a Mini (fwd-oriented) platform.

OK, Thanks, Steve. (and Gecko) I was not aware of the platform-change this year. (Wiki did have it, but you have to look very closely LOL)

And, I guess, as you would say, Steve......back on topic. Here's a small piece from R&T on it. They verify the CT8 cancellation, but are sticking to the hope of a (possible) mega-luxury CT9 and XT9.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28725/cadillac-ct8-cancelled/

The CT8 would have been a larger, more opulent offering at the top of the Cadillac lineup, sitting above the all-new CT6 (the lovely Sixteen Concept is shown above), and in our more optimistic fantasies, echoing the excellent styling of the Elmiraj concept from 2013. The full-size luxury four-door was a segment that Cadillac once defined, but it seems times have changed, with big-dollar buyers preferring crossovers and SUVs to traditional sedans—a trend Cadillac has long capitalized on with the wildly successful Escalade. Sadly, this also squashes our in-no-way-realistic fantasies of a four-door Cadillac convertible.

Of course, just yesterday we brought you the rumor that Cadillac apparently wants to play at the very top end of the ultra-luxury game, with a CT9 sedan and XT9 SUV both aimed for the over-$250,000 range. Will the lack of a CT8 nix the apparent plans for a CT9? We've reached out to Cadillac for comment on both and will update this post with any findings.