Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan to be Offered with BMW Inline-Six Turbo Engine?

Posted by Kevin on February 18th, 2019

Best Car Magazine in Japan is reporting that the next-generation Lexus IS sedan will be offered with the same BMW Inline-6 turbo engine that powers the all-new Toyota Supra.

The I6 engine, which is rated at 335 horsepower and 365 lb-ft of torque in the Supra, would be one of four engines for the Lexus sedan — a 2.0L turbo, 2.4L turbo, and 2.5L hybrid engine would also be available based on region.

Lexus IS Next-Generation Rear

Best Car also reports that the IS is unlikely to change in size, and will weigh approximately 3,395 lbs. For referenece, the current IS tips the scales at 3,737 lbs.

(Finally, the magazine reiterates the rumor that a next-generation IS F sedan will be resurrected with the twin-turbo V6 engine from the LS flagship.)

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Comments
Gecko
GNS
The Germans like to underrate their HP, claiming that it is to accurately reflect the available power under all situations.
Lexus should try something similar o_O
Gecko
GNS
The Germans like to underrate their HP, claiming that it is to accurately reflect the available power under all situations.
Lexus should try something similar o_O
Ian Schmidt
Before we bury it, do we have any real-world dyno results proving that the torque numbers on the V35A are off by nearly 50 foot-pounds as Gecko alleges?
Ian Schmidt
Before we bury it, do we have any real-world dyno results proving that the torque numbers on the V35A are off by nearly 50 foot-pounds as Gecko alleges?
Gecko
Ian Schmidt
Before we bury it, do we have any real-world dyno results proving that the torque numbers on the V35A are off by nearly 50 foot-pounds as Gecko alleges?
What?
Gecko
Ian Schmidt
Before we bury it, do we have any real-world dyno results proving that the torque numbers on the V35A are off by nearly 50 foot-pounds as Gecko alleges?
What?
Ian Schmidt
Gecko
what Lexus deems as 416hp will probably be competitive with everyone else who is around 370-385hp.
If we assume 370, that's nearly 50 HP off spec :) (I misread HP as torque initially).
Ian Schmidt
Gecko
what Lexus deems as 416hp will probably be competitive with everyone else who is around 370-385hp.
If we assume 370, that's nearly 50 HP off spec :) (I misread HP as torque initially).
Gecko
Ian Schmidt
If we assume 370, that's nearly 50 HP off spec :) (I misread HP as torque initially).
Lots of different factors... could be transmission mapping, weight of the LS, etc. As you note, a dyno would be a great indicator of what this engine is really putting down but I haven't found one yet. Have you?
Gecko
Ian Schmidt
If we assume 370, that's nearly 50 HP off spec :) (I misread HP as torque initially).
Lots of different factors... could be transmission mapping, weight of the LS, etc. As you note, a dyno would be a great indicator of what this engine is really putting down but I haven't found one yet. Have you?
F1 Silver Arrows
I also haven't seen an acceleration video of the LS500. I've seen the LS500H but I want to see how fast the TTV6 goes.
F1 Silver Arrows
I also haven't seen an acceleration video of the LS500. I've seen the LS500H but I want to see how fast the TTV6 goes.
S
Gecko
C43 is now up to 385hp and BMW has 355hp+ versions of their I6, and the list goes on. By the time Lexus introduces the IS, 400hp will be the norm for top end performance models. Furthermore, Lexus engines haven't exactly been meeting their manufacturer quoted performance numbers, so what Lexus deems as 416hp will probably be competitive with everyone else who is around 370-385hp.
i dont think IS500 would be priced the same as german "top end performance" model.

And are we really complaining that future IS500 has only 416hp? Thats silly.
S
Gecko
C43 is now up to 385hp and BMW has 355hp+ versions of their I6, and the list goes on. By the time Lexus introduces the IS, 400hp will be the norm for top end performance models. Furthermore, Lexus engines haven't exactly been meeting their manufacturer quoted performance numbers, so what Lexus deems as 416hp will probably be competitive with everyone else who is around 370-385hp.
i dont think IS500 would be priced the same as german "top end performance" model.

And are we really complaining that future IS500 has only 416hp? Thats silly.
S
ssun30
It's a standard longitudinal AWD system with a transaxle that creates a 50-50 split, all open diffs. At least that's true for the Crown Hybrid AWD. Not sure if the LS Hybrid AWD gets torsen or other devices allowing non-even/dynamic torque split.
new crown hybrid (300h) has torsen lsd:

It is full time 4WD which can demonstrate the high performance of 2.5L hybrid system in various running scenes and road conditions. With the use of the center-diff installed full-time 4WD, the power of the 2.5L dynamic force engine is completely transmitted to the road surface, further improving the unique response and smooth acceleration of the hybrid car. On the other hand, coupled with the synergistic effect with low center of gravity FR platform based on TNGA, excellent running stability has been realized. In addition, Tolsen ® LSD * 2, which has been made smaller and lighter, is adopted for transfer that distributes rich power to front and rear wheels . Normally, torque of front and rear wheels is distributed at 40:60, and torque is distributed instantaneously from 30:70 to 50:50 to front and rear wheels according to driving conditions. In any situation, it brings a natural and dynamic maneuvering sensation.
S
ssun30
It's a standard longitudinal AWD system with a transaxle that creates a 50-50 split, all open diffs. At least that's true for the Crown Hybrid AWD. Not sure if the LS Hybrid AWD gets torsen or other devices allowing non-even/dynamic torque split.
new crown hybrid (300h) has torsen lsd:

It is full time 4WD which can demonstrate the high performance of 2.5L hybrid system in various running scenes and road conditions. With the use of the center-diff installed full-time 4WD, the power of the 2.5L dynamic force engine is completely transmitted to the road surface, further improving the unique response and smooth acceleration of the hybrid car. On the other hand, coupled with the synergistic effect with low center of gravity FR platform based on TNGA, excellent running stability has been realized. In addition, Tolsen ® LSD * 2, which has been made smaller and lighter, is adopted for transfer that distributes rich power to front and rear wheels . Normally, torque of front and rear wheels is distributed at 40:60, and torque is distributed instantaneously from 30:70 to 50:50 to front and rear wheels according to driving conditions. In any situation, it brings a natural and dynamic maneuvering sensation.
F1 Silver Arrows
spwolf
i dont think IS500 would be priced the same as german "top end performance" model.

And are we really complaining that future IS500 has only 416hp? Thats silly.
My thoughts exactly. I don't know why people are accusing Lexus of overrating their cars. They are usually on point for performance measurements when it comes to ideal/close to ideal conditions. And that was when they were naturally aspirated engines. Now that they have turbochargers, they can make such claims and easily hit their claimed performance numbers, or even go significantly better than their claimed numbers (they've already been doing that for most of their performance oriented models already). I am discounting the turbocharged 4-cylinder in cars like the NX or RC, because that's a first attempt in a long time to make a turbocharged engine to get the best of both worlds for performance and fuel economy. I have full trust in them that they would make their goal.

As for the LS, the 4.6 second claim is probably legitimate. It all matters down to specification, conditions of the weather (though this should affect turbocharged cars less than naturally aspirated variants), equipment to measure, etc.

416 horsepower in an IS should be able to walk away with no effort against competitors like the M340i, C43 AMG, XE35t, ATS V-Sport, S4. Even if they try to add more power and torque, it won't be able to match the engineering design of the 4IS. The engine, transmission, chassis (which includes steering, suspension, stiffness, etc.) of the new Lexus vehicles have gotten stellar reviews worldwide and are proof that it will be untouchable for the foreseeable future. You guys are also forgetting a major point. Lexus' (except for the RC) are much lighter vehicles than the competition. With the new TNGA platform under the new IS, they will be able to shred unnecessary weight while also adding crucial updates. Even if they make the 4IS close to the size of the current 4GS, with the materials that they are using for weight reduction (although expensive), they will still be ahead of the competition; just like the 2IS was.

I just hope it goes the way I mentioned......
F1 Silver Arrows
spwolf
i dont think IS500 would be priced the same as german "top end performance" model.

And are we really complaining that future IS500 has only 416hp? Thats silly.
My thoughts exactly. I don't know why people are accusing Lexus of overrating their cars. They are usually on point for performance measurements when it comes to ideal/close to ideal conditions. And that was when they were naturally aspirated engines. Now that they have turbochargers, they can make such claims and easily hit their claimed performance numbers, or even go significantly better than their claimed numbers (they've already been doing that for most of their performance oriented models already). I am discounting the turbocharged 4-cylinder in cars like the NX or RC, because that's a first attempt in a long time to make a turbocharged engine to get the best of both worlds for performance and fuel economy. I have full trust in them that they would make their goal.

As for the LS, the 4.6 second claim is probably legitimate. It all matters down to specification, conditions of the weather (though this should affect turbocharged cars less than naturally aspirated variants), equipment to measure, etc.

416 horsepower in an IS should be able to walk away with no effort against competitors like the M340i, C43 AMG, XE35t, ATS V-Sport, S4. Even if they try to add more power and torque, it won't be able to match the engineering design of the 4IS. The engine, transmission, chassis (which includes steering, suspension, stiffness, etc.) of the new Lexus vehicles have gotten stellar reviews worldwide and are proof that it will be untouchable for the foreseeable future. You guys are also forgetting a major point. Lexus' (except for the RC) are much lighter vehicles than the competition. With the new TNGA platform under the new IS, they will be able to shred unnecessary weight while also adding crucial updates. Even if they make the 4IS close to the size of the current 4GS, with the materials that they are using for weight reduction (although expensive), they will still be ahead of the competition; just like the 2IS was.

I just hope it goes the way I mentioned......
S
F1 Silver Arrows
Lexus' (except for the RC) are much lighter vehicles than the competition.
I wouldn't make that claim based on LS's figure...
Take a look

Official figure
BMW 740i xDrive: 4361 lb; 0-60: 5.1 sec
https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7-series/sedan/740i-sedan/specifications.html
Lexus LS 500 AWD: 4707 lb; 0-60: 4.6 sec
https://www.lexus.com/models/LS/specifications

Car and driver figure
BMW 740i RWD: 4385 lb; 0-60: 4.8 sec
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-bmw-740i-long-term-test-review
Lexus LS 500 AWD: 4977 lb; 0-60: 5.0 sec
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-lexus-ls500-f-sport-awd-test-review
S
F1 Silver Arrows
Lexus' (except for the RC) are much lighter vehicles than the competition.
I wouldn't make that claim based on LS's figure...
Take a look

Official figure
BMW 740i xDrive: 4361 lb; 0-60: 5.1 sec
https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7-series/sedan/740i-sedan/specifications.html
Lexus LS 500 AWD: 4707 lb; 0-60: 4.6 sec
https://www.lexus.com/models/LS/specifications

Car and driver figure
BMW 740i RWD: 4385 lb; 0-60: 4.8 sec
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-bmw-740i-long-term-test-review
Lexus LS 500 AWD: 4977 lb; 0-60: 5.0 sec
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-lexus-ls500-f-sport-awd-test-review
S
sl0519
I wouldn't make that claim based on LS's figure...
Take a look

Official figure
BMW 740i xDrive: 4361 lb; 0-60: 5.1 sec
https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7-series/sedan/740i-sedan/specifications.html
Lexus LS 500 AWD: 4707 lb; 0-60: 4.6 sec
https://www.lexus.com/models/LS/specifications

Car and driver figure
BMW 740i RWD: 4385 lb; 0-60: 4.8 sec
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-bmw-740i-long-term-test-review
Lexus LS 500 AWD: 4977 lb; 0-60: 5.0 sec
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-lexus-ls500-f-sport-awd-test-review
sadly C&D forbid EU users on their site...can you copy and paste other performance measurement and also real mpg from their test?
S
sl0519
I wouldn't make that claim based on LS's figure...
Take a look

Official figure
BMW 740i xDrive: 4361 lb; 0-60: 5.1 sec
https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7-series/sedan/740i-sedan/specifications.html
Lexus LS 500 AWD: 4707 lb; 0-60: 4.6 sec
https://www.lexus.com/models/LS/specifications

Car and driver figure
BMW 740i RWD: 4385 lb; 0-60: 4.8 sec
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-bmw-740i-long-term-test-review
Lexus LS 500 AWD: 4977 lb; 0-60: 5.0 sec
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-lexus-ls500-f-sport-awd-test-review
sadly C&D forbid EU users on their site...can you copy and paste other performance measurement and also real mpg from their test?
S
spwolf
sadly C&D forbid EU users on their site...can you copy and paste other performance measurement and also real mpg from their test?
complete test data uploaded​

Spoiler

Spoiler
S
spwolf
sadly C&D forbid EU users on their site...can you copy and paste other performance measurement and also real mpg from their test?
complete test data uploaded​

Spoiler

Spoiler
Gecko
spwolf
i dont think IS500 would be priced the same as german "top end performance" model.

And are we really complaining that future IS500 has only 416hp? Thats silly.
No, and these are not "top end performance" models. Germans have now moved to a strategy where the core model is a 2.0T and then there are models that bridge the gap up to C63 and RS4/5, etc.

For example, there is no longer a standard V6 Mercedes C class - "C350" or "C400" - they go straight from 2.0T C300 to C43 AMG, then up to C63 AMG.

Audi dropped the A4 3.2 years ago and now goes from A4 (2.0T) to V6 S4 to RS4.

BMW has not followed this pattern but it wouldn't surprise me if they did with how they've already introduced M550i into the 5 Series range.

So, my point here is that if Lexus was to do something like 2.0L/2.4L/2.5L turbo for "IS 300" or "IS 350" as the core IS model, then "IS 500 F Sport" with the V35A-FTS, that compares very well to what the Germans are doing. Do they have to follow that playbook? No way, but truthfully, these turbo 4 cylinder models are becoming plenty powerful for 90% of consumers so the market for a second "core" performance model - like IS 350, C350, 340i - is shrinking. There's less reason to upgrade with more power from base engines. So that's why we've seen the Germans position and market them differently, now as more dedicated performance models, which would be perfect for an IS with V35A-FTS.

Even if we have ~290hp turbo 4cyl IS and ~416hp turbo V6 IS, that still leaves a hole for IS F to compete with C63, M3, etc.
Gecko
spwolf
i dont think IS500 would be priced the same as german "top end performance" model.

And are we really complaining that future IS500 has only 416hp? Thats silly.
No, and these are not "top end performance" models. Germans have now moved to a strategy where the core model is a 2.0T and then there are models that bridge the gap up to C63 and RS4/5, etc.

For example, there is no longer a standard V6 Mercedes C class - "C350" or "C400" - they go straight from 2.0T C300 to C43 AMG, then up to C63 AMG.

Audi dropped the A4 3.2 years ago and now goes from A4 (2.0T) to V6 S4 to RS4.

BMW has not followed this pattern but it wouldn't surprise me if they did with how they've already introduced M550i into the 5 Series range.

So, my point here is that if Lexus was to do something like 2.0L/2.4L/2.5L turbo for "IS 300" or "IS 350" as the core IS model, then "IS 500 F Sport" with the V35A-FTS, that compares very well to what the Germans are doing. Do they have to follow that playbook? No way, but truthfully, these turbo 4 cylinder models are becoming plenty powerful for 90% of consumers so the market for a second "core" performance model - like IS 350, C350, 340i - is shrinking. There's less reason to upgrade with more power from base engines. So that's why we've seen the Germans position and market them differently, now as more dedicated performance models, which would be perfect for an IS with V35A-FTS.

Even if we have ~290hp turbo 4cyl IS and ~416hp turbo V6 IS, that still leaves a hole for IS F to compete with C63, M3, etc.
S
Correct, the market is moving towards fewer engine options. With one four cylinder core model, a lite-performance model, and a true performance model. Three tiers, that's it. 2.4T->3.5TT->IS-F, throw in an economy hybrid, that's all they need.
S
Correct, the market is moving towards fewer engine options. With one four cylinder core model, a lite-performance model, and a true performance model. Three tiers, that's it. 2.4T->3.5TT->IS-F, throw in an economy hybrid, that's all they need.
Gecko
I also expect that in the absence of GS, the 3.5L TT V6 IS and IS F will have extended appeal beyond just the compact class (even if just for loyal Lexus buyers and return GS customers).
Gecko
I also expect that in the absence of GS, the 3.5L TT V6 IS and IS F will have extended appeal beyond just the compact class (even if just for loyal Lexus buyers and return GS customers).

G