Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan to be Offered with BMW Inline-Six Turbo Engine?

The partnership with Subaru and Toyota on the FRS (now-86) came out to be a stunner. At least both companies were Japanese. Having German engine in a Lexus or Toyota, as a purest seems odd. It doesn't make it Japanese, which has a good track record with reliability, and stunned the automotive world in doing so. Having a BMW most likely tuned a little less would increase reliability, but that just says the heart of the car is German. Nothing wrong with that, but it makes the purist in me say, Well, maybe I should go work for BMW? Ghastly iDrive dial that I personally don't like and some of their newer styling is not for me. I preferred their older generation styling...I get guests owning our cars for multiple generations of our cars and they prefer to have the Japanese engine(s) engineering and inherent all the quirks. It's what makes us unique! :)

Came in here to mirror silver f1 arrows.

A lot of you Lexus fanboys who usually pump their fists and get all tribal and gang-member style on anything that is german (particularly BMW) usually do not know what you are talking about.

First off--I'm a hardcore Lexus guy. I own two new ones. Currently. How many do you own? Currently. Lets get that out of the way.

The B58 or any BMW straight six for that matter is not unreliable. You fanboys are taking the overall german-not-reliable reputation (rightfully deserved in many cases) and blanketly applying it to anything BMW. The recent V8s and V10s are largely where this reliability stigma comes from.

I've owned several straight six BMWs, all six figures, some mid twos. Without a single breakdown. Absolute platinum reliability. A country's flag or color of one's skin does not make a car unreliable. Lets think objectively here instead of resorting to brand tribalism.

The B58 is actually the reverse of what you think. It's extremely stout and extremely reliable. I mean extreme. It is overbuilt. Not perfect, but built. Do not discount it based merely on "OH NOES ITS THE OTHER SIDE, WE MUST SHOW OUR TESTOSTERONE AND HATE FOR THE GERMANS--ATTACK!!"

Please. That's juvenile. Don't do that. Be open minded and objective. Give credit to where it's due. A great product is a great product regardless of what uniform or colors are behind it. Had enough of this fanboy mentality no matter where it comes from. But it's usually extremely strong and biased on the Japanese car side. Like they've got something to prove so they're overcompensating with even extra anger. Not good.

Both companies are capable of making outstanding products. Celebrate your fellow human beings when they achieve something great instead of chastising them for the country they are from and because it goes against the team you root for. It's just a car. Chillax. Also don't take for granted that the reason Lexus has been so brilliantly reliable for decades is because they've been using and recycling old tech. Today the market demands turbo power, complicated infotainment and lots of gadgets. To compete, Lexus must include these features. The more we go on in time we're going to see this reliability naturally and inherently take a hit. Growing pains.

The B58 being used in the 4IS makes a lot of sense. It has an inherent smoothness and power delivery about it that you are simply not getting in a V6. This would put the IS in a high league with minimal research and development costs on Lexus's part. Also BMW could benefit since a lot of dollars went into developing this engine. Everyone would come out a winner.

In this market Mercedes and BMW (The two main competitors) will have their own straight six turbo.

Don't forget Infiniti uses Mercedes-Benz power. It's not unheard of. All you guys are thinking Lexus hats, Lexus tattoos, Lexus uniforms. But the boys up in the boardrooms of these companies are thinking of delivering a great product and making money.

Sure Lexus could develop their own turbo I6 but that would take generations to get to refine it to a point where BMW is with their straight sixes today. That stuff doesn't happen overnight.

The current TT v6 in the LS is low-volume and maybe it's not ready for primetime in a high volume car as the IS. we'll see.

Either way,

Lexus knows that they can no longer bring a knife to a gun fight. Even if it means borrowing someone else's gun.

CT2IS

Sure Lexus could develop their own turbo I6 but that would take generations to get to refine it to a point where BMW is with their straight sixes today. That stuff doesn't happen overnight.

Lexus is actually one of the few companies where that stuff *could've* happened overnight if the bean counters had allowed it. Say it with me: "Three Jay Zee".

Since we live in an imperfect bean-countery world it of course makes sense to go to BMW for an I6. It's not like FCA is gonna start making Slant Sixes again (even though they should). I do think it's a valid concern that such an IS would have virtually nothing in common with either the ES or LS. No Safety System 2.0, no free CarPlay and Android Auto, and so on.

Gecko

If Lexus starts using old BMW parts like Infiniti is using old Mercedes stuff, I will be fully "out" on this brand.

Right there with you. The new 'Supra' is a big enough disappointment personally as it is. If Akio Toyoda actually ends up being bold enough to allow a BMW engine into a Lexus, then no thanks, I will be fully out on Lexus as well. Even now, as is, Lexus is barely the brand I grew up with and came to love. Mostly gone are the Lexus models that had a pillow soft ride on almost any road surface, and a serene driving experience all of which lasted even into very high mileage figures. Lexus these days is mainly focused on design (nothing wrong with that), and on performance or sport (with less focus on pure luxury). I see nothing wrong with sport or performance for a luxury brand, assuming that core, regular models are kept untouched in terms of pure luxury and other existing attributes that owners love and that performance and sport is added only onto other special trims or models. This is not exactly what has happened with Lexus.

Gecko

Hey guys, lets get this back to the 4th gen IS.

Thanks.

Still, I firmly believe Krew should take down the article from the home page. Just think about how much negative press it generates considering other car media do use this site as a source for Lexus news. This just adds fuel to the fire of that obnoxious BMW Supra debate.

In fact, I would suggest as far as not posting any unsubstantiated rumor, positive or negative, on the home page. For forum discussion it's fine, but having false information always reduces quality of this site.

ssun30

They have all of the powertrain sans one engine (the 2.5T) ready for the entire IS lineup TODAY. They don't need anything new from anybody else.

This is exactly my point. As far as I know, TNGA is a framework that was designed to be modular, to help share parts between cars, and to help reduce the amount of guesswork and R&D required to get things to work. Pick a wheelbase, pick a seat height, pick an engine layout etc. and the decision trees get pruned further and further until you end up with a platform that is ready to go. I am almost certain that the 4IS will be developed on that TNGA framework, so it makes more sense to stick with what was developed and validated.

While I see the point, don't forget this website is a business and such articles generate a lot of clicks, traffic and visits. Those things generate money :)

Toyota and Lexus have reached a new dawn with the TNGA architecture which has skyrocketed the what was pretty damn good handling to something else. I agree with @ssun30 that we have everything we need. The monster TTV8 has rumoured to be completed, we have an excellent TTV6 which we can bring to the mid-range IS since it is fit for a small sports sedan. We got good hybrid engines and the 2.4T/2.5T should be an excellent base engine when you consider horsepower/L. Assuming it makes 120-125 horsepower/L (a la Lexus' 3.5TT) you got a really solid engine. Also don't forget we have better drivetrains (AWD systems specifically) coming soon. Infotainment systems are getting better, Toyota/Lexus finally won the battle against Apple and Android for ensuring secure systems in their cars. Design has become so much better and they evolved the L-Finesse design language to a tee. Electric powertrains can soon be merged to the amazing TNGA platform. We really have all the ingredients to fire back up. We have no excuse this time around. We need another 2006 to happen again.

ssun30

Still, I firmly believe Krew should take down the article from the home page. Just think about how much negative press it generates considering other car media do use this site as a source for Lexus news. This just adds fuel to the fire of that obnoxious BMW Supra debate.

In fact, I would suggest as far as not posting any unsubstantiated rumor, positive or negative, on the home page. For forum discussion it's fine, but having false information always reduces quality of this site.

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krew

If this rumor is true, then people not caring is exactly what Lexus would be hoping for. And this isn't to single you out, I'm roughly feel the same way.

The twisted path that Lexus/Toyota engine development is a tough pill to swallow. Reliable engines may take time to test and build, but this is getting ridiculous.

Perhaps Lexus is just targeting BMW/Mercedes/Audi owners with the next IS, not legacy owners whose priorities are long-term ownership. These types of buyers would most likely be leasing, and they'll rinse and repeat in 3 years. Compact CUVs have usurped sedans for popularity (NX>IS sales), no offense, but many of them women who'd care more about utility than performance, which seems to be more of a 'guy' thing.

If its reliable and if we can tune it, I'm all for an I-6 coming back from BMW.

mikeavelli

If its reliable and if we can tune it, I'm all for an I-6 coming back from BMW.

Bring back some Jigga under the hood...

For those saying performance is more a guys thing I disagree! My partner told me she wants a Maserati GranCabrio! While I am eagerly waiting for the Lexus LCC. I know lots of women that like performance and sticking there foot down but anyway moving on...I believe the new IS will do very well and that lots of people will buy it with the better line up of engines and the refined styling. Lexus using BMW engines? No way, it won’t happen and BMW have made sure of that. (which by all means they should be protecting their own interests like Lexus would) I think though there’s many people leaving the IS as the decider wether to keep with Lexus or not. We all want a true F car back for the IS and a 340i competitor (let alone luxury in all the models) and as my guys have said it is on the table is it going to be too late? Will the performance from Lexus be aimed at an old version and be in the background to the new varients from the Germans? What about the Italians? Will it be a fight between them with us trailing? Only time will tell and (only in my opinion) with Alfa bringing some amazing cars to the line up and using Ferrari technology in sedans and CUV’s how you going to compete with 220hp combined hybrids? I used to love Lexus and have convinced many people to own one and yet I might be walking away (hypocrite I know).

If the IS looks like the rendering or better, it gets better hybrids and competitive petrol varients, have more options on aero packs, Carbon parts, technology, different suspension options etc. Then could be a winner! But this is a lot to ask from one model and I’am afraid we are expecting too much.

If they don’t bring out the LCC then I guess I’ll be looking to Maserati and the Italians for the future but will always have respect for the Lexus brand!

Where is this collaboration with BMW going? Are we looking at a takeover by Toyota or liaison like the a Renault Nissan where in fact Renault hold a controlling interest or is it simply a friendly temp deal? Unlikely I would think. Imo Bmw whilst good cars do not have the longevity of Toyota/Lexus range. Confusing!

My impression is that you don't care at all about Toyota! Mr. Akio Toyoda has been endlessly underscoring that, Toyota is fighting for survival.

I believe the following :
Mr. Akio Toyoda says that, Toyota must get transformed into a mobility company. From now on TMC will develop sustainable mobility solutions only! Anything else will get outsourced.

Mr. Akio Toyoda loves sport cars. If he didn't love, he wouldn't bother developing the project. Even though fans will get disappointed, he couldn't assign more resources to the project.

After reading this article: https://www.clublexus.com/how-tos/s...-with-porsche-in-dependability-ranking-559176

I highly doubt BMW or any other carmaker puts the amount of OCD into developing and building their engines like Lexus. As much as I want a faster IS, I prefer it to remain a Lexus in every sense of the brand.