Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan to be Offered with BMW Inline-Six Turbo Engine?

They better not detune the TT V6 for the IS.

They better not detune the TT V6 for the IS.

CT2IS

No way Lexus is keeping the current 8AR-FTS and current V6 for the 4IS. These engines are extremely underwhelming even as of 2016. The 4IS would fall flat on its face at launch.

My take is Lexus will launch with a new redesigned turbo 4 (or at least HIGHLY revised--there's some strong deliberate de-tuning in the current one) and a scaled down/detuned TT V6 (probably through software) from the LS to push out around 330 hp.

The 4IS will have to lose at least 150-200 lbs to be successful.

Almost everyone else has a turbo 6 cylinder powerplant...hell, even Kia has one. I'll admit to test driving one of those (GT2 AWD, aka 'Limited' in Canada) and after I extricated myself from the soft nappa leather seats, I could not believe that I had just finished test driving a Kia with a sudden urge to buy one right there and then. The 3.3L TTV6 puts out a lot of power, combine it with the HTRAC system (basically BMW xDrive) and you're in a Kia that can outgun or match any Lexus vehicle in acceleration and speed...save for the LFA, of course.

I'm still holding out for the 4th gen IS anyway because I know that Toyota/Lexus makes a superior product, but if Lexus drops the ball and recycles the NA V6, I'll be looking away from the IS line.

carguy420

They better not detune the TT V6 for the IS.

It'll be interesting to see what Lexus does, since the C43 is getting 385hp and the Q50 RS is already pushing 400hp. Just price it in line with the 340i / S4 / C43 ($56k - $58k CAD) and I'll be happy.

As a side note... I think @Carmaker1 was supposed to have commented on this thread with more info on the 4IS, but it looks like he was taken away by the Lexus police.

CT2IS

No way Lexus is keeping the current 8AR-FTS and current V6 for the 4IS. These engines are extremely underwhelming even as of 2016. The 4IS would fall flat on its face at launch.

My take is Lexus will launch with a new redesigned turbo 4 (or at least HIGHLY revised--there's some strong deliberate de-tuning in the current one) and a scaled down/detuned TT V6 (probably through software) from the LS to push out around 330 hp.

The 4IS will have to lose at least 150-200 lbs to be successful.

Almost everyone else has a turbo 6 cylinder powerplant...hell, even Kia has one. I'll admit to test driving one of those (GT2 AWD, aka 'Limited' in Canada) and after I extricated myself from the soft nappa leather seats, I could not believe that I had just finished test driving a Kia with a sudden urge to buy one right there and then. The 3.3L TTV6 puts out a lot of power, combine it with the HTRAC system (basically BMW xDrive) and you're in a Kia that can outgun or match any Lexus vehicle in acceleration and speed...save for the LFA, of course.

I'm still holding out for the 4th gen IS anyway because I know that Toyota/Lexus makes a superior product, but if Lexus drops the ball and recycles the NA V6, I'll be looking away from the IS line.

carguy420

They better not detune the TT V6 for the IS.

It'll be interesting to see what Lexus does, since the C43 is getting 385hp and the Q50 RS is already pushing 400hp. Just price it in line with the 340i / S4 / C43 ($56k - $58k CAD) and I'll be happy.

As a side note... I think @Carmaker1 was supposed to have commented on this thread with more info on the 4IS, but it looks like he was taken away by the Lexus police.

CT2IS

No way Lexus is keeping the current 8AR-FTS and current V6 for the 4IS. These engines are extremely underwhelming even as of 2016. The 4IS would fall flat on its face at launch.

My take is Lexus will launch with a new redesigned turbo 4 (or at least HIGHLY revised--there's some strong deliberate de-tuning in the current one) and a scaled down/detuned TT V6 (probably through software) from the LS to push out around 330 hp.

The 4IS will have to lose at least 150-200 lbs to be successful.

Yes - in terms for car enthusiasts - it will fall flat on its face. But in terms of the "bean-counters" and Toyota corporate - it'll make 100% sense to recycle the engine. And 100% I hope they don't either but the business-perspective side of me know they will.

Why do I think they will recycle the engine?
1) Firstly - Toyota is slow as hell in terms of changing things up. Evidence of this is the IS250/IS350 engine from the 2G IS made it into the 3G IS. That shows Toyota has no problem with recycling engines.
2) The 8AR was first introduced in 2015 and the 2GR-FKS was also introduced in 2015. That's still "fairly" new. Toyota will want to max the use of these engines before changing them.
3) Price - probably. A TTV6 Lexus IS350 might increase the cost of the vehicle too much for what it is. I think they'll run the TTV6 in the IS-F before the regular IS gets it.

The Lexus IS will be successful regardless. The 2014 Lexus IS sold the same nearly the same amount of cars as the 2006 Lexus IS - and Lexus recycled the engines for the 2014 model year. In perspective - the engines were about 8 years old and still sold. This is why I think Toyota might just project a "IDC attitude" and just recycle it.

carguy420

They better not detune the TT V6 for the IS.

The issue here is - they have to detune the engine. If they keep the same engine specs from the LS, it'll be a 400+HP IS. That might push the starting price of a 400HP IS to over 50K - with options that would probably hit 60K. That makes the car 4K or less away from the start price of a RC-F and they still need to leave room for a IS-F slot. This is why I think the IS-F might return in the 4G with the TTV6.

CT2IS

No way Lexus is keeping the current 8AR-FTS and current V6 for the 4IS. These engines are extremely underwhelming even as of 2016. The 4IS would fall flat on its face at launch.

My take is Lexus will launch with a new redesigned turbo 4 (or at least HIGHLY revised--there's some strong deliberate de-tuning in the current one) and a scaled down/detuned TT V6 (probably through software) from the LS to push out around 330 hp.

The 4IS will have to lose at least 150-200 lbs to be successful.

Yes - in terms for car enthusiasts - it will fall flat on its face. But in terms of the "bean-counters" and Toyota corporate - it'll make 100% sense to recycle the engine. And 100% I hope they don't either but the business-perspective side of me know they will.

Why do I think they will recycle the engine?
1) Firstly - Toyota is slow as hell in terms of changing things up. Evidence of this is the IS250/IS350 engine from the 2G IS made it into the 3G IS. That shows Toyota has no problem with recycling engines.
2) The 8AR was first introduced in 2015 and the 2GR-FKS was also introduced in 2015. That's still "fairly" new. Toyota will want to max the use of these engines before changing them.
3) Price - probably. A TTV6 Lexus IS350 might increase the cost of the vehicle too much for what it is. I think they'll run the TTV6 in the IS-F before the regular IS gets it.

The Lexus IS will be successful regardless. The 2014 Lexus IS sold the same nearly the same amount of cars as the 2006 Lexus IS - and Lexus recycled the engines for the 2014 model year. In perspective - the engines were about 8 years old and still sold. This is why I think Toyota might just project a "IDC attitude" and just recycle it.

carguy420

They better not detune the TT V6 for the IS.

The issue here is - they have to detune the engine. If they keep the same engine specs from the LS, it'll be a 400+HP IS. That might push the starting price of a 400HP IS to over 50K - with options that would probably hit 60K. That makes the car 4K or less away from the start price of a RC-F and they still need to leave room for a IS-F slot. This is why I think the IS-F might return in the 4G with the TTV6.

CT2IS

No way Lexus is keeping the current 8AR-FTS and current V6 for the 4IS. These engines are extremely underwhelming even as of 2016. The 4IS would fall flat on its face at launch.

My take is Lexus will launch with a new redesigned turbo 4 (or at least HIGHLY revised--there's some strong deliberate de-tuning in the current one) and a scaled down/detuned TT V6 (probably through software) from the LS to push out around 330 hp.

The 4IS will have to lose at least 150-200 lbs to be successful.

8AR-FTS with new transmission and revisions might fit GA well... i dont think it or GR are going anywhere as base engines.

As to the weight, who knows... i doubt it will be significant loss if any.

CT2IS

No way Lexus is keeping the current 8AR-FTS and current V6 for the 4IS. These engines are extremely underwhelming even as of 2016. The 4IS would fall flat on its face at launch.

My take is Lexus will launch with a new redesigned turbo 4 (or at least HIGHLY revised--there's some strong deliberate de-tuning in the current one) and a scaled down/detuned TT V6 (probably through software) from the LS to push out around 330 hp.

The 4IS will have to lose at least 150-200 lbs to be successful.

8AR-FTS with new transmission and revisions might fit GA well... i dont think it or GR are going anywhere as base engines.

As to the weight, who knows... i doubt it will be significant loss if any.

GA-L has been a pretty heavy platform in the case of LC and LS... I wouldn't expect it to shave much off IS. Hopefully they can have the car remain under 4k lbs.

GA-L has been a pretty heavy platform in the case of LC and LS... I wouldn't expect it to shave much off IS. Hopefully they can have the car remain under 4k lbs.

Gecko

GA-L has been a pretty heavy platform in the case of LC and LS... I wouldn't expect it to shave much off IS. Hopefully they can have the car remain under 4k lbs.

4k lbs is too heavy to compete in this segment. The new 330i weights just below 3600 lbs.
A smaller platform derived from GA-L is needed.

Gecko

GA-L has been a pretty heavy platform in the case of LC and LS... I wouldn't expect it to shave much off IS. Hopefully they can have the car remain under 4k lbs.

4k lbs is too heavy to compete in this segment. The new 330i weights just below 3600 lbs.
A smaller platform derived from GA-L is needed.

sl0519

4k lbs is too heavy to compete in this segment. The new 330i weights just below 3600 lbs.
A smaller platform derived from GA-L is needed.

What about GA-N?

sl0519

4k lbs is too heavy to compete in this segment. The new 330i weights just below 3600 lbs.
A smaller platform derived from GA-L is needed.

What about GA-N?

If I recall correctly, LC wheelbase is almost identical to the current IS. The V8 would be theoretically heavier than an I4 or V6, but with all of the focus on rigidity and safety, it may be true that GA-L is just a fairly heavy platform... at least in the versions we've seen so far.

LC is generally around 4,300lbs I think? IS would be 2 more doors, probably less sound deadening, less premium materials, no V8. It won't surprise me to see the IS around 3,900-4k lbs.

If I recall correctly, LC wheelbase is almost identical to the current IS. The V8 would be theoretically heavier than an I4 or V6, but with all of the focus on rigidity and safety, it may be true that GA-L is just a fairly heavy platform... at least in the versions we've seen so far.

LC is generally around 4,300lbs I think? IS would be 2 more doors, probably less sound deadening, less premium materials, no V8. It won't surprise me to see the IS around 3,900-4k lbs.

spwolf

8AR-FTS with new transmission and revisions might fit GA well... i dont think it or GR are going anywhere as base engines.

As to the weight, who knows... i doubt it will be significant loss if any.

I agree with this. Revisions might happen but overall - the 8AR and 2GR are going to stay.

I think people complaining (especially the people at ClubLexus) about the power within the 8AR Lexus IS300 don't really understand the point of the Lexus IS300.
The Lexus IS300 has always been a competitor to the Infiniti Q50 2.0T, BMW 320i, and the Audi A4 FWD Ultra. Its pretty much the "cheaper" entry-level model to their RWD luxury sedan. The Lexus IS300, within that competition, is the better car out of all of them. It doesn't need a power upgrade nor much. It just need to relatively stay in cheaper end in terms of price.
If Toyota up the power of the Lexus IS300 too much, it'll push the vehicle into 330i/Audi A4 Quattro competition, which is where the Lexus IS350 competes.
Toyota needs to keep the Lexus IS300 low on power to stay the entry-level model - especially since - within the Lexus IS line - the Lexus IS300 is their money maker for the car.

Secondly - the Lexus IS350 - competes with the 330i, Audi A4 Quattro, Infiniti Q50 Silver Sport and the C300. I do find it odd people keep comparing the Lexus IS350 to cars like the S4, 340i, Q50 Red Sport and C43 AMG. The Lexus IS350 doesn't compete there. Within the competition the Lexus IS350 competes in currently, its the second fastest car. Its still relatively a competitive engine.

This is why I think - the TTV6 will either come to the Lexus IS in two ways. Either a new Lexus "IS400" or the return of the "IS-F". Giving the fact that Toyota is a bunch of bean-counters, they'll probably produce a Lexus IS-F before a Lexus IS400. I think this because people who buy a Lexus IS tends to buy the Lexus IS300 anyways. The Lexus IS400, much like the M340i, are a niche sale. They'll probably pull more IS-F sales than IS400 sales.

sl0519

4k lbs is too heavy to compete in this segment. The new 330i weights just below 3600 lbs.
A smaller platform derived from GA-L is needed.

Just because the 330i weighs below 3.6 pounds doesn't mean the Lexus IS will. Didn't Lexus spokesperson say somewhere before they are planning to stop following the Germans and doing their own thing?
4K pounds is not too heavy to compete in the segment. The Infiniti Q50 is almost 4K pounds.

spwolf

8AR-FTS with new transmission and revisions might fit GA well... i dont think it or GR are going anywhere as base engines.

As to the weight, who knows... i doubt it will be significant loss if any.

I agree with this. Revisions might happen but overall - the 8AR and 2GR are going to stay.

I think people complaining (especially the people at ClubLexus) about the power within the 8AR Lexus IS300 don't really understand the point of the Lexus IS300.
The Lexus IS300 has always been a competitor to the Infiniti Q50 2.0T, BMW 320i, and the Audi A4 FWD Ultra. Its pretty much the "cheaper" entry-level model to their RWD luxury sedan. The Lexus IS300, within that competition, is the better car out of all of them. It doesn't need a power upgrade nor much. It just need to relatively stay in cheaper end in terms of price.
If Toyota up the power of the Lexus IS300 too much, it'll push the vehicle into 330i/Audi A4 Quattro competition, which is where the Lexus IS350 competes.
Toyota needs to keep the Lexus IS300 low on power to stay the entry-level model - especially since - within the Lexus IS line - the Lexus IS300 is their money maker for the car.

Secondly - the Lexus IS350 - competes with the 330i, Audi A4 Quattro, Infiniti Q50 Silver Sport and the C300. I do find it odd people keep comparing the Lexus IS350 to cars like the S4, 340i, Q50 Red Sport and C43 AMG. The Lexus IS350 doesn't compete there. Within the competition the Lexus IS350 competes in currently, its the second fastest car. Its still relatively a competitive engine.

This is why I think - the TTV6 will either come to the Lexus IS in two ways. Either a new Lexus "IS400" or the return of the "IS-F". Giving the fact that Toyota is a bunch of bean-counters, they'll probably produce a Lexus IS-F before a Lexus IS400. I think this because people who buy a Lexus IS tends to buy the Lexus IS300 anyways. The Lexus IS400, much like the M340i, are a niche sale. They'll probably pull more IS-F sales than IS400 sales.

sl0519

4k lbs is too heavy to compete in this segment. The new 330i weights just below 3600 lbs.
A smaller platform derived from GA-L is needed.

Just because the 330i weighs below 3.6 pounds doesn't mean the Lexus IS will. Didn't Lexus spokesperson say somewhere before they are planning to stop following the Germans and doing their own thing?
4K pounds is not too heavy to compete in the segment. The Infiniti Q50 is almost 4K pounds.

The IS, even sharing LC's length and wheelbase, will be considerably lighter because a) it's narrower b) it's going to use much lighter powertrain c) there won't be as much structural strengthening in the chassis d) there won't be as much sound insulation. It doesn't make sense to use a luxury GT's weight to estimate the weight of a considerably cheaper car.

We can instead use the Crown as a reference to estimate the weight of the 4IS. The 2.0T RWD weighs around 1,700kg (3,750lbs), or 100kg heavier than the previous generation (previous gen is smaller, and doesn't have TSS). The 2.5 hybrid RWD weighs around 1,750kg (3,850lbs), and the heaviest 3.5 multistage weighs 1,870kg (4,100lbs). I expect the 4IS, if the size is similar to the Mark X, to be roughly 50kg lighter than the Crown using the same powertrian. So the IS300 RWD will be around 1,650kg which is slightly heavier than the current generation. The multistage will be the only RWD model approaching 4,000lbs. Only AWD or PHV variants will surpass 4,000.

To lose 100kg the 4IS will have to use all-aluminum construction, which is obviously something Lexus will avoid. I think 1,650kg is about the optimum weight for a mid-size sedan with a good balance of ride quality and agility.

Also, a 2.0T, whether a Dynamic Force motor or the old 8AR, is definitely here to stay. The output will very likely stay the same at 180kW/245hp, while improvements will mostly be in efficiency, NVH, and responsiveness. The IS300 as is has a lot of low hanging fruits, as the 8AR/8AT combo is not optimally tuned for performance. I'm not surprised they could get at least 0.5s 0-100 while maintaining the output; their competitors are about that much faster with similar power-to-weight ratio.

The IS, even sharing LC's length and wheelbase, will be considerably lighter because a) it's narrower b) it's going to use much lighter powertrain c) there won't be as much structural strengthening in the chassis d) there won't be as much sound insulation. It doesn't make sense to use a luxury GT's weight to estimate the weight of a considerably cheaper car.

We can instead use the Crown as a reference to estimate the weight of the 4IS. The 2.0T RWD weighs around 1,700kg (3,750lbs), or 100kg heavier than the previous generation (previous gen is smaller, and doesn't have TSS). The 2.5 hybrid RWD weighs around 1,750kg (3,850lbs), and the heaviest 3.5 multistage weighs 1,870kg (4,100lbs). I expect the 4IS, if the size is similar to the Mark X, to be roughly 50kg lighter than the Crown using the same powertrian. So the IS300 RWD will be around 1,650kg which is slightly heavier than the current generation. The multistage will be the only RWD model approaching 4,000lbs. Only AWD or PHV variants will surpass 4,000.

To lose 100kg the 4IS will have to use all-aluminum construction, which is obviously something Lexus will avoid. I think 1,650kg is about the optimum weight for a mid-size sedan with a good balance of ride quality and agility.

Also, a 2.0T, whether a Dynamic Force motor or the old 8AR, is definitely here to stay. The output will very likely stay the same at 180kW/245hp, while improvements will mostly be in efficiency, NVH, and responsiveness. The IS300 as is has a lot of low hanging fruits, as the 8AR/8AT combo is not optimally tuned for performance. I'm not surprised they could get at least 0.5s 0-100 while maintaining the output; their competitors are about that much faster with similar power-to-weight ratio.

FYI, anytime cars share platforms, weight goes up and the smaller cars get hurt the most. Also the next IS will surely add more luxury and that is never light.

I don't think the Lexus owner cares one bit about weight and most cars weigh a ton now anyway. What will matter is looks, price, interior and more engine options.

The elephant in the room is the Tesla Model 3 currently selling like mad and people are so enthused about the car its crazy. Lexus needs to offer hybrids with the IS next generation and some damn good ones as well as an electric option.

FYI, anytime cars share platforms, weight goes up and the smaller cars get hurt the most. Also the next IS will surely add more luxury and that is never light.

I don't think the Lexus owner cares one bit about weight and most cars weigh a ton now anyway. What will matter is looks, price, interior and more engine options.

The elephant in the room is the Tesla Model 3 currently selling like mad and people are so enthused about the car its crazy. Lexus needs to offer hybrids with the IS next generation and some damn good ones as well as an electric option.

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Craig Smith

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I assume this is only an imagination by the editor right?

Craig Smith

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I assume this is only an imagination by the editor right?

I really like that render... an evolution of 3IS with some LS/LC mixed in. Who is it from? If it's from someone like Best Car, I say that's probably pretty accurate since they were 95% right with their RX, LS and ES renders.

I really like that render... an evolution of 3IS with some LS/LC mixed in. Who is it from? If it's from someone like Best Car, I say that's probably pretty accurate since they were 95% right with their RX, LS and ES renders.