Video: Lexus ES Digital Side Mirrors in Action

Gecko

You are choosing not to see the points about development timelines and product planning between Toyota and Lexus, and would rather counter with extreme "YEAH? SO?" discussions. We are going downhill here.

But he does have an important point. CarPlay wasn't ready when LS500 launched. Should they have waited until it was ready, and then delayed it again until calendar year 2019 because Android Auto is apparently coming? The thing with these tech rollouts on cars is that they're getting into the same place computers have been for years: there IS no good time to upgrade because new stuff's always 3 months off.

I think i read somewhere in this forum that doing this stuff gives them the chance to iron out glitches and problems that may arise during the first roll out. So by the time its in a car like the LS, its almost perfect with little to no issues. A good example is the UX interior what they added where the touch-pad is. that could have been in the ES but IMO they probably have it in the UX to get a feed a back. The other example will be the touch screen that is supposed to go in the refresh RX (if the video about the Lexus product planning is to be believed.)

krew

Video: Lexus ES Digital Side Mirrors in Action

Now available in Japan.

View the original article post

I think this looks awesome and Glad they are coming out with it now. It does seem however that everything from a execution perspective for the ES is working better than it did for the debut of the LS. The biggest thing that stuck out on the LS is the touchpad controller but I haven't heard one bad thing about it with the new ES. I would have to agree they could have done a better job getting the LS message ready before it's debut. It seems everything related to the ES is going off without a issue. IMO...

R,

Markus

[QUOTE="Gecko, post: 39278, member: 7"I would not spend my own money to buy:
ES over Camry
GS over Camry
RX over Highlander
NX over 2019 Rav4
LX over Land Cruiser
RC over Supra
[/QUOTE]

Well, I have to say it’s your money and your choice, but I happily spend my money on Lexus despite platform sharing because I think the style, luxury, amenities, performance, dealership experience etc. are worth the premium.

@Gecko , @Carmaker1 & @spwolf

Honestly I keep reading and watching all your debate in total silence because I was worried from 2014 I keep posting that there's something wrong in TMC intersection

I was the first to say that LEXUS has only 1 of 3 routes

Either full lineup as the German 3

Or Luxury sport lineup as Jaguar/Porsche/Maserati

Or the third will be another Acura/Infiniti/Lincoln/Cadillac

And then I believed and I still believing that the Luxury sport lineup model is the way they should go

They need to kill the CT and make the new corolla fit&finish/material as if the corolla is the new generation of the CT

Same need to be with the ES/Avalon, NX/RAV4 & RX/Highlander

Merging all the BOF they have under both Toyota & Lexus in a new brand and let it be LandCruiser brand

Stay faithful to the 3 main cars category with 3 bodies for every category and that's it sedan / Coupe / RWD based crossover instead of BOF

LS / LC / LX (full sized)
GS / GC / GX (executive)
IS / IC / IX (small)

And stuck to this formula forever , they will then gain a lot of momentum by pushing themselves to this model a niche but with affordable price

Now they are failed in the full lineup model and they are starting to be taking ***/USA luxury failed model

maiaramdan

@Gecko , @Carmaker1 & @spwolf

Honestly I keep reading and watching all your debate in total silence because I was worried from 2014 I keep posting that there's something wrong in TMC intersection

I was the first to say that LEXUS has only 1 of 3 routes

Either full lineup as the German 3

Or Luxury sport lineup as Jaguar/Porsche/Maserati

Or the third will be another Acura/Infiniti/Lincoln/Cadillac

And then I believed and I still believing that the Luxury sport lineup model is the way they should go

They need to kill the CT and make the new corolla fit&finish/material as if the corolla is the new generation of the CT

Same need to be with the ES/Avalon, NX/RAV4 & RX/Highlander

Merging all the BOF they have under both Toyota & Lexus in a new brand and let it be LandCruiser brand

Stay faithful to the 3 main cars category with 3 bodies for every category and that's it sedan / Coupe / RWD based crossover instead of BOF

LS / LC / LX (full sized)
GS / GC / GX (executive)
IS / IC / IX (small)

And stuck to this formula forever , they will then gain a lot of momentum by pushing themselves to this model a niche but with affordable price

Now they are failed in the full lineup model and they are starting to be taking ***/USA luxury failed model

Pretty off topic for this thread but...

I would argue that Cadillac belongs in the luxury sports lineup. The CTS, ATS, CT6, and their respective V models, all reviewed very well. Reviewers said that they were the best driving cars in their class. And yet the models that keep Cadillac afloat are the Escalade, the XTS, the XT5, all models which platform share with other GM products, while their sports sedans that all the reviewers absolutely love languish with negligible sales. I think if nothing else Cadillac proves that people look for a lot more in a luxury car than just a sporty drive.

Why should Lexus throw their one main competitive advantage away, their catalogue of proven Toyota platforms they can share with, just to please a small group of elitists who want Lexus to be another German manufacturer? How are Lexus going to come up with completely bespoke platforms for all their cars, somehow keep costs affordable like you want, and still make money by the end of it?

^^Why abandon a business model that worked and start clean sheet doing a copy of others? And never forget Lexus is a global brand, it needs every single product you wanted to kill to succeed in the global market. I want to see the LS and LC dead because at this point they are white elephant projects that didn't execute well to gain prestige to the brand. But it would be absolutely disastrous if they did what *I* think is reasonable.

Of course, we can always invent 'alternate history' lineups that pretend the Bubble never bursted. But that's completely irrelevant to the ES getting a digital rear view mirror. I don't see how we got there.

ssun30

^^Why abandon a business model that worked and start clean sheet doing a copy of others? And never forget Lexus is a global brand, it needs every single product you wanted to kill to succeed in the global market. I want to see the LS and LC dead because at this point they are white elephant projects that didn't execute well to gain prestige to the brand. But it would be absolutely disastrous if they did what *I* think is reasonable.

Of course, we can always invent 'alternate history' lineups that pretend the Bubble never bursted. But that's completely irrelevant to the ES getting a digital rear view mirror. I don't see how we got there.

Will close this up, but if the LS dies out of all the cars in their lineup, I actually cannot believe I would say this, but... well... Lexus would be dead to me. And they would be dead overall. Chasing sales (by abusing the ES and RX to death) won't save them forever when they have a sh*tty image as a luxury car company by killing off the one who started it all. By doing this you're no better than Acura. In fact, I would get a RLX Sport Hybrid to be spiteful.

I be very frank I never thought we would even FATHOM of talking about something like this. It's like saying Lamborghini losing the V12, BMW killing off the 3 series, Rolls-Royce killing off the Phantom or Mercedes-Benz never having an S-Class again. These are topics that never exist. The fact that just one of us even uttered something like this IS CRYSTAL CLEAR that Lexus is genuinely f*cking this up. Sorry. That's the sad truth.

Joaquin Ruhi

In the case of the outside rearview cameras in lieu of mirrors, part of the problem is that they are still illegal in the United States. The laws as written require an actual, physical mirror. Both Audi (whose outside cameras in the upcoming e-tron SUV are also banned here) and Lexus have petitioned NHTSA for a change in the laws, but they don't seem to be coming anytime soon.

Call me old fashioned, but I loathe the idea of having a car that doesn't have analog mirrors. I'm ok with the idea of having a complementary camera system, but not as the primary system.

F1 Silver Arrows

Will close this up, but if the LS dies out of all the cars in their lineup, I actually cannot believe I would say this, but... well... Lexus would be dead to me. And they would be dead overall. Chasing sales (by abusing the ES and RX to death) won't save them forever when they have a sh*tty image as a luxury car company by killing off the one who started it all. By doing this you're no better than Acura. In fact, I would get a RLX Sport Hybrid to be spiteful.

I be very frank I never thought we would even FATHOM of talking about something like this. It's like saying Lamborghini losing the V12, BMW killing off the 3 series, Rolls-Royce killing off the Phantom or Mercedes-Benz never having an S-Class again. These are topics that never exist. The fact that just one of us even uttered something like this IS CRYSTAL CLEAR that Lexus is genuinely f*cking this up. Sorry. That's the sad truth.

uh, why would LS die? And why is making a better ES and RX, abusing them?

maiaramdan

@Gecko , @Carmaker1 & @spwolf

Honestly I keep reading and watching all your debate in total silence because I was worried from 2014 I keep posting that there's something wrong in TMC intersection

I was the first to say that LEXUS has only 1 of 3 routes

Either full lineup as the German 3

Or Luxury sport lineup as Jaguar/Porsche/Maserati

Or the third will be another Acura/Infiniti/Lincoln/Cadillac

And then I believed and I still believing that the Luxury sport lineup model is the way they should go

They need to kill the CT and make the new corolla fit&finish/material as if the corolla is the new generation of the CT

Same need to be with the ES/Avalon, NX/RAV4 & RX/Highlander

Merging all the BOF they have under both Toyota & Lexus in a new brand and let it be LandCruiser brand

Stay faithful to the 3 main cars category with 3 bodies for every category and that's it sedan / Coupe / RWD based crossover instead of BOF

LS / LC / LX (full sized)
GS / GC / GX (executive)
IS / IC / IX (small)

And stuck to this formula forever , they will then gain a lot of momentum by pushing themselves to this model a niche but with affordable price

Now they are failed in the full lineup model and they are starting to be taking ***/USA luxury failed model

Lexus sells 12 vehicles worldwide, it is already a full lineup manufacturer... Rest of your post makes no sense, why would Lexus kill its successful vehicles and become small niche manufacturer?

F1 Silver Arrows

The fact that just one of us even uttered something like this IS CRYSTAL CLEAR that Lexus is genuinely f*cking this up. Sorry. That's the sad truth.

Here is hoping that the LS+ would become the true prestige program Lexus should have had in the first place.

Anyway here is the end of the digression.

spwolf

Lexus sells 12 vehicles worldwide, it is already a full lineup manufacturer... Rest of your post makes no sense, why would Lexus kill its successful vehicles and become small niche manufacturer?

Because in this current model they are becoming just Toyotas with good interior materials, and that's not what Lexus role when it was firstly created

Honestly now Lexus harm both Lexus and Toyota, they harm themselves by not seen as premium and just another Toyota, and they harmed Toyota by letting them not putting better material and fit and finish from afraid they will intersect with Lexus

Imagine the UX, NX, RX, ES as the top line of the CH-R, RAV4, Highlander, Avalon not design wise or even design wise I mean but fit and finish/ material with less 5k MSRP , Toyota will make and earthquake to the market

Now imagine the IS with lesser 2k to 5k with it's CUV and coupe variant and got more engine options until the F

That's what I am saying, keep Lexus totally away from Toyota even if you need to merge the RWD Toyotas inside Lexus lineup

So Lexus got full RWD lineup, Toyota got full FWD lineup, LandCruiser got full BOF lineup

Not a single intersection you are freely put AWD in any but it will not be always the same

This thread wandered so much I had to look and see what the original topic was!

I think right now it's just a bit of a mad dash to get everything on TNGA, coming out of the "lost decade". What they do after that is when you can start pulling your hair out, or not. I'm talking about the next LS refresh, the production LF-1, stuff like that.

BTW: a positive tech feature that's new in the LS500 that I noticed recently is that if the wipers are on for more than like 30 seconds the car automatically turns on the headlights. Just one of those nice little touches that let you know someone was thoughtful.

Agree we are far from the main topic and I apologise but honestly it frustrates me to hear from every single car reviewer that overall Avalon is the sporty and ES is the luxury, this wasn't suppose to happen, especially if they want the ES to take the place of the super handling GS

The first step for curing and correction is to admit there's a problem

An Automotive News story says that the camera side mirrors will be a 216,000 yen (about US$1,900) option on the new ES 300h version L in Japan.

Joaquin Ruhi

An Automotive News story says that the camera side mirrors will be a 216,000 yen (about US$1,900) option on the new ES 300h version L in Japan.

Reasonable enough in price, though I'm not impressed with the placement of the screens -- takes up a lot of the dash and clutters everything up. Thing is, I can't really imagine an alternative solution.

(Well actually I can, but it would involve transforming the entire instrument panel. Maybe once these digital monitors are no longer optional.)

I think the right solution for digital side mirrors is probably as part of a HUD, but those are too expensive to use widely right now.

Reminds me of those dinky little pods that Japanese cars had for blind spot monitoring back in the early 2000's when the tech was still new.

Regarding the screens I think we will see it well indicated within the dash from the next car , whatever which car it will be

Ian Schmidt

I think the right solution for digital side mirrors is probably as part of a HUD, but those are too expensive to use widely right now.

I don't know about using the HUD, as it would be visually distracting to see two moving images directly in your line of sight at all times. I'm picturing something more like the LF-FC setup, with segmented screens to left and right of the IP.

View attachment 3049

As a sidenote, boy oh boy do I still love this interior.

You're right, that's an even better place to put the mirror displays.

And that *is* still a great interior.