Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan to be Offered with BMW Inline-Six Turbo Engine?

As I said often, it is indeed on schedule for MY 2021 July SOP nd Merrill Lynch Car Wars were full of it, in claiming MY 2020. Question is, will this truly be a GA-L car or a new application called GA-N, based on new Crown?

spwolf

They had nothing to do with anything. Only reason Toyota didn't make AWD Corolla or Camry before was that they did not seem it worth it.

Toyota also owns Torsen and is overall largest producer of 4x4 systems in the world. Most Japanese Toyotas have some kind of AWD system.

The Camry will go in that direction very, very soon anyway, as will the Avalon. The ES will be offered with AWD, starting in December 2018 for Europe and UK (if not already mentioned). And not to play semantics, but surely you remember the Camry was available with AWD until 1991 and Corolla until 1992.

Development of the RAV4 by 1990, shuttered an E100 All-Trac and early, but delayed plans for a Highlander -like offering (development started in 1996) against the XV10 of September 1991.

On a side note, according to Gecko, the 4Runner barely survived as it is since Generation 3-4. Naturally, a 4th generation 4runner (N210), would arrived by 2001.

In 1998, Toyota instead approved the final design of what was the Highlander/Kluger by May and finalized specifications in late October/early November on a new midsize platform. There were no plans to redesign the 4Runner allegedly, as this new model would arrive in early 2001, as a timely unibody replacement for it.

(Take note that the second generation model was released April 1989 as an early 1990MY, 5 years after the original 1984.5 and redesigned in September 1995 as the Hilux Surf (N180).)

It wasn't until a round of design efforts during 1999 and 2000, that anything bore fruit to the 4th generation 4Runner (N210), that arrived in October 2002 as a more luxurious offering (compared to N180), based on a more upscale Prado 120 and Lexus GX 470 (120-Series was developed with Lexus in mind from 1997). In many ways, the current 4Runner is handicapped as a North American offering, built in Japan.

My point is, Toyota don't always make the soundest decisions with product planning and sometimes have to catch themselves, before making final commitments during development stages and even later after launch.

As I said often, it is indeed on schedule for MY 2021 July SOP nd Merrill Lynch Car Wars were full of it, in claiming MY 2020. Question is, will this truly be a GA-L car or a new application called GA-N, based on new Crown?

spwolf

They had nothing to do with anything. Only reason Toyota didn't make AWD Corolla or Camry before was that they did not seem it worth it.

Toyota also owns Torsen and is overall largest producer of 4x4 systems in the world. Most Japanese Toyotas have some kind of AWD system.

The Camry will go in that direction very, very soon anyway, as will the Avalon. The ES will be offered with AWD, starting in December 2018 for Europe and UK (if not already mentioned). And not to play semantics, but surely you remember the Camry was available with AWD until 1991 and Corolla until 1992.

Development of the RAV4 by 1990, shuttered an E100 All-Trac and early, but delayed plans for a Highlander -like offering (development started in 1996) against the XV10 of September 1991.

On a side note, according to Gecko, the 4Runner barely survived as it is since Generation 3-4. Naturally, a 4th generation 4runner (N210), would arrived by 2001.

In 1998, Toyota instead approved the final design of what was the Highlander/Kluger by May and finalized specifications in late October/early November on a new midsize platform. There were no plans to redesign the 4Runner allegedly, as this new model would arrive in early 2001, as a timely unibody replacement for it.

(Take note that the second generation model was released April 1989 as an early 1990MY, 5 years after the original 1984.5 and redesigned in September 1995 as the Hilux Surf (N180).)

It wasn't until a round of design efforts during 1999 and 2000, that anything bore fruit to the 4th generation 4Runner (N210), that arrived in October 2002 as a more luxurious offering (compared to N180), based on a more upscale Prado 120 and Lexus GX 470 (120-Series was developed with Lexus in mind from 1997). In many ways, the current 4Runner is handicapped as a North American offering, built in Japan.

My point is, Toyota don't always make the soundest decisions with product planning and sometimes have to catch themselves, before making final commitments during development stages and even later after launch.

spwolf

Toyota also owns Torsen and is overall largest producer of 4x4 systems in the world.

Huh, did not know that.

spwolf

Toyota also owns Torsen and is overall largest producer of 4x4 systems in the world.

Huh, did not know that.

If this Mag-X article turns out to be correct, given that 4IS will share the shorter of 3 available GA-L wheelbases with LC theoretically leaves room for a 5GS that shares the 2920mm (115") wheelbase with the 18th-gen Toyota Crown. That doesn't mean, of course, that there will be a 5GS...

If this Mag-X article turns out to be correct, given that 4IS will share the shorter of 3 available GA-L wheelbases with LC theoretically leaves room for a 5GS that shares the 2920mm (115") wheelbase with the 18th-gen Toyota Crown. That doesn't mean, of course, that there will be a 5GS...

Joaquin Ruhi

If this Mag-X article turns out to be correct, given that 4IS will share the shorter of 3 available GA-L wheelbases with LC theoretically leaves room for a 5GS that shares the 2920mm (115") wheelbase with the 18th-gen Toyota Crown. That doesn't mean, of course, that there will be a 5GS...

Does Mag X have the correct facts, when I have recently pointed out that the GA-L is not shared with the Crown? It is on TNGA-N.

Joaquin Ruhi

If this Mag-X article turns out to be correct, given that 4IS will share the shorter of 3 available GA-L wheelbases with LC theoretically leaves room for a 5GS that shares the 2920mm (115") wheelbase with the 18th-gen Toyota Crown. That doesn't mean, of course, that there will be a 5GS...

Does Mag X have the correct facts, when I have recently pointed out that the GA-L is not shared with the Crown? It is on TNGA-N.

Carmaker1

Does Mag X have the correct facts, when I have recently pointed out that the GA-L is not shared with the Crown?

Wow! I'm floored! All along, I was under the impression that Toyota Crown15 shared the GA-L platform with Lexus LC and LS. You mentioned Crown15 being on a TNGA-N platform a few minutes ago on another Lexus Enthusiast thread and was puzzled. But you're absolutely right. The latest update to Wikipedia's Toyota Crown article indeed states that it's on GA-N, and backs that up with this smoking gun: an article on the TNGA platform from Japanese website Prius-News.com

Carmaker1

Does Mag X have the correct facts, when I have recently pointed out that the GA-L is not shared with the Crown?

Wow! I'm floored! All along, I was under the impression that Toyota Crown15 shared the GA-L platform with Lexus LC and LS. You mentioned Crown15 being on a TNGA-N platform a few minutes ago on another Lexus Enthusiast thread and was puzzled. But you're absolutely right. The latest update to Wikipedia's Toyota Crown article indeed states that it's on GA-N, and backs that up with this smoking gun: an article on the TNGA platform from Japanese website Prius-News.com

Joaquin Ruhi

Wow! I'm floored! All along, I was under the impression that Toyota Crown18 shared the GA-L platform with Lexus LC and LS. You mentioned Crown18 being on a TNGA-N platform a few minutes ago on another Lexus Enthusiast thread and was puzzled. But you're absolutely right. The latest update to Wikipedia's Toyota Crown article indeed states that it's on GA-N, and backs that up with this smoking gun: an article on the TNGA platform from Japanese website Prius-News.com

Ironically, I am the one who corrected that on Wikipedia recently. Because I am guilty of claiming the Crown would debut TNGA-L, when such a thing doesn't seem to exist. Thanks to my being extra proactive with my S220 = TNGA-L (since S220 spy shots) last year, a lot of credible sources wrongfully went with that as valid. My fault honestly, so I am doing clean-up really quickly.:blush:

Joaquin Ruhi

Wow! I'm floored! All along, I was under the impression that Toyota Crown18 shared the GA-L platform with Lexus LC and LS. You mentioned Crown18 being on a TNGA-N platform a few minutes ago on another Lexus Enthusiast thread and was puzzled. But you're absolutely right. The latest update to Wikipedia's Toyota Crown article indeed states that it's on GA-N, and backs that up with this smoking gun: an article on the TNGA platform from Japanese website Prius-News.com

Ironically, I am the one who corrected that on Wikipedia recently. Because I am guilty of claiming the Crown would debut TNGA-L, when such a thing doesn't seem to exist. Thanks to my being extra proactive with my S220 = TNGA-L (since S220 spy shots) last year, a lot of credible sources wrongfully went with that as valid. My fault honestly, so I am doing clean-up really quickly.:blush:

Carmaker1

Ironically, I am the one who corrected that on Wikipedia recently. Because I am guilty of claiming the Crown would debut TNGA-L, when such a thing doesn't seem to exist. Thanks to my being extra proactive with my S220 = TNGA-L (since S220 spy shots) last year, a lot of credible sources wrongfully went with that as valid. My fault honestly, so I am doing clean-up really quickly.:blush:

Ha! For some reason, I had a crazy hunch that you might have been behind that Wikipedia update...

Carmaker1

Ironically, I am the one who corrected that on Wikipedia recently. Because I am guilty of claiming the Crown would debut TNGA-L, when such a thing doesn't seem to exist. Thanks to my being extra proactive with my S220 = TNGA-L (since S220 spy shots) last year, a lot of credible sources wrongfully went with that as valid. My fault honestly, so I am doing clean-up really quickly.:blush:

Ha! For some reason, I had a crazy hunch that you might have been behind that Wikipedia update...

Well it’s about time we get some good news ! The IS is getting larger , I hope that space is in the trunk and the back seat . Then it will be a real revelry between the Germans . Could we please get 350hp and a IS F 400 plus , with a dual clutch and a 50/50 weight distribution . Please !

Well it’s about time we get some good news ! The IS is getting larger , I hope that space is in the trunk and the back seat . Then it will be a real revelry between the Germans . Could we please get 350hp and a IS F 400 plus , with a dual clutch and a 50/50 weight distribution . Please !

(TN)GA-N is still an FR platform, and thus similar to GA-L. The older N platform was shared amongst the Crown and GS. Now Toyota has introduced some divergence with GA-L being Lexus specific, and GA-N being for Toyota models like the Crown.

https://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/toyota/23102775.html?padid=ag478_from_kv

Toyota's Crown press release clearly confirms this as a TNGA car, thus dispelling any strange notions of this being on the old N platform.

(TN)GA-N is still an FR platform, and thus similar to GA-L. The older N platform was shared amongst the Crown and GS. Now Toyota has introduced some divergence with GA-L being Lexus specific, and GA-N being for Toyota models like the Crown.

https://newsroom.toyota.co.jp/en/toyota/23102775.html?padid=ag478_from_kv

Toyota's Crown press release clearly confirms this as a TNGA car, thus dispelling any strange notions of this being on the old N platform.

So by this magX new rumor if true
The next IS will be the international luxurious version for the next generation of my beloved Mark-X

I like this rumor a lot, actually this rumor give life for next generation GS based in same formula with the new generation crown especially after deleting the Majesta & the Royal for this new generation

So by this magX new rumor if true
The next IS will be the international luxurious version for the next generation of my beloved Mark-X

I like this rumor a lot, actually this rumor give life for next generation GS based in same formula with the new generation crown especially after deleting the Majesta & the Royal for this new generation

Carmaker1

My point is, Toyota don't always make the soundest decisions with product planning and sometimes have to catch themselves, before making final commitments during development stages and even later after launch.

Absolutely, but being part owners of Subaru means nothing to these decisions... even with Daihatsu, they started operating as integrated company only when they folded it into Toyota greater last or year before that.

Cars like Yaris and Corolla have always had awd system in Japan, but product planners likely decided that it is not wanted outside Japan.

Just like for new TNGA platforms, they have now decides that it will be useful to have AWD sedans, I would guess to compete better with SUVs and make them more competitive vs other vehicles.

I wonder if this is something Akio spearheaded, considering how low AWD sales of vehicles like C-HR are in Europe for instance. More about brand image and good press than actually making money on it... I like it.

Carmaker1

My point is, Toyota don't always make the soundest decisions with product planning and sometimes have to catch themselves, before making final commitments during development stages and even later after launch.

Absolutely, but being part owners of Subaru means nothing to these decisions... even with Daihatsu, they started operating as integrated company only when they folded it into Toyota greater last or year before that.

Cars like Yaris and Corolla have always had awd system in Japan, but product planners likely decided that it is not wanted outside Japan.

Just like for new TNGA platforms, they have now decides that it will be useful to have AWD sedans, I would guess to compete better with SUVs and make them more competitive vs other vehicles.

I wonder if this is something Akio spearheaded, considering how low AWD sales of vehicles like C-HR are in Europe for instance. More about brand image and good press than actually making money on it... I like it.

mikeavelli

http://performancedrive.com.au/2020-lexus-is-to-be-topped-by-twin-turbo-v6-flagship-rumour-0409/

Rumors the LS TT-V6 makes it in the new IS. It better Lexus lags way behind now in hp in this segment.

2021 is a perfect (for me) release date! My 2010 IS350 will likely need replacing by then or I can hand it down to my son who will be turning 16 then! C'Mon Lexus, don't let me down!

mikeavelli

http://performancedrive.com.au/2020-lexus-is-to-be-topped-by-twin-turbo-v6-flagship-rumour-0409/

Rumors the LS TT-V6 makes it in the new IS. It better Lexus lags way behind now in hp in this segment.

2021 is a perfect (for me) release date! My 2010 IS350 will likely need replacing by then or I can hand it down to my son who will be turning 16 then! C'Mon Lexus, don't let me down!

Wow 2013-2021
Hope they wasn't this lazy

Wow 2013-2021
Hope they wasn't this lazy

joepac

2021 is a perfect (for me) release date! My 2010 IS350 will likely need replacing by then or I can hand it down to my son who will be turning 16 then! C'Mon Lexus, don't let me down!

No, I strongly disagree (industry basis). 2021 is not a good release date nor is it the actual date, unless you live in a territory that gets staggered launches after JDM and USA. (Buying an XE40 6-9 months in, is not a bad idea, as it will not be Job #1 anymore.)

For a platform on its last legs, merely a heavy redo of a longtime aging platform that might even date back to 1991, Toyota needs to get this the hell out ASAP and is already pushing it, by allowing the facelifted IS to run 4 years without further aesthetic and major mechanical improvements. Should've been rushed for NYIAS reveal, then Q4 2019 launch as MY 2020 or Q1 2020 like LS in 2018. This car won't even be seen until Chicago 2020 or later, since no NAIAS in January.

The N platform just might even date back to 1991 via S140 cars, with New N being introduced in 2011-12 on the L10, 2013 for IS, and likely hindering the ability to introduce a TTV6 pre-2020 because of limitations.

A 2021 release means, the 2GR V6 only changed a smidgen (just once!) over a 16-year period for IS 350. That right there is pitiful and reeks of grossly resting on their laurels. The GS is suffering, as the actual customer for it can already perceive the lack of improvement in certain areas and made the choice to buy something else, until Lexus makes the necessary enhancements.

Some form of cognitive dissonance has allowed product planners to be blind to that and just cancel the GS redesign. The IS 350 suffers from that, where the existing and targeted customer base for such a vehicle, are not being motivated by the lack of changes to buy or lease another.

On a side note: It does annoy me when people try to make it seem as if, just because other Lexus customers and overall segment buyers, "don't care about numbers", doesn't mean this applies to buyers of the range-topping 350s, 3.0t RSes, M340is, and 450 AMGs. An IS 300 I4 RWD buyer is not a IS 350 buyer, who given consideration to spend more money for more performance and prestige in some cases.

These kind of buyers pay more attention to numbers and will not buy, unlike the IS300 RWD buyer, who just wants a good deal on a flashy car or strictly is being prudent.

A car with the once highly competitive engine in 2005, will NOT stand tall in 2018, just because of a suffix and Atkinson cycle changes, small increase in hp.

I am strongly highlighting this, to point out I disagree fervently that the IS will not come with a new twin-turbo V6 to replace the IS 350 or supplant it as a non-F variant range topper.

In advance, the LS offering this engine doesn't mean other Lexus vehicles cannot use it. Once upon a time, the IS had a petrol 5.0 litre V8 and flagship LS600hL similar to it. Not to mention even GS 460 and LS 460 for a brief spell.

Also, ES is irrelevant to whether or not the IS will benefit from such an engine. The ES does not compete with the 3-Series, C-Class, XE, and Q50. So, therefore the ES 350 suffices with 2GR-FKS. Honestly, a detuned AWD ES 400 would be a little better. In fact, back in late 2015 and early 2016, there were turbo ES mules running around New York and elsewhere.

When your competitors are offering TT 6-cylinders, don't bring a bat to a gunfight and show up with a NA V6 in use essentially for 2 previous generations into a 3rd one! I really cannot stomach nor entertain justifications, as to why they should keep the current 3.5L unchanged upon redesign.

I like and respect the Lexus brand, but I will never be an apologist for bad product planning.

joepac

2021 is a perfect (for me) release date! My 2010 IS350 will likely need replacing by then or I can hand it down to my son who will be turning 16 then! C'Mon Lexus, don't let me down!

No, I strongly disagree (industry basis). 2021 is not a good release date nor is it the actual date, unless you live in a territory that gets staggered launches after JDM and USA. (Buying an XE40 6-9 months in, is not a bad idea, as it will not be Job #1 anymore.)

For a platform on its last legs, merely a heavy redo of a longtime aging platform that might even date back to 1991, Toyota needs to get this the hell out ASAP and is already pushing it, by allowing the facelifted IS to run 4 years without further aesthetic and major mechanical improvements. Should've been rushed for NYIAS reveal, then Q4 2019 launch as MY 2020 or Q1 2020 like LS in 2018. This car won't even be seen until Chicago 2020 or later, since no NAIAS in January.

The N platform just might even date back to 1991 via S140 cars, with New N being introduced in 2011-12 on the L10, 2013 for IS, and likely hindering the ability to introduce a TTV6 pre-2020 because of limitations.

A 2021 release means, the 2GR V6 only changed a smidgen (just once!) over a 16-year period for IS 350. That right there is pitiful and reeks of grossly resting on their laurels. The GS is suffering, as the actual customer for it can already perceive the lack of improvement in certain areas and made the choice to buy something else, until Lexus makes the necessary enhancements.

Some form of cognitive dissonance has allowed product planners to be blind to that and just cancel the GS redesign. The IS 350 suffers from that, where the existing and targeted customer base for such a vehicle, are not being motivated by the lack of changes to buy or lease another.

On a side note: It does annoy me when people try to make it seem as if, just because other Lexus customers and overall segment buyers, "don't care about numbers", doesn't mean this applies to buyers of the range-topping 350s, 3.0t RSes, M340is, and 450 AMGs. An IS 300 I4 RWD buyer is not a IS 350 buyer, who given consideration to spend more money for more performance and prestige in some cases.

These kind of buyers pay more attention to numbers and will not buy, unlike the IS300 RWD buyer, who just wants a good deal on a flashy car or strictly is being prudent.

A car with the once highly competitive engine in 2005, will NOT stand tall in 2018, just because of a suffix and Atkinson cycle changes, small increase in hp.

I am strongly highlighting this, to point out I disagree fervently that the IS will not come with a new twin-turbo V6 to replace the IS 350 or supplant it as a non-F variant range topper.

In advance, the LS offering this engine doesn't mean other Lexus vehicles cannot use it. Once upon a time, the IS had a petrol 5.0 litre V8 and flagship LS600hL similar to it. Not to mention even GS 460 and LS 460 for a brief spell.

Also, ES is irrelevant to whether or not the IS will benefit from such an engine. The ES does not compete with the 3-Series, C-Class, XE, and Q50. So, therefore the ES 350 suffices with 2GR-FKS. Honestly, a detuned AWD ES 400 would be a little better. In fact, back in late 2015 and early 2016, there were turbo ES mules running around New York and elsewhere.

When your competitors are offering TT 6-cylinders, don't bring a bat to a gunfight and show up with a NA V6 in use essentially for 2 previous generations into a 3rd one! I really cannot stomach nor entertain justifications, as to why they should keep the current 3.5L unchanged upon redesign.

I like and respect the Lexus brand, but I will never be an apologist for bad product planning.

joepac

2021 is a perfect (for me) release date! My 2010 IS350 will likely need replacing by then or I can hand it down to my son who will be turning 16 then! C'Mon Lexus, don't let me down!

Carmaker1

No, I strongly disagree. 2021 is not a good release date nor is it the actual date, unless you live in a territory that gets staggered launches after JDM and USA. (Buying an XE40 6-9 months in, is not a bad idea, as it will not be Job #1 anymore.

Based on that Australian Performance Drive article and information previously posted here by Carmaker1, the 4th-gen Lexus IS (program code 400A) goes into production on July 2020 for a 2021 model year launch in the 4th quarter of the 2020 calendar year in major markets such as Japan, North America and Europe.

joepac

2021 is a perfect (for me) release date! My 2010 IS350 will likely need replacing by then or I can hand it down to my son who will be turning 16 then! C'Mon Lexus, don't let me down!

Carmaker1

No, I strongly disagree. 2021 is not a good release date nor is it the actual date, unless you live in a territory that gets staggered launches after JDM and USA. (Buying an XE40 6-9 months in, is not a bad idea, as it will not be Job #1 anymore.

Based on that Australian Performance Drive article and information previously posted here by Carmaker1, the 4th-gen Lexus IS (program code 400A) goes into production on July 2020 for a 2021 model year launch in the 4th quarter of the 2020 calendar year in major markets such as Japan, North America and Europe.