Lexus LF-1 Limitless Crossover on Display at DesignMiami/ Conference

Carmaker1

I had wanted this to be called LX SportCross, since GLE Coupe exists below that and keeps GLE nameplate.

According to a Lexus forum member (same guy who saw 2018 LS in early-mid 2016), he's seen the whole modular MHA CUV family, which look better than before. MB is going to become a real threat soon. GLS X167, W167 GLE, C167, and V167.

Since you have a very good insight on how most of the automaker operate, do you know if automakers have an idea of what's in the pipeline for their competitors?

bogglo

Since you have a very good insight on how most of the automaker operate, do you know if automakers have an idea of what's in the pipeline for their competitors?

In many cases, yes. Industry access areas do indicate this, but not for all models all the time. New nameplates are not always available to see.

Carmaker1

I honestly get so tired of editing my posts, because of stupid autocorrect and voice to text screwing it up. I am very pedantic and particular about accuracy and good grammar. Please excuse me.

No worries because I edit my posts all the time when I spot errors. That is an old habit I developed in College since I wanted to try my best to hide my identity as a non-native English speaker.

Thank you very much for your insightful post, as always. I know something important is happening, when Mr.Carmaker1 logs in and posts lengthy replies; I assume many members of this forum think the same.

meth.ix

I honestly don't think that Lexus needs any SUV coupes, at least for now. Right now, they need to focus on perfecting the current SUV lineup, which will most likely get the most sales. Making the RX a slightly bigger, RWD-based SUV to properly compete with the X5 and GLE-Class

Making the RX RWD based and giving it +300 PS is all that is needed to compete against the Germans, if it continues looking this good. Except for the FWD overhang, the current RX it is the best looking CUV out there.

Carmaker1

MB is going to become a real threat soon. GLS X167, W167 GLE, C167, and V167.

Why are there two codes for each?
GLE Wagon = W167
GLS Wagon = X167
GLE Coupe = C167 ?
GLS Coupe = V167 ?

Anyway, it looks like X7 and GLS will remain a souped-up X5 and GLE. Do not the Guard versions have a different code? Why no TMC factory armored cars?

Carmaker1

I am very pedantic and particular about accuracy and good grammar. Please excuse me.

ssun30

No worries because I edit my posts all the time when I spot errors.

That makes 3 of us. I do the same thing.

ssun30

Thank you very much for your insightful post, as always. I know something important is happening, when Mr.Carmaker1 logs in and posts lengthy replies; I assume many members of this forum think the same.

Absolutely! :thumbsup:

Joaquin Ruhi

That makes 3 of us. I do the same thing.


Absolutely! :thumbsup:

ditto ... ditto ... ditto! ... that makes 4 of us! :)
And may I echo everyone else's appreciation of @Carmaker1 :cool:

Slap me in as a part of that list too. I also am very critical on myself when I create statements and replies. So hey, you're amazing for giving us so much insight, I really appreciate it. You know, I find it really fun to write in an articulate manner. Gives this form a level of class that no other forums have and gives me a level of satisfaction. Like everyone else, I really love reading your posts.

I don't think we need to put this much pressure on ourselves (even though it's fun to write novels in forum posting), because this forum, because of the community is what makes it so special. I have never seen any other forums that are so adamant on having good grammar. It just makes this forum that much better to be a part of.

I just have to say , once they keep that split light spoiler , and rear end I am in .

ssun30

No worries because I edit my posts all the time when I spot errors. That is an old habit I developed in College since I wanted to try my best to hide my identity as a non-native English speaker.

Thank you very much for your insightful post, as always. I know something important is happening, when Mr.Carmaker1 logs in and posts lengthy replies; I assume many members of this forum think the same.

Well, thanks that is very strongly appreciated! Glad to know I am not rambling instead.:laughing:

I think what bothers me, is what is read or quoted by others before catching my typo and possibly being misconstrued in the process.

Joaquin Ruhi

That makes 3 of us. I do the same thing.


Absolutely! :thumbsup:

Thanks, but at least your final edit comes out as clean! In many cases my final edit is, by chance, so typo-laden, that i can't imagine if it is unnerving for other parties to read coherently. Since much of the Lexus stories I am writing, 70% of info is in Japanese and being pieced together from other language sources and for 5LS requires so much vetting of accuracy, one can see why it is taking a billion years for me to produce results.

RAL

ditto ... ditto ... ditto! ... that makes 4 of us! :)
And may I echo everyone else's appreciation of @Carmaker1 :cool:

Thank you, very much appreciated! Even though I have promised 5LS story this month, but still working on fine-tuning it.

F1 Silver Arrows

Slap me in as a part of that list too. I also am very critical on myself when I create statements and replies. So hey, you're amazing for giving us so much insight, I really appreciate it. You know, I find it really fun to write in an articulate manner. Gives this form a level of class that no other forums have and gives me a level of satisfaction. Like everyone else, I really love reading your posts.

I don't think we need to put this much pressure on ourselves (even though it's fun to write novels in forum posting), because this forum, because of the community is what makes it so special. I have never seen any other forums that are so adamant on having good grammar. It just makes this forum that much better to be a part of.

I know, right? My style of posting isn't for everyone, but it is really to make up for a dearth of info and details in the mainstream automotive media world, where everyone else has to pick up the slack and do it some justice. There is only one other forum I could name with such intellectual discussiom, but bias is way too teutonic there, that I could not even tolerate the level of abuse levied at my employer JLR ever so often.

In fact, regarding "teutonic motor f--r-m";), Lexus really gets a very bad shake often. I mean, damn. For double standard reasons, Bentley and Rolls-Royce only get paid attention to, solely over their parent company. Plus cross-pollination with Italian brand fanboyism (VAG connection for Lambo). Everything else, suffers in disregard or biased criticism. I am well respected there, but sometimes a very tough environment to live up to regarding posted content. I do not play favorites.

It explains why I try to match it or do better here, with some more leeway. Most other members of the industry on forums, are a little too mute and arrogant in their approach, essentially gas-lighting people inquiring or being terribly dismissive (from my curious observation). I try to be better than that, unless directly insulted.

Levi

Making the RX RWD based and giving it +300 PS is all that is needed to compete against the Germans, if it continues looking this good. Except for the FWD overhang, the current RX it is the best looking CUV out there.



Why are there two codes for each?
GLE Wagon = W167
GLS Wagon = X167
GLE Coupe = C167 ?
GLS Coupe = V167 ?

Anyway, it looks like X7 and GLS will remain a souped-up X5 and GLE. Do not the Guard versions have a different code? Why no TMC factory armored cars?

I really wish 760X RX program was made for GA-L and not GA-K. They are probably far along on it at this point, entering mid-stages and set for 2021. Because of Cambridge, Ontario connection to N. Amer., I have been able to see some info on that car, unlike Japan-only assembled Lexus.

That is how I unearthed the development code. Source claimed 600X NX will be added to TMMC? A lot of Toyota development codes hidden out there in Japanese text sites, then verified (by me) via database for global suppliers.

The 2016 RX was the best selling year ever, a good jump from MY 2015. Bear in mind sales pretty much started in December 2015 and Europe in Q1 2016, so much of the Year-To-Date fell within 2016 itself. Yet so many criticisms about "it won't sell".

C167 is the GLE coupe (but of course you know that);)
Maybe V167 is the 4-seater Maybach GLS? That is the code I found for manfacturing, staring in 2019 (can't remember date). That idea to stupidly, forever tie the GLE (nee ML) and GLS (nee GL) has forever been a cynical one, that I am emphatically tired of!

Between assembling it in the middle of Alabama, building as an extended length GLE (AGAIN!), and saving money on the interior, the profit margin must be immense. All these new modular architectures at MB, are nothing more than a way justify resurrection of past high-end products or blur the lines of connections between models.

The CLK/E Coupe was nothing more than a fancy 2-door C-Class, until modular MRA made it easier to create a proper E Coupe. After C124 and A124 ended in 1997, it was just that. Now MHA conveniently allows GLE and GLS to go their separate ways, but how true is this?

Also, I had partly lost interest in the X7 (too long rollout) and stopped paying close attention, so hearing it's really a larger G05 X5 is unfortunate. Really shocked to hear this, considering my mother wanted a proper 7er-related crossover alongside M760i. No wonder no V12 as you said elsewhere.

As for factory armoured Toyotas, I really have to wonder if it interferes with their business model(s)? Can't say I agree with that, as the Land Cruiser and LX are probably the world's most armoured vehicles on average, in terms of sheer volume. Then again, they still haven't made Lexus have a fully global presence, so can't say I am surprised how they skip or sleep on these things.

As I had said on Thursday night about X8 (without prior knowledge of confirmation), BMW has now as of Friday confirmed the X8 SAV, which will complete design freeze later this year and be released parallel to the Lexus LQ, its primary competitor in late 2020.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2020-bmw-x8-range-rover-rival-edges-closer-production

Carmaker1

In fact, regarding "teutonic motor f--r-m";), Lexus really gets a very bad shake often. I mean, damn. For double standard reasons, Bentley and Rolls-Royce only get paid attention to, solely over their parent company. Plus cross-pollination with Italian brand fanboyism (VAG connection for Lambo). Everything else, suffers in disregard or biased criticism.

That place is terrible. It is fine if they like something more, but that place has turned out to be extremely aggressive and lacks any worthy discussions now, it is all about insulting others. I have noticed it started by the roundel clan, but mostly a very few members, if not a single one. But that or those members are protected by a moderator in the same clan that refuses to take any measures.

Carmaker1

As for factory armoured Toyotas, I really have to wonder if it interferes with their business model(s)? Can't say I agree with that, as the Land Cruiser and LX are probably the world's most armoured vehicles on average, in terms of sheer volume. Then again, they still haven't made Lexus have a fully global presence, so can't say I am surprised how they skip or sleep on these things.

Engineering a car to be armored from start must result in a better overall and more discrete product. Conversions can take longer, quality is slightly different between armoring companies. If TMC had such a division, they could earn quite a chunk of the market. For a minimum B6 and B7 standard would already be something. I do not know if Toyota engineers its Land Cruiser at least with armor in mind. It is a market that is not talked about, but unfortunately it is reality in some places, where even less well-off people armor what they can, namely a Toyota Corolla to B4. There was a time when BMW sold a B4 armored 3 Series E46.

Carmaker1

As I had said on Thursday night about X8 (without prior knowledge of confirmation), BMW has now as of Friday confirmed the X8 SAV, which will complete design freeze later this year and be released parallel to the Lexus LQ, its primary competitor in late 2020.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/2020-bmw-x8-range-rover-rival-edges-closer-production

If the X8 will be to the X7 what X6 is to X5 and X4 is to X3, It will not stand out well or feel that special. BMW's SAV/SAC cars are more like sedan/wagon pairs in terms of difference, so no exclusivity or anything special.

Carmaker1

I really wish 760X RX program was made for GA-L and not GA-K. They are probably far along on it at this point, entering mid-stages and set for 2021. Because of Cambridge, Ontario connection to N. Amer., I have been able to see some info on that car, unlike Japan-only assembled Lexus.

That is how I unearthed the development code.

I've seen stray comments on this site suggesting that the next RX would move to the GA-L RWD-centric platform. Much as I would've loved to see that happen, my reaction was somewhere between a raised eyebrow and WTF deep skepticism. I'm not the least bit surprised that conventional wisdom prevailed and that RX will continue to be transverse-engined and FWD-centric, and sit on the GA-K architecture.

Carmaker1

Source claimed 600X NX will be added to TMMC? A lot of Toyota development codes hidden out there in Japanese text sites, then verified (by me) via database for global suppliers.

Again, I'm not the least bit surprised. Given the Toyota RAV4 (Lexus NX's fraternal twin) moving from the smaller New MC to the larger TNGA-K and the expansion of Canadian RAV4 production into the Cambridge plant (which already hosts a dedicated Lexus RX production line), I'd say this move would be a natural.

Carmaker1

Also, I had partly lost interest in the BMW X7 (too-long rollout) and stopped paying close attention, so hearing it's really a larger G05 X5 is unfortunate. Really shocked to hear this, considering my mother wanted a proper 7er-related crossover alongside M760i. No wonder no V12 as you said elsewhere.

Makes sense to me, yet the Autocar article you linked contains these passages:

Autocar

Discussions are believed to centre on the platform structure the X8 would need and whether it should be a coupé version of the X7...

...As such, the emphasis will be on delivering luxurious rear-seat travel, with the materials and finishes chosen to further that goal, rather than being focused on outright practicality.

While the latter idea is said to be favoured by many, it potentially adds complexity to the project as it may require the car to be built on a hybrid mix of BMW’s CLAR modular platform, which underpins the firm’s other X models, and the Rolls-Royce Cullinan’s new aluminium structure in order to achieve rigidity without adding too much weight or cost...

...Power is likely to come from the same powertrains as for the X7, although the sales focus in China, Russia and the Middle East may mean that initial offerings are confined to higher-powered petrol or plug-in petrol-electric hybrid drivelines. Given those target markets, the possibility of a V12-engined X8, powered by the 592bhp, 590lb ft 6.6-litre unit that is found in the 7 Series, is highly likely.

The question is: will X8 be simply be an X7 coupe, thus making Autocar's speculation wrong, or will X8 have that much differentiation from X7?

Joaquin Ruhi

The question is: will X8 be simply be an X7 coupe, thus making Autocar's speculation wrong, or will X8 have that differentiation from X7?

Knowing how cheap BMW is, highly unlikely that the X8 will be anything else than an X7 coupe. BMW has long resisted bringing back the CSL badge, now it will return, because BMW found out how to rip-off fanboys. BMW had the 2 coupe, 4 coupe and 6 coupe, which are simply 2 door versions of 1 hatch, 3 sedan and 5 sedan. Should not be different with the X line. Even so, the X2 does not differentiate enough from the X1, other than markup.

Carmaker1

I had wanted this to be called LX SportCross, since GLE Coupe exists below that and keeps GLE nameplate.

I was thinking LS Sportcross similar to the IS Sportcross but by creating a new model line Lexus can do much more.

LQ 500 (V35A-FTS)
LQ 500h (8GR-FXS)
LQ F (V50A-FTS, twin turbo V8)

Lexus can also expand the "Q" crossover coupe and include more affordable lines such as GQ (mid-level) and RQ (entry-level).

GQ 350 (2GR-FSE)
RQ 250 (4GR-FSE)

Guys, what if we're thinking about this all wrong?

LS - Luxury Sedan
LC - Luxury Coupe
LX - Luxury Crossover

Lexus has called the LF-1 "a new flagship luxury crossover." What if they made the LF-1 the new LX line? This would avoid having to rename the RX to the RQ and risk losing mindshare on its most popular model with a new name. All crossovers then would be under the #X moniker and Lexus would still be open to shifting them over to the RWD/GA-L platform.

What about the current LX/GX? Well, they can be placed under the new LQ/GQ line. Maybe it makes more sense to rename the rugged SUVs to a new line than having to rename the RX down the road.

With the timing of trademark filing, this is very unlikely at this point, as carmaker has stated. But what if? #thinkdifferent

mordecai

What about the current LX/GX? Well, they can be placed under the new LQ/GQ line. Maybe it makes more sense to rename the rugged SUVs to a new line than having to rename the RX down the road.

With the timing of trademark filing, this is very unlikely at this point, as carmaker has stated. But what if? #thinkdifferent

That's an interesting thought. Although the chance of that happening is very low.

mordecai

Guys, what if we're thinking about this all wrong?

LS - Luxury Sedan
LC - Luxury Coupe
LX - Luxury Crossover

Lexus has called the LF-1 "a new flagship luxury crossover." What if they made the LF-1 the new LX line? This would avoid having to rename the RX to the RQ and risk losing mindshare on its most popular model with a new name. All crossovers then would be under the #X moniker and Lexus would still be open to shifting them over to the RWD/GA-L platform.

What about the current LX/GX? Well, they can be placed under the new LQ/GQ line. Maybe it makes more sense to rename the rugged SUVs to a new line than having to rename the RX down the road.

With the timing of trademark filing, this is very unlikely at this point, as carmaker has stated. But what if? #thinkdifferent

Well first LX is very successful and established vehicle, and then it is always going to be very different from LQ.

Then LX and LQ are very, very complimentary vehicles .

LX does extremely well and is best selling vehicle in Arab countries as well as Russia where you need a real SUV and have money to pay for its luxuries. It does bad in western countries where it is too big and too suv as well as too pricey.

LQ will do really well in western countries where you do not need SUV, but want performance, upscale CUV. It will also likely barely sell anything in arab countries.

So these two are very complimentary, and if they can reach 36k sales with LQ as they do with LX, this will be huge success for Lexus.

An Italian coach builder is coming at the luxury crossover from the exact other direction. They're bolting a sedan-ish body onto a Ram 1500 frame so you have a real live body-on-frame luxobarge just like Detroit used to make. Except uglier.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu...tivation-behind-this-truck-sedan-abomination/

https://www.quintessa.com/

Well the Q8 has debuted for anyone watching. I just hope this new Lexus vehicle doesn't take 3-4 years to arrive.

mordecai

Guys, what if we're thinking about this all wrong?

LS - Luxury Sedan
LC - Luxury Coupe
LX - Luxury Crossover

Lexus has called the LF-1 "a new flagship luxury crossover." What if they made the LF-1 the new LX line? This would avoid having to rename the RX to the RQ and risk losing mindshare on its most popular model with a new name. All crossovers then would be under the #X moniker and Lexus would still be open to shifting them over to the RWD/GA-L platform.

What about the current LX/GX? Well, they can be placed under the new LQ/GQ line. Maybe it makes more sense to rename the rugged SUVs to a new line than having to rename the RX down the road.

With the timing of trademark filing, this is very unlikely at this point, as carmaker has stated. But what if? #thinkdifferent

Obviously
From what I heard so far
The Q will only be exclusive to L & G
For 2 reasons:
1)to still have the BOF L & G
2)to differentiate
the FWB U , N & R
From
the RWB L & G

So you will never have U , N & R with Q suffix unless they are RWB applications and you will know the BOF L & G by just the suffix either X or Q

maiaramdan

Obviously
From what I heard so far
The Q will only be exclusive to L & G
For 2 reasons:
1)to still have the BOF L & G
2)to differentiate
the FWB U , N & R
From
the RWB L & G

So you will never have U , N & R with Q suffix unless they are RWB applications and you will know the BOF L & G by just the suffix either X or Q

That makes sense @maiaramdan. Ideally I would like N and R to be RWD based too, so it could have a Q variant on the side, and leave the U as the only FWD one (since it serves as a city crossover, it doesn't need RWD).

:praise:Yep, I was right. MY2021, due in Fall 2020. This is a fact, not a rumour. Design is reportedly locked in, so they know what the production model looks like.

Carmaker1

:praise:Yep, I was right. MY2021, due in Fall 2020. This is a fact, not a rumour. Design is reportedly locked in, so they know what the production model looks like.

In light of this, do the rumors of an autumn 2019 public unveiling at the Tokyo Motor Show make sense? Or is that too soon?

Joaquin Ruhi

In light of this, do the rumors of an autumn 2019 public unveiling at the Tokyo Motor Show make sense? Or is that too soon?

Wow I just remembered that rumor talked about unveiling the production version of the LF-1 aka LQ at next year Tokyo

It's as if puzzle keeps solving itself

Joaquin Ruhi

In light of this, do the rumors of an autumn 2019 public unveiling at the Tokyo Motor Show make sense? Or is that too soon?

It depends on how early they want to start marketing it. I said at GS-F NAIAS 2015 reveal, that Lexus would reveal the LC 500 at 2016 NAIAS and a few months later (quietly discovered plans for LF-FC vs reveal, 4 months in advance), LS at NAIAS 2017.

Vehicles like this, they typically reveal really early. SC 430 was revealed pretty much in the fall of 1999, fully confirmed in April 2000 and launched in March 2001.

LS 430 was revealed on January 10, 2000, using an advanced stage prototype built in late 1999
and launched in October 2000.

4LS was displayed in October 2005 via LF-Sh, fully confirmed on January 8, 2006, and launched on September 19, 2006 JDM/October 20, 2006 for export.

LX 570 was revealed in April 2007, fully launched in January 2008.

LFA reveal was in October 2009, just 14 months after design freeze in 2008. Launch was March 2011.

LC reveal was January 11, 2016, launch was in May 2017. However, the stage of prototype shown was similar to Acura's NS-X at Chicago in February 1989 and 1999 SC 430 concept.

The LC 500 shown in January 2016 was built in the fall of 2015 and photographed in November of 2015 for press shots. Engineering sign-off wasn't until Summer 2016, so it differed from later LCs.
(Had to say this, as people (outside LE) actually think Honda made a concept last minute and then had Ayrton Senna engineer it for them from 1989 to 1991:confused:: unamused:; car was released Nov 1990 or so, locked in 1988)

LS reveal was January 9, 2017, launch was in January 2018 and February for export.

Not unexpected, but only if things stay on schedule.

Carmaker1

:praise:Yep, I was right. MY2021, due in Fall 2020. This is a fact, not a rumour. Design is reportedly locked in, so they know what the production model looks like.

thats pretty soon, all things considered... thanks for the info.

I know this car is not a direct competitor (it could be competitive) but here are some pics of the Rolls Royce Cullinan "3-box" interior from the configurator.




We know that CUV's are not really bought for many rational or objective reasons. Those not needing to transport big objects (a van is way way better) will benefit from such a cargo separation in terms of comfort. I really hope such an option will be available for the LQ, as is available for this Rolls Royce Cullinan, the Range Rover and the Volvo XC90. The LS does not have fully individual rear seats with fixed center console, the LQ must have such a configuration.

I do no 3-box SUV really have no benefits
The Cullinan to Ghost is the LQ to LS
So already the Ghost is not in the same LS category

Lexus is reportedly planning a high-performance crossover for reveal in 2020, with the intent to rival the Lamborghini Urus.

The vehicle is reported to be a new Lexus flagship platform, based on the LF-1 Limitless concept that debuted in January, according to Japanese publication Spyder7. Base models will reportedly be powered by the 3.5-liter, twin-turbo V-6 from the Lexus LS 500, retuned to make 424 horsepower (430 ps). This engine could reportedly join forces with two electric motors to produce even more power and boost fuel economy.

A high-performance "F" version of the crossover could allegedly be powered by the same 4.0-liter, twin-turbo V-8 expected to propel the rumored LC F. In the LF-1 F, as we'll call it, this engine will reportedly make 661 horsepower (670 ps), or enough to win the on-paper war with the 641-horsepower Lamborghini Urusby 20 hp. The LF-1 F is alleged to have the Lamborghini beaten on pricepoint, too, with a projected cost of around $150,000 USD to the Urus' $200,000.


This flagship model's premiere is claimed to be scheduled for 2020, and its market launch for 2021.

sounds like fun

http://www.thedrive.com/news/25090/lexus-rumored-to-be-developing-661-hp-lamborghini-urus-challenger

http://www.thedrive.com/news/25090/lexus-rumored-to-be-developing-661-hp-lamborghini-urus-challenger

Another wild rumour about future Lexus products from Japanese car websites/magazines.