Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan to be Offered with BMW Inline-Six Turbo Engine?

Posted by Kevin on February 18th, 2019

Best Car Magazine in Japan is reporting that the next-generation Lexus IS sedan will be offered with the same BMW Inline-6 turbo engine that powers the all-new Toyota Supra.

The I6 engine, which is rated at 335 horsepower and 365 lb-ft of torque in the Supra, would be one of four engines for the Lexus sedan — a 2.0L turbo, 2.4L turbo, and 2.5L hybrid engine would also be available based on region.

Lexus IS Next-Generation Rear

Best Car also reports that the IS is unlikely to change in size, and will weigh approximately 3,395 lbs. For referenece, the current IS tips the scales at 3,737 lbs.

(Finally, the magazine reiterates the rumor that a next-generation IS F sedan will be resurrected with the twin-turbo V6 engine from the LS flagship.)

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Comments
F1 Silver Arrows
Did you take a look at your tests again? Look at the difference in weight. I mentioned that the 4.6 second range is possible. Remember when I said......

It all matters down to specification, conditions of the weather (though this should affect turbocharged cars less than naturally aspirated variants), equipment to measure, etc.
The LS tested from C&D is 270 lbs heavier than Lexus' car that they used for the 0-60 times. While, the BMW is just a smidgen heavier, accounting for the same (or even faster 0-60 time). Well duh, the weight obviously ruins everything.

This is an example where I would defend Lexus because they won't BS anybody. That claim is correct. People have gotten much closer to the claimed time with heavier weight too. Now imagine the car being 270 lbs lighter......

Also, remember that if the BMW were to be equipped as heavily as the Lexus, the LS500 would literally walk away from it like it was nothing, and you can say goodbye to the 600 lbs deficit in weight and the measly 0.2 second 0-60 time. A better driver behind the wheel could easily mitigate that. 320 hp (even if its underrated), will not be enough to go toe-to-toe with the LS if they had the same curb weight. 96 horsepower difference is no joke.

Think again. Your argument is a moot point. You even displayed the curb weight yourself. *sigh*
F1 Silver Arrows
Did you take a look at your tests again? Look at the difference in weight. I mentioned that the 4.6 second range is possible. Remember when I said......

It all matters down to specification, conditions of the weather (though this should affect turbocharged cars less than naturally aspirated variants), equipment to measure, etc.
The LS tested from C&D is 270 lbs heavier than Lexus' car that they used for the 0-60 times. While, the BMW is just a smidgen heavier, accounting for the same (or even faster 0-60 time). Well duh, the weight obviously ruins everything.

This is an example where I would defend Lexus because they won't BS anybody. That claim is correct. People have gotten much closer to the claimed time with heavier weight too. Now imagine the car being 270 lbs lighter......

Also, remember that if the BMW were to be equipped as heavily as the Lexus, the LS500 would literally walk away from it like it was nothing, and you can say goodbye to the 600 lbs deficit in weight and the measly 0.2 second 0-60 time. A better driver behind the wheel could easily mitigate that. 320 hp (even if its underrated), will not be enough to go toe-to-toe with the LS if they had the same curb weight. 96 horsepower difference is no joke.

Think again. Your argument is a moot point. You even displayed the curb weight yourself. *sigh*
Gecko
F1 Silver Arrows
Did you take a look at your tests again? Look at the difference in weight. I mentioned that the 4.6 second range is possible. Remember when I said......

The LS tested from C&D is 270 lbs heavier than Lexus' car that they used for the 0-60 times. While, the BMW is just a smidgen heavier, accounting for the same (or even faster 0-60 time). Well duh, the weight obviously ruins everything.

This is an example where I would defend Lexus because they won't BS anybody. That claim is correct. People have gotten much closer to the claimed time with heavier weight too. Now imagine the car being 270 lbs lighter......

Also, remember that if the BMW were to be equipped as heavily as the Lexus, the LS500 would literally walk away from it like it was nothing, and you can say goodbye to the 600 lbs deficit in weight and the measly 0.2 second 0-60 time. A better driver behind the wheel could easily mitigate that. 320 hp (even if its underrated), will not be enough to go toe-to-toe with the LS if they had the same curb weight. 96 horsepower difference is no joke.

Think again. Your argument is a moot point. You even displayed the curb weight yourself. *sigh*
Have you ever seen a test where the LS or LC 500 met their quoted 0-60 times of 4.6 and 4.4 seconds? I haven't.

I don't think it really matters that much because the people who buy these cars aren't caring much about a .4 or 1 second variance 0-60, but the point is real and valid: Lexus has been very optimistic when quoting their performance times. When a single real-world instrumented test cannot match the manufacturer quoted times, that isn't weather, instrumentation or testing conditions... that's proof.
Gecko
F1 Silver Arrows
Did you take a look at your tests again? Look at the difference in weight. I mentioned that the 4.6 second range is possible. Remember when I said......

The LS tested from C&D is 270 lbs heavier than Lexus' car that they used for the 0-60 times. While, the BMW is just a smidgen heavier, accounting for the same (or even faster 0-60 time). Well duh, the weight obviously ruins everything.

This is an example where I would defend Lexus because they won't BS anybody. That claim is correct. People have gotten much closer to the claimed time with heavier weight too. Now imagine the car being 270 lbs lighter......

Also, remember that if the BMW were to be equipped as heavily as the Lexus, the LS500 would literally walk away from it like it was nothing, and you can say goodbye to the 600 lbs deficit in weight and the measly 0.2 second 0-60 time. A better driver behind the wheel could easily mitigate that. 320 hp (even if its underrated), will not be enough to go toe-to-toe with the LS if they had the same curb weight. 96 horsepower difference is no joke.

Think again. Your argument is a moot point. You even displayed the curb weight yourself. *sigh*
Have you ever seen a test where the LS or LC 500 met their quoted 0-60 times of 4.6 and 4.4 seconds? I haven't.

I don't think it really matters that much because the people who buy these cars aren't caring much about a .4 or 1 second variance 0-60, but the point is real and valid: Lexus has been very optimistic when quoting their performance times. When a single real-world instrumented test cannot match the manufacturer quoted times, that isn't weather, instrumentation or testing conditions... that's proof.
F1 Silver Arrows
Gecko
Have you ever seen a test where the LS or LC 500 met their quoted 0-60 times of 4.6 and 4.4 seconds? I haven't.

I don't think it really matters that much because the people who buy these cars aren't caring much about a .4 or 1 second variance 0-60, but the point is real and valid: Lexus has been very optimistic when quoting their performance times. When a single real-world instrumented test cannot match the manufacturer quoted times, that isn't weather, instrumentation or testing conditions... that's proof.
Yes. I have. There has been a couple of car reviewers on Youtube who claim it hit the 4.6 second time as well. It doesn't matter, you're right, but they're not lying. :)
F1 Silver Arrows
Gecko
Have you ever seen a test where the LS or LC 500 met their quoted 0-60 times of 4.6 and 4.4 seconds? I haven't.

I don't think it really matters that much because the people who buy these cars aren't caring much about a .4 or 1 second variance 0-60, but the point is real and valid: Lexus has been very optimistic when quoting their performance times. When a single real-world instrumented test cannot match the manufacturer quoted times, that isn't weather, instrumentation or testing conditions... that's proof.
Yes. I have. There has been a couple of car reviewers on Youtube who claim it hit the 4.6 second time as well. It doesn't matter, you're right, but they're not lying. :)
Gecko
F1 Silver Arrows
Yes. I have. There has been a couple of car reviewers on Youtube who claim it hit the 4.6 second time as well. It doesn't matter, you're right, but they're not lying. :)
Links to videos?
Gecko
F1 Silver Arrows
Yes. I have. There has been a couple of car reviewers on Youtube who claim it hit the 4.6 second time as well. It doesn't matter, you're right, but they're not lying. :)
Links to videos?
S
As I've said before BMW's straight line speed does not only come from under-rating the motor. Their expertise in drivetrain calibration is second to none. The engine, transmission, and control software work in such harmony that the car almost turn all available grip into useful acceleration. Their engines also hold a massive advantage over the competition in terms of turbo lag. All the 0.1s they shave off here and there accumulate into a notable advantage.

If you just look at the correlation between acceleration figures and power-to-weight ratio, Lexus is not lagging behind others: everyone lag behind BMW.
S
As I've said before BMW's straight line speed does not only come from under-rating the motor. Their expertise in drivetrain calibration is second to none. The engine, transmission, and control software work in such harmony that the car almost turn all available grip into useful acceleration. Their engines also hold a massive advantage over the competition in terms of turbo lag. All the 0.1s they shave off here and there accumulate into a notable advantage.

If you just look at the correlation between acceleration figures and power-to-weight ratio, Lexus is not lagging behind others: everyone lag behind BMW.
I
^ Sounds like with BEVs, that BMW advantage gets dwindled down significantly? :)

I wonder how reliable BMW BEVs are going to be. Heard from an acquaintance that his i3 is quite reliable.
I
^ Sounds like with BEVs, that BMW advantage gets dwindled down significantly? :)

I wonder how reliable BMW BEVs are going to be. Heard from an acquaintance that his i3 is quite reliable.
S
^Their future BEV battery supplier is CATL from China which builds majority of the BEV packs in the world. Their reliability records so far aren't amazing but aren't bad either. The i3 uses more expensive A123 packs which are more proven.
S
^Their future BEV battery supplier is CATL from China which builds majority of the BEV packs in the world. Their reliability records so far aren't amazing but aren't bad either. The i3 uses more expensive A123 packs which are more proven.
G
F1 Silver Arrows
416 horsepower in an IS should be able to walk away with no effort against competitors like the M340i, C43 AMG, XE35t, ATS V-Sport, S4. Even if they try to add more power and torque, it won't be able to match the engineering design of the 4IS. The engine, transmission, chassis (which includes steering, suspension, stiffness, etc.) of the new Lexus vehicles have gotten stellar reviews worldwide and are proof that it will be untouchable for the foreseeable future. You guys are also forgetting a major point. Lexus' (except for the RC) are much lighter vehicles than the competition. With the new TNGA platform under the new IS, they will be able to shred unnecessary weight while also adding crucial updates. Even if they make the 4IS close to the size of the current 4GS, with the materials that they are using for weight reduction (although expensive), they will still be ahead of the competition; just like the 2IS was.

I just hope it goes the way I mentioned......
Even if the IS doesn't walk away from the aforementioned competition and is at best on par - or at worst 0.1 - 0.3s slower - it still won't matter very much to me because I'm looking for the complete package. Don't get me wrong, every car maker has their forte. For example, the S4's AWD system is really good, BMW has their turbo 6 cylinder engines dialed in and painstakingly tuned to work hand-in-hand with the rest of the drivetrain, Infiniti has massive incentives and discounts (lol).

However, the one forte that none of the above can ever hope to snatch from Lexus is reliability, and this goes for the unmentionables like the Q50, TLX and G70. I know the term 'reliability' gets peppered around here on LE and on other Lexus and Toyota forums, but it's the truth. Toyota is king of the Toyota Production System, and their party trick is making cars that don't sit in the shop every couple of months. Given proper maintenance, I think that a car should be able to do car things without fail. If a car is being repaired because of a busted water pump or because of broken timing chain tensioners (these things are NOT normal wear and tear items), then it is no longer a car but a money pit. I'm going to be owning my next car for at least 8 - 10 years or more and I want to do it right and not impulsively end up with something that looks great and drives amazing for the warranty period but suddenly explode with all sorts of problems after the warranty is done.

I read an article about the development of the new Supra, and Tetsuya Tada said that he was shocked at how much money BMW was spending on design alone. On the flip side, German engineers were shocked at how Toyota engineers would take apart components down to the last bolt and fastener, test every piece then ship thousands of parts back to Japan for further analysis. This was normal for Toyota, and clearly abnormal for BMW...which speaks volumes about BMW's quality. The actual quote is below:

The Fundamental Differences

We've learned a lot from BMW. The task list of each step in car making they expended on R&D was impressive. I almost started to think if they had an infinite budget funding to the task of design. Each step just much more extensive (and expensive) than what we would normally expend in different areas. Just astonishing. I started to doubt myself if this whole thing can be accomplished in a manner that can profit as a product sold as a Toyota. But then as development proceeded into next phases I was comforted when I saw there were later stages where Toyota would be the exact opposite, and BMW couldn't believe how extensive some of our quality and efficiency studies were as parts came into shape one by one. We would take every bit down to a fastener or rivet, and put it through our stringent quality control and a dozen other testing, we'd ship thousands of parts back to Japan for analysis. That is normal to us. Each piece we test at our level, they were now the ones surprised.​
G
F1 Silver Arrows
416 horsepower in an IS should be able to walk away with no effort against competitors like the M340i, C43 AMG, XE35t, ATS V-Sport, S4. Even if they try to add more power and torque, it won't be able to match the engineering design of the 4IS. The engine, transmission, chassis (which includes steering, suspension, stiffness, etc.) of the new Lexus vehicles have gotten stellar reviews worldwide and are proof that it will be untouchable for the foreseeable future. You guys are also forgetting a major point. Lexus' (except for the RC) are much lighter vehicles than the competition. With the new TNGA platform under the new IS, they will be able to shred unnecessary weight while also adding crucial updates. Even if they make the 4IS close to the size of the current 4GS, with the materials that they are using for weight reduction (although expensive), they will still be ahead of the competition; just like the 2IS was.

I just hope it goes the way I mentioned......
Even if the IS doesn't walk away from the aforementioned competition and is at best on par - or at worst 0.1 - 0.3s slower - it still won't matter very much to me because I'm looking for the complete package. Don't get me wrong, every car maker has their forte. For example, the S4's AWD system is really good, BMW has their turbo 6 cylinder engines dialed in and painstakingly tuned to work hand-in-hand with the rest of the drivetrain, Infiniti has massive incentives and discounts (lol).

However, the one forte that none of the above can ever hope to snatch from Lexus is reliability, and this goes for the unmentionables like the Q50, TLX and G70. I know the term 'reliability' gets peppered around here on LE and on other Lexus and Toyota forums, but it's the truth. Toyota is king of the Toyota Production System, and their party trick is making cars that don't sit in the shop every couple of months. Given proper maintenance, I think that a car should be able to do car things without fail. If a car is being repaired because of a busted water pump or because of broken timing chain tensioners (these things are NOT normal wear and tear items), then it is no longer a car but a money pit. I'm going to be owning my next car for at least 8 - 10 years or more and I want to do it right and not impulsively end up with something that looks great and drives amazing for the warranty period but suddenly explode with all sorts of problems after the warranty is done.

I read an article about the development of the new Supra, and Tetsuya Tada said that he was shocked at how much money BMW was spending on design alone. On the flip side, German engineers were shocked at how Toyota engineers would take apart components down to the last bolt and fastener, test every piece then ship thousands of parts back to Japan for further analysis. This was normal for Toyota, and clearly abnormal for BMW...which speaks volumes about BMW's quality. The actual quote is below:

The Fundamental Differences

We've learned a lot from BMW. The task list of each step in car making they expended on R&D was impressive. I almost started to think if they had an infinite budget funding to the task of design. Each step just much more extensive (and expensive) than what we would normally expend in different areas. Just astonishing. I started to doubt myself if this whole thing can be accomplished in a manner that can profit as a product sold as a Toyota. But then as development proceeded into next phases I was comforted when I saw there were later stages where Toyota would be the exact opposite, and BMW couldn't believe how extensive some of our quality and efficiency studies were as parts came into shape one by one. We would take every bit down to a fastener or rivet, and put it through our stringent quality control and a dozen other testing, we'd ship thousands of parts back to Japan for analysis. That is normal to us. Each piece we test at our level, they were now the ones surprised.​
Ian Schmidt
Gecko
Lots of different factors... could be transmission mapping, weight of the LS, etc. As you note, a dyno would be a great indicator of what this engine is really putting down but I haven't found one yet. Have you?
Nope, I'm curious too, which is why I'd like to see one. Unfortunately none of the reviewers have obliged.
Ian Schmidt
Gecko
Lots of different factors... could be transmission mapping, weight of the LS, etc. As you note, a dyno would be a great indicator of what this engine is really putting down but I haven't found one yet. Have you?
Nope, I'm curious too, which is why I'd like to see one. Unfortunately none of the reviewers have obliged.
Ian Schmidt
ssun30
As I've said before BMW's straight line speed does not only come from under-rating the motor. Their expertise in drivetrain calibration is second to none. The engine, transmission, and control software work in such harmony that the car almost turn all available grip into useful acceleration.
That also has the downside that everything's basically running on the ragged edge all the time. I saw a YouTube video recently where they picked up a recent 7 series off of CoPart (salvage auction) hoping to get it running and there were pieces of camshaft sticking through the valve covers, lifters fused to the deck, just crazy carnage. They would've needed at minimum a completely new top end for the engine, so they were gonna part it out instead.
Ian Schmidt
ssun30
As I've said before BMW's straight line speed does not only come from under-rating the motor. Their expertise in drivetrain calibration is second to none. The engine, transmission, and control software work in such harmony that the car almost turn all available grip into useful acceleration.
That also has the downside that everything's basically running on the ragged edge all the time. I saw a YouTube video recently where they picked up a recent 7 series off of CoPart (salvage auction) hoping to get it running and there were pieces of camshaft sticking through the valve covers, lifters fused to the deck, just crazy carnage. They would've needed at minimum a completely new top end for the engine, so they were gonna part it out instead.
S
Gecko
I don't think it really matters that much because the people who buy these cars aren't caring much about a .4 or 1 second variance 0-60
I am sure they care about speed in the end.

It could be easy to say that BMW owners dont matter how they drive anymore since BMW's have not been sportiest cars for quite a while now... even that 740i, while much lighter, cant outhandle LS500. But I am sure it is not true.
S
Gecko
I don't think it really matters that much because the people who buy these cars aren't caring much about a .4 or 1 second variance 0-60
I am sure they care about speed in the end.

It could be easy to say that BMW owners dont matter how they drive anymore since BMW's have not been sportiest cars for quite a while now... even that 740i, while much lighter, cant outhandle LS500. But I am sure it is not true.
G
spwolf
I am sure they care about speed in the end.

It could be easy to say that BMW owners dont matter how they drive anymore since BMW's have not been sportiest cars for quite a while now... even that 740i, while much lighter, cant outhandle LS500. But I am sure it is not true.
Speed definitely matters...otherwise none of us here would care if the 2GR-FKS makes a return in the 4IS.
G
spwolf
I am sure they care about speed in the end.

It could be easy to say that BMW owners dont matter how they drive anymore since BMW's have not been sportiest cars for quite a while now... even that 740i, while much lighter, cant outhandle LS500. But I am sure it is not true.
Speed definitely matters...otherwise none of us here would care if the 2GR-FKS makes a return in the 4IS.
Ian Schmidt
spwolf
I am sure they care about speed in the end.

It could be easy to say that BMW owners dont matter how they drive anymore since BMW's have not been sportiest cars for quite a while now... even that 740i, while much lighter, cant outhandle LS500. But I am sure it is not true.
Right, but caring about speed and caring about the overall driving experience are different things. In general, for top-class cars like the LS and LC, they're what used to be called "fast enough", and great handling is a differentiator.

For the IS, speed does matter.
Ian Schmidt
spwolf
I am sure they care about speed in the end.

It could be easy to say that BMW owners dont matter how they drive anymore since BMW's have not been sportiest cars for quite a while now... even that 740i, while much lighter, cant outhandle LS500. But I am sure it is not true.
Right, but caring about speed and caring about the overall driving experience are different things. In general, for top-class cars like the LS and LC, they're what used to be called "fast enough", and great handling is a differentiator.

For the IS, speed does matter.
S
I just have this thought today that the 500h drivetrain can make a really fast IS. The LS and LC hybrids really surprise us with their straightline speed considering the power-to-weight ratio. It might even be powerful enough that a IS500h might be traction-limited.

I know it's not the best idea though as the multi-stage does not belong on a $50k vehicle...
S
I just have this thought today that the 500h drivetrain can make a really fast IS. The LS and LC hybrids really surprise us with their straightline speed considering the power-to-weight ratio. It might even be powerful enough that a IS500h might be traction-limited.

I know it's not the best idea though as the multi-stage does not belong on a $50k vehicle...
S
ssun30
I just have this thought today that the 500h drivetrain can make a really fast IS. The LS and LC hybrids really surprise us with their straightline speed considering the power-to-weight ratio. It might even be powerful enough that a IS500h might be traction-limited.

I know it's not the best idea though as the multi-stage does not belong on a $50k vehicle...
there are rumors about IS500h being available, and also rumors that smaller powertrains will get multi-stage.
S
ssun30
I just have this thought today that the 500h drivetrain can make a really fast IS. The LS and LC hybrids really surprise us with their straightline speed considering the power-to-weight ratio. It might even be powerful enough that a IS500h might be traction-limited.

I know it's not the best idea though as the multi-stage does not belong on a $50k vehicle...
there are rumors about IS500h being available, and also rumors that smaller powertrains will get multi-stage.

S