New Lexus LC F Rendering Brings Possible Track Edition to Mind

It is amazing how Lexus managed to build two cars, that I find worth their high price for only one aspect (not saying all the rest is bad).

The LFA is worth it even only for its V10, and the LC is worth it even only for its design, that no other can compare to: no Mercedes, no BMW, no Porsche, no Bentley, no Lamborghini, no Ferrari, no Aston Martin. I can't think of one car, that is worth it for even only one aspect (-- maybe Land Cruiser?).

Unfortunately its design does not seem enough. The LC F's rivals will be the M8 and the Continental GT, both with turbocharged +600 PS engines, AWD and AWS. Today a luxury car without AWD is not respected. I think the LC F needs AWD and AWS. Wonder if that will be enough on paper. It should.

Yet I personally think the LC is too good looking to be a fast undrivable and bad sounding car. I'm sorry, but supercharger and turbo never has and never will sound as naturally aspirated.

Levi

Yet I personally think the LC is too good looking to be a fast undrivable and bad sounding car. I'm sorry, but supercharger and turbo never has and never will sound as naturally aspirated.

They could use the same 5.0L NA V8 plus a hybrid system and no turbocharged competition will even compare to the instant response of a hybrid. A 2UR-GSE with a pair of their latest battery packs is already 590hp, plus a few tweaks here and there to easily push it north of 600hp plus AWD and electric torque vectoring, and the best part is this is something they can do today. But they are not going to do that. It's a too un-Lexus thing to do. They are not Porsche. Maybe for whatever reason they want a supercar to last over 200,000 miles so no fancy tech allowed.

The constant talk and tease about THS-R but no commitment to actually do one is becoming very annoying. Closest we are going to get is that GR Super Sport which is basically just a homologated road version of the TS050.

Yes, a performance setup of the LS 600h could be something. It is such a pleasant thing to start driving silently without noise and then firing a great sounding engine at full throttle without take-off lag and then coming back to a crawl in silence.
Unfortunately, here again it will be hard to beat the prowess of German marketing, with the ~700 PS Hybrid Continental GT (Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid Plugin powertrain).

Levi

It is amazing how Lexus managed to build two cars, that I find worth their high price for only one aspect (not saying all the rest is bad).

The LFA is worth it even only for its V10, and the LC is worth it even only for its design, that no other can compare to: no Mercedes, no BMW, no Porsche, no Bentley, no Lamborghini, no Ferrari, no Aston Martin. I can't think of one car, that is worth it for even only one aspect (-- maybe Land Cruiser?).

Unfortunately its design does not seem enough. The LC F's rivals will be the M8 and the Continental GT, both with turbocharged +600 PS engines, AWD and AWS. Today a luxury car without AWD is not respected. I think the LC F needs AWD and AWS. Wonder if that will be enough on paper. It should.

Yet I personally think the LC is too good looking to be a fast undrivable and bad sounding car. I'm sorry, but supercharger and turbo never has and never will sound as naturally aspirated.

I drove the #LCUL8TR quite a bit recently and in Atlanta, you would think its an exotic car. People could not stop taking pics, asking questions, giving thumbs up etc. They simply nailed the design, it does look exotic for 100k compared to the usual suspects.

It also never gets old to hear people talk about it being a LFA or asking is it a LFA. :)

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mikeavelli

I drove the #LCUL8TR quite a bit recently and in Atlanta, you would think its an exotic car. People could not stop taking pics, asking questions, giving thumbs up etc. They simply nailed the design, it does look exotic for 100k compared to the usual suspects.

It also never gets old to hear people talk about it being a LFA or asking is it a LFA. :)

View attachment 2860

Agreed. Waiting on the convertible to pick one up. :)

RichieRich

Agreed. Waiting on the convertible to pick one up. :)

The interior is worth showing off, and it works better in a convertible. I can't think of a better designed interior, be it in luxury coupe/sedan or supercar category, current or passed.

Now CarandDriver is now saying that the LC F is coming in 2022, and will reach the $200,000 price bracket. I wonder where they heard that from? I'm sure they heard the former from our insiders, but the latter I think that is genuine lies. They wouldn't find a single buyer if it was $200,000. That's Audi R8, Porsche 911 Turbo S, Acura NSX money. It doesn't even compete in the same segment. This thing needs to shoot for the Mercedes-Benz S65 AMG and the BMW M8.

One question for the whole forum. Do you think they will make it AWD or keep it RWD? I feel like the drivetrain is the game changer here. Not the powertrain or transmission. How the hell will they manage to put that much power and torque down? If there isn't an AWD system it goes for show how incapable they are of making one. However I do hope one of the proposed AWD systems that was released by the Toyota Newsroom is going to be merged into the LC F.

The link if anyone is interested:

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/2022-lexus-lc-f-more-power-less-weight

There are RWD cars with a lot more than that amount of power and torque, you know. In fact the LC-F will have a lower power-to-weight ratio than the LFA, so RWD is definitely doable, although not optimal.

Anyway if they are making it AWD while reducing weight they will have to find at least 200kg to cut from the LC500.

This is the type of engine Toyota should have developed years ago. They’re late and it sounds more like fanciful vaporware than reality. All talk.

Assuming this ever does get released, that price point is way too high. You can get 500 to 600 HP V8 AMG, BMW M or Audi RS NOW for way, way less than that. It won’t sell, especially considering Lexus’ solidified reputation of exaggerating performance numbers. I doubt people who buy these cars would be fooled or at least not research it more than the average Camry buyer and see through the charade, especially since performance is fundamental when you talk about AMG or M cars.

Will Toyota prove me wrong? Doubt it.


Here, Toyota should take lessons in this. They could learn a thing or two if they expect their F cars to compete. Like the LS. Anyone else would publish a 60 time of 5.6 seconds or slower, not Lexus (lol) and it doesn’t take much research to see real numbers.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/12305/...models-are-always-conservative-tech-boss-says

Turns out Audi has been lying to us all these years—but with our best intentions at heart. As it turns out, those impressive performance stats the carmaker trots out with every new RS model are actually kind of, to use the term of the moment, fake news.

So sayeth Stephan Reil, who serves as head of technical development for Audi Sport GmbH. Reil admitted as much to Australia's CarAdvice at the launch of the new, secretly-hybridized Audi RS5.

"“I’ve been in this job for nearly 20 years, and with all the cars I’ve worked on, the performance numbers we published were conservative," Reil said. "So, if we say 3.9 seconds, you will measure, maybe, 3.7 if the conditions are fine, probably 3.8, but even under the worst conditions, you’ll do it in 3.9 seconds. But you will not find a 4.0."


In other words, Audi never wants to see any customers wind up with a car that doesn't live up to its promises. Not just customers, either—journalists, too.

"The reason we are conservative with these numbers is simple," Reil told CarAdvice. I simply don’t want to hear [it] when you guys write ‘Well, they claim 3.9, but we got 4.0.'”

A glance at independent tests of recent Audi RS models proves there's substance behind Reil's words. Audi quotes a 3.6-second 0-60 dash for the 605-horsepower RS7 Performance, for example—but Car and Driver squeezed a 3.2-second version out of their test car. Funnily enough, Audi quotes that same 3.2-second 0-60 sprint for the R8 V10 Plus...but that didn't stop Motor Trend from launching that car from naught to a-mile-a-minute in 2.6.

That said, this sort of number-fudging isn't uncommon among German performance car companies. Porsche, in particular, has become notorious for delivering cars that consistently outdo their quotes 0-60 times, and Mercedes-AMG's models are often known to do the same. While Reil is obviously only speaking for his brand...we wouldn't be surprised if his counterparts at those other companies would admit something similar after a couple glasses of pilsner.

It seems that after a bit of forum reading I have found something interesting. This is not relevant to the LC F in specific HOWEVER, the insider in our fellow compatriot forum SupraMKV.com, the person who has helped us TMC enthusiasts inch along with excitement with news of the upcoming 2019 Toyota Supra as time passes, has moved on to Lexus to pursue a new project.

You still may be thinking...... what does this have to do with F? Or Lexus news in general?

The insider of that forum has subtly uttered that they are involved with two new projects with "[essential] updates coming in the form of Fun", emphasizing the letter F. He also mentions in other parts of the thread and other subsidiary posts in the forum that he is working with two Lexus vehicles (there's an ounce of repetition I know). My takeaway from this is that there will be two new Lexus F cars. My bet is on the IS F and the LC F along with a better next generation RC F and a next generation GS F (assuming the GS stays alive). If not, then it will be the updated GS F and RC F. Still though, looking at how Toyota is going crazy with the Supra, this is going to be good. The good days are finally here. Welcome back Toyota and Lexus.

F1 Silver Arrows

It seems that after a bit of forum reading I have found something interesting. This is not relevant to the LC F in specific HOWEVER, the insider in our fellow compatriot forum SupraMKV.com, the person who has helped us TMC enthusiasts inch along with excitement with news of the upcoming 2019 Toyota Supra as time passes, has moved on to Lexus to pursue a new project.

You still may be thinking...... what does this have to do with F? Or Lexus news in general?

The insider of that forum has subtly uttered that they are involved with two new projects with "[essential] updates coming in the form of Fun", emphasizing the letter F. He also mentions in other parts of the thread and other subsidiary posts in the forum that he is working with two Lexus vehicles (there's an ounce of repetition I know). My takeaway from this is that there will be two new Lexus F cars. My bet is on the IS F and the LC F along with a better next generation RC F and a next generation GS F (assuming the GS stays alive). If not, then it will be the updated GS F and RC F. Still though, looking at how Toyota is going crazy with the Supra, this is going to be good. The good days are finally here. Welcome back Toyota and Lexus.

Gazoo racing is working on a new GS F. But dont know whether it's a updated one or a new generation one.

krew

Lexus LC F to Debut in 2021 with Over 600 Horsepower?

Also suggests a $200,000 price tag.

View the original article post

F1 Silver Arrows

One question for the whole forum. Do you think they will make it AWD or keep it RWD? I feel like the drivetrain is the game changer here. Not the powertrain or transmission. How the hell will they manage to put that much power and torque down? If there isn't an AWD system it goes for show how incapable they are of making one.

why in the world would you want this to be AWD? It should be RWD.

Lexus just needs to quit gimping the low end torque of the 5L V8, that's why it feels like a pig, not enough torque down low. My LS430 and LS600hL have more balls down low than any of the F cars.

Why are people so desperate about AWD? 812, AMG GTR, R8 RWS, LP580-2, 911 GT3, GT2, RS, Astons and McLarens are all RWD. Lexus does not compete with Bentley so the comparison is useless. People generally care about AWD in four doors that are better daily driven. Even the M5 and E63 did not ditch RWD completely and Lexus will always focus more on longevity and reliability.
AWD isn’t even that helpful when the car has 600+ HP especially when technology is so good right now that four wheel steering, TVD, stability and traction controls ETC can make RWDs very controllable without the weight of AWD.

The NSX is a flop, not because of the performance but the price mark up and the quality is garbage compare to Lexus. Acura focus too much on the short term revenues rather than the long term.
Based on the past, Lexus focus more on the long term, so I’m sure they are willing to reduce the profit margin on the LCF for the long term brand profit.

The LC500 is pretty much limited production to 400 a month globally, and Lexus may produce the LCF similar to the 991.2 GT3RS in a limited one or two years production.

Also, from the LFA, LC500, RCF and GSF, I can see that Lexus doesn’t follow trends that well. I think Lexus will make AWDs in the next generations when they perfect the solid state battery.

I think Lexus should use forged carbon instead of CFRP on the body panels and non structural parts to reduce the price. Remove the back seat because people that want a daily GT will almost always go for the LC500, beside the back seats are useless. The LC was never intended to directly compete with the S Coupe because it is shorter, lower and lighter. It was intended to sit between the AMG GT and the S Coupe and the LCF should sit between the AMG GTR and S63.

If the LC is to be RWD only and not AWD, it is a pity it does not have a transaxle like the LFA and the AMG GT. With all the turbo ancillaries it will be even more nose heavy than the LC 500, which is already nose-heavier than the LC 500h. Ferrari is very well able to make TVD with RWS in their transaxle DCT, and their second FWD transmission is very smart.

The LC is really may favorite 'useless' car on sale. But those buyers that show-off with their toys, what will make the LC with V8 turbo a better car than the Vantage with V8 turbo? The Vantage V8 turbo will even get a manual 7 speed transaxle, and the lack of rear seats will not be an issue, the LC does not have practical rear seats. The main negative of the Vantage are the tacky front and rear bumpers and the Mercedes interior, but customers like Mercedes, so this should not be an demerit for them.

Airplane

Why are people so desperate about AWD? 812, AMG GTR, R8 RWS, LP580-2, 911 GT3, GT2, RS, Astons and McLarens are all RWD. Lexus does not compete with Bentley so the comparison is useless.

Well Lexus certainly doesn't compete with the ones you mentioned either :) LC is a closer competitor to Bentley GT while looking like AMG GT. But I do agree LC doesn't need to be AWD at all at the moment. Let's see what they can do with F variation this time.

mediumhot

Well Lexus certainly doesn't compete with the ones you mentioned either :) LC is a closer competitor to Bentley GT while looking like AMG GT. But I do agree LC doesn't need to be AWD at all at the moment. Let's see what they can do with F variation this time.

LC is not even close to being a Bentley competitor. Even the S Coupe is a closer competitor than the Bentley GT. The closest competitor is the DB11 V8

Levi

If the LC is to be RWD only and not AWD, it is a pity it does not have a transaxle like the LFA and the AMG GT. With all the turbo ancillaries it will be even more nose heavy than the LC 500, which is already nose-heavier than the LC 500h. Ferrari is very well able to make TVD with RWS in their transaxle DCT, and their second FWD transmission is very smart.

The LC is really may favorite 'useless' car on sale. But those buyers that show-off with their toys, what will make the LC with V8 turbo a better car than the Vantage with V8 turbo? The Vantage V8 turbo will even get a manual 7 speed transaxle, and the lack of rear seats will not be an issue, the LC does not have practical rear seats. The main negative of the Vantage are the tacky front and rear bumpers and the Mercedes interior, but customers like Mercedes, so this should not be an demerit for them.

Which is why the LC was never a car for me sadly.
Honestly TMC can do anything they want, they can compete with MB, Aston, and Porsche. It all comes down what car they want to make. I’m sure TMC can suddenly convert the LCF to a transaxle layout or as light as the GTR.

Mk4UmHa

Lexus just needs to quit gimping the low end torque of the 5L V8, that's why it feels like a pig, not enough torque down low. My LS430 and LS600hL have more balls down low than any of the F cars.

I own an RCF and granted it is lighter than GSF and significantly lighter than the LC500 by close to 400 lbs, the 5.0 Liter V8 is a masterpiece and I could not have asked for more. Absolutely a joy to listen to and rev all the way out as well as the razor sharp throttle response. One of the best engines Lexus ever put in a car this side of the LFA V10. Comparing this engine to your LS430 engine, is apples to oranges as 90% of the 390 ft-lbs on this engine stay from 4000 rpm all the way to 7450 rpm.

A high performance naturally aspirated engine that produces 95 HP/Liter, needs to be bored/stroked to not run out of steam at high rpms. In order to ensure it breathes well at high rpm, it is bored/stroked accordingly. That sacrifices low end torque mostly below 3000 rpm. Once over 3000 rpm, the engine pulls like a freight train starting at 4000 rpm and like I stated above, at any given rpm above it produces at least 90% of that even before the rev cut-off.

I've noticed an interesting phenomenon lately where the RC F is finally getting its due from enthusiasts who'd initially written it off, typically without having driven it first. There are Youtube videos now with titles to the effect of "We misjudged the Lexus RC-F". I think it helps that the LC exists now to put it more in context.

Faisal Sheikh

I own an RCF and granted it is lighter than GSF and significantly lighter than the LC500 by close to 400 lbs, the 5.0 Liter V8 is a masterpiece and I could not have asked for more. Absolutely a joy to listen to and rev all the way out as well as the razor sharp throttle response. One of the best engines Lexus ever put in a car this side of the LFA V10. Comparing this engine to your LS430 engine, is apples to oranges as 90% of the 390 ft-lbs on this engine stay from 4000 rpm all the way to 7450 rpm.
.

I love the Lexus NA V8 5 l engine!

If the LC F gets a twin-turbo V8 with RWD only, isn't that a bit late, like one BMW M6 generation late? Other than good design, what would an LC F have more than an M6 Coupe or AMG S Coupe? And that when even the German coupes are not well selling compared to their 4 door versions or CUV versions?

We now see at VAG at least, that the top versions of their models are performance P/HEVs. They might be heavier than the performance ICEV versions, but those are not light or track focused to begin with, which is somehow a non-argument.

Wouldn't a hybrid LC F make sense? Lexus's whole range is based around efficiency focused HEVs, and are the most sold versions in Europe. Would not a performance focused HEV, branded F make sense? Lexus will never be able to rival Germans and will remain a niche in terms of specialty cars, so why not have something different for a low volume car?

TMC hybrid system for FWD-based AWD cars has two electric motors, one at the front axle and one at the rear axle. The front axle is driven by both the internal combustion engine and the front electric motor, whereas the rear axle is only driven by the rear EM and is not mechanically connected to the ICE. Such a setup could also be fitted for RWD car. The LC 500h is mechanically RWD and the LS 500h AWD is mechanically AWD, with a transfer case. The electric motor is located between the engine and the transmission, so is the transmission and transfer case is RWD or AWD plays no role. What could be possible however is for an AWD system where the front axle is not mechanically linked through the transfer case, but there is only an electric motor. That would be the same setup as the 918 Spyder and the NSX, except the the engine would be mid-front rather than mid-rear.

Seeing how the Ferrari FF/GTC4 technically a RWD car with additional FWD traction rather than conventional rear-biased AWD, I expect Ferrari's CUV to have the same setup, but in front, instead of having a second transmission, it would have an electric engine.

It is quite sad to see that Lexus HEVs are perceived inferior now.

PeterF

I love the Lexus NA V8 5 l engine!

Yeah, you guys get a much better exhaust note than we do stock in the LC. RCF is like 90% engine noise and only 10% exhaust.

Ha !! I said it I knew it !!! But 200 thousand , nooooooooo please noooo ! I hope that it is 130 base 150 max , then it will sell like hot cakes in the winter . Lexus listen to me ! , keep the car price low , you see what happened to the NSX DONT sell it over 200 thousands . If Lexus stays in the 150 Zone, it will be a super car that everyone and there Mother’s would want , with no maintenance issues at all .

I agree, that’s way too much. In fact the current MSRP of the LC sits near such esteemed competitors as the Mercedes AMG GT, BMW M5 and Audi RS7, which already puts out 600 or near 600 HP and performance that smashes the LC, with nice touches of luxury. Just look:

2018 BMW M5: $102k and 600 HP (legitimate 3.2 s or faster)
2018 Mercedes AMG GTS: $132k and 515 HP (legitimate 3.7 s or faster)
2018 Mercedes E63s: $104k and 603 HP (legitimate 3.3 s or faster)
2018 Audi RS7: $113k and 569 HP (legitimate 3.5 s or faster)

2018 Lexus LC: $92k and 471 HP (legitimate 4.7 s or faster)
LCF: $200k and 600 HP (insert overrated manufacturer number here)

BMW M8: probably $110k-$130k and 600 HP

That’s why LC sales will likely continue to plummet in my opinion. Unless you’re a die-hard Lexus fan (which probably already purchased one), people would probably cross shop a lot of these. I would.

Oh, and I would take the Mercedes E63S, RS7 or M5 over the current LC. Pay a little more to get A LOT, LOT, LOT more. If you can afford the LC, you can probably afford the others as well and it would be an easy choice.

$200k for an LCF is just laughable. In fact the current LC should be $75k (the current price is a joke) and the LCF should be half of whatever they’re smoking.

There is absolutely no way the the BMW M8 will be $110k-$130k lol... it will be more like $150k base, which will easily get close to $200k with options. The S63 Coupe starts at $150k, and the S65 Coupe (V12) that MotorTrend reviewed was $250k.

So I'd say $130k-$150k is a definitely a reasonable price for the LC F to start at. I think the C/D rumor about the price is 99% likely to be false.

I don’t think it will be anywhere near $150k. My bet is $120k-$130k MSRP.

I think it will be priced competively to the AMG GTR coupe and new four-door AMG GT coupe and we already know the MSRP of that car.

It doesn’t matter, though, the whole point being is that $200k for an LCF would be dumb, which wouldn’t surprise me considering the MSRP of the LC now...

Fact of the matter, I would bet the LCF and 600 HP engine will not not even make it to production. Toyota/Lexus doesn’t know how to build performance engines anymore and I stand by that. I haven’t been proven wrong yet.

This thread has had so much nonsense that it has become very hard to join the discussion.

I agree, like the $200k price tag for an LCF...