Lexus August 2018 Sales Report

Who cares about “thermal efficiency.”

You think the average driver—especially one that can afford these cars—gives a cent-pence to something that no one understands outside the Society of Automotive Engineers?

No.

I’ll be sure to tell the salesman that I’m not going to buy the Audi because it has less thermal efficiency than the Lexus...

Who cares about “thermal efficiency.”

You think the average driver—especially one that can afford these cars—gives a cent-pence to something that no one understands outside the Society of Automotive Engineers?

No.

I’ll be sure to tell the salesman that I’m not going to buy the Audi because it has less thermal efficiency than the Lexus...

Rhambler

Who cares about “thermal efficiency.” You think the average driver—especially one that can afford these cars—gives a cent-pence to something that no one understands outside the Society of Automotive Engineers? No. I’ll be sure to tell the salesman that I’m not going to buy the Audi because it has less thermal efficiency than the Lexus...

How is it even possible that you can be this dense? Seems like I spotted the one who hasn't had the car-buying experience before.

You don't seem to understand how important "thermal efficiency" is nowadays. It seems like if I tell you within terms of horsepower, then you'll be able to understand, because you probably don't comprehend anything further than that (no offense). Hey kiddo. Thermal efficiency is not only a huge benefit in terms of fuel efficiency, but horsepower too. That's how the new four cylinder that's in the 2018 Camry gained around 30 horsepower more than the 2017 Camry. It's because of "thermal efficiency".

That isn't enough for you? Absolute mad and modern race cars that grace this earth chase high levels of thermal efficiency. That's how they perform so well. If you manage to hit that sweet spot and beyond, that's what will give you the edge over your fellow competitors. Formula 1 and the World Endurance Championship are both examples of high-profile series that chase thermal efficiency (I can still list more racing series if you like to prove you wrong).

Think twice about what the hell you're saying. "Who cares about thermal efficiency"? The world does. It is one point within engineering and technology that is driving us forward among other things (and even then thermal efficiency is NOT the only big thing out there). Give me a break. You're welcome for the small engineering lesson by the way.

I appreciate you putting your thoughts in the forum, but your ignorance is shameful.

Rhambler

Who cares about “thermal efficiency.” You think the average driver—especially one that can afford these cars—gives a cent-pence to something that no one understands outside the Society of Automotive Engineers? No. I’ll be sure to tell the salesman that I’m not going to buy the Audi because it has less thermal efficiency than the Lexus...

How is it even possible that you can be this dense? Seems like I spotted the one who hasn't had the car-buying experience before.

You don't seem to understand how important "thermal efficiency" is nowadays. It seems like if I tell you within terms of horsepower, then you'll be able to understand, because you probably don't comprehend anything further than that (no offense). Hey kiddo. Thermal efficiency is not only a huge benefit in terms of fuel efficiency, but horsepower too. That's how the new four cylinder that's in the 2018 Camry gained around 30 horsepower more than the 2017 Camry. It's because of "thermal efficiency".

That isn't enough for you? Absolute mad and modern race cars that grace this earth chase high levels of thermal efficiency. That's how they perform so well. If you manage to hit that sweet spot and beyond, that's what will give you the edge over your fellow competitors. Formula 1 and the World Endurance Championship are both examples of high-profile series that chase thermal efficiency (I can still list more racing series if you like to prove you wrong).

Think twice about what the hell you're saying. "Who cares about thermal efficiency"? The world does. It is one point within engineering and technology that is driving us forward among other things (and even then thermal efficiency is NOT the only big thing out there). Give me a break. You're welcome for the small engineering lesson by the way.

I appreciate you putting your thoughts in the forum, but your ignorance is shameful.

Rhambler

Who cares about “thermal efficiency.” You think the average driver—especially one that can afford these cars—gives a cent-pence to something that no one understands outside the Society of Automotive Engineers? No. I’ll be sure to tell the salesman that I’m not going to buy the Audi because it has less thermal efficiency than the Lexus...

How is it even possible that you can be this dense? Seems like I spotted the one who hasn't had the car-buying experience before.

You don't seem to understand how important "thermal efficiency" is nowadays. It seems like if I tell you within terms of horsepower, then you'll be able to understand, because you probably don't comprehend anything further than that (no offense). Hey kiddo. Thermal efficiency is not only a huge benefit in terms of fuel efficiency, but horsepower too. That's how the new four cylinder that's in the 2018 Camry gained around 30 horsepower more than the 2017 Camry. It's because of "thermal efficiency".

That isn't enough for you? Absolute mad and modern race cars that grace this earth chase high levels of thermal efficiency. That's how they perform so well. If you manage to hit that sweet spot and beyond, that's what will give you the edge over your fellow competitors. Formula 1 and the World Endurance Championship are both examples of high-profile series that chase thermal efficiency (I can still list more racing series if you like to prove you wrong).

Think twice about what the hell you're saying. "Who cares about thermal efficiency"? The world does. It is one point within engineering and technology that is driving us forward among other things (and even then thermal efficiency is NOT the only big thing out there). Give me a break. You're welcome for the small engineering lesson by the way.

I appreciate you putting your thoughts in the forum, but your ignorance is shameful.

Rhambler

Toyota just doesn't know how to or refuses to develop a decent engine. The complete lack of effort in the Supra (they didn't even try) and the poor-performing 3.5L V6 tt (what were they smoking when they published the performance numbers?) says all that needs to be said.

Have you actually driven an LS500 with the TTV6? It's a *substantial* improvement over the outgoing V8 in terms of always-available power, and it gets better MPG doing it. That engine and the handling from the GA-L suspension put a smile on my face every time I drive the thing.

If what was on paper covered the experience of driving cars, we wouldn't need cars.

Rhambler

Toyota just doesn't know how to or refuses to develop a decent engine. The complete lack of effort in the Supra (they didn't even try) and the poor-performing 3.5L V6 tt (what were they smoking when they published the performance numbers?) says all that needs to be said.

Have you actually driven an LS500 with the TTV6? It's a *substantial* improvement over the outgoing V8 in terms of always-available power, and it gets better MPG doing it. That engine and the handling from the GA-L suspension put a smile on my face every time I drive the thing.

If what was on paper covered the experience of driving cars, we wouldn't need cars.

Rhambler

Toyota just doesn't know how to or refuses to develop a decent engine. The complete lack of effort in the Supra (they didn't even try) and the poor-performing 3.5L V6 tt (what were they smoking when they published the performance numbers?) says all that needs to be said.

Have you actually driven an LS500 with the TTV6? It's a *substantial* improvement over the outgoing V8 in terms of always-available power, and it gets better MPG doing it. That engine and the handling from the GA-L suspension put a smile on my face every time I drive the thing.

If what was on paper covered the experience of driving cars, we wouldn't need cars.

Can't really blame what he said. German Car Fans and Buyers are usually automotive ignorant. The only thing they know and care about is Badge Value.

Can't really blame what he said. German Car Fans and Buyers are usually automotive ignorant. The only thing they know and care about is Badge Value.

Can't really blame what he said. German Car Fans and Buyers are usually automotive ignorant. The only thing they know and care about is Badge Value.

Hey guys let's not get carried away. If Toyota's hybrid system is fitted with a solid state battery, would it improve its performance?


When it comes to the under 2.0l engine, is it going to be a 3 cylinder or a 4 cylinder? Is it going to be NA or turbo?

Hey guys let's not get carried away. If Toyota's hybrid system is fitted with a solid state battery, would it improve its performance?


When it comes to the under 2.0l engine, is it going to be a 3 cylinder or a 4 cylinder? Is it going to be NA or turbo?

Hey guys let's not get carried away. If Toyota's hybrid system is fitted with a solid state battery, would it improve its performance?


When it comes to the under 2.0l engine, is it going to be a 3 cylinder or a 4 cylinder? Is it going to be NA or turbo?

carguy420

Hey guys let's not get carried away. If Toyota's hybrid system is fitted with a solid state battery, would it improve its performance?

Unlikely, since solid state batteries have low power density, making them only suitable for BEVs. Toyota is more likely to stick with liquid electrolyte Li-ion for HVs/PHVs. It is now at 1kW/kg at package level, but there's still a lot of potential. 3kW/kg is achievable on liquid electrolyte Li-ion (the Chevy Malibu Hybrid already achieved that with the 5kW/kg Fujitsu cell).

carguy420

Hey guys let's not get carried away. If Toyota's hybrid system is fitted with a solid state battery, would it improve its performance?

Unlikely, since solid state batteries have low power density, making them only suitable for BEVs. Toyota is more likely to stick with liquid electrolyte Li-ion for HVs/PHVs. It is now at 1kW/kg at package level, but there's still a lot of potential. 3kW/kg is achievable on liquid electrolyte Li-ion (the Chevy Malibu Hybrid already achieved that with the 5kW/kg Fujitsu cell).

carguy420

Hey guys let's not get carried away. If Toyota's hybrid system is fitted with a solid state battery, would it improve its performance?

Unlikely, since solid state batteries have low power density, making them only suitable for BEVs. Toyota is more likely to stick with liquid electrolyte Li-ion for HVs/PHVs. It is now at 1kW/kg at package level, but there's still a lot of potential. 3kW/kg is achievable on liquid electrolyte Li-ion (the Chevy Malibu Hybrid already achieved that with the 5kW/kg Fujitsu cell).

ssun30

Unlikely, since solid state batteries have low power density, making them only suitable for BEVs. They are more likely to stick with liquid electrolyte Li-ion for HVs/PHVs. They are now at 1kW/kg at package level, but there's still a lot of potential. 3kW/kg is achievable on liquid electrolyte Li-ion (the Chevy Malibu Hybrid already achieved that with the 5kW/kg Fujitsu cell).

Is there any reason Toyota kept their batteries at a low power density? Is it a cost issue or safety issue?

ssun30

Unlikely, since solid state batteries have low power density, making them only suitable for BEVs. They are more likely to stick with liquid electrolyte Li-ion for HVs/PHVs. They are now at 1kW/kg at package level, but there's still a lot of potential. 3kW/kg is achievable on liquid electrolyte Li-ion (the Chevy Malibu Hybrid already achieved that with the 5kW/kg Fujitsu cell).

Is there any reason Toyota kept their batteries at a low power density? Is it a cost issue or safety issue?

ssun30

Unlikely, since solid state batteries have low power density, making them only suitable for BEVs. They are more likely to stick with liquid electrolyte Li-ion for HVs/PHVs. They are now at 1kW/kg at package level, but there's still a lot of potential. 3kW/kg is achievable on liquid electrolyte Li-ion (the Chevy Malibu Hybrid already achieved that with the 5kW/kg Fujitsu cell).

Is there any reason Toyota kept their batteries at a low power density? Is it a cost issue or safety issue?

www.thedrive.com/tech/15584/toyotas-solid-state-battery-lifespan-disappoints-face-still-more-challenges

I hadn't heard about this tech and its developments. A little googling found this article. Apparently, it's not the energy density, so much as the lifespan of the batteries. "He did note that customers would not buy an electric car if the battery pack needed to be replaced after three years." This quote leads me to believe that the SSBs tend to wear out quickly.

www.thedrive.com/tech/15584/toyotas-solid-state-battery-lifespan-disappoints-face-still-more-challenges

I hadn't heard about this tech and its developments. A little googling found this article. Apparently, it's not the energy density, so much as the lifespan of the batteries. "He did note that customers would not buy an electric car if the battery pack needed to be replaced after three years." This quote leads me to believe that the SSBs tend to wear out quickly.

www.thedrive.com/tech/15584/toyotas-solid-state-battery-lifespan-disappoints-face-still-more-challenges

I hadn't heard about this tech and its developments. A little googling found this article. Apparently, it's not the energy density, so much as the lifespan of the batteries. "He did note that customers would not buy an electric car if the battery pack needed to be replaced after three years." This quote leads me to believe that the SSBs tend to wear out quickly.

TheNerdyPotato

www.thedrive.com/tech/15584/toyotas-solid-state-battery-lifespan-disappoints-face-still-more-challenges

I hadn't heard about this tech and its developments. A little googling found this article. Apparently, it's not the energy density, so much as the lifespan of the batteries. "He did note that customers would not buy an electric car if the battery pack needed to be replaced after three years." This quote leads me to believe that the SSBs tend to wear out quickly.

It will be sometime before Toyota truly make high performance hybrids for the public. I personally hope Gazoo Racing churns out some badass vehicles in the future.

TheNerdyPotato

www.thedrive.com/tech/15584/toyotas-solid-state-battery-lifespan-disappoints-face-still-more-challenges

I hadn't heard about this tech and its developments. A little googling found this article. Apparently, it's not the energy density, so much as the lifespan of the batteries. "He did note that customers would not buy an electric car if the battery pack needed to be replaced after three years." This quote leads me to believe that the SSBs tend to wear out quickly.

It will be sometime before Toyota truly make high performance hybrids for the public. I personally hope Gazoo Racing churns out some badass vehicles in the future.

TheNerdyPotato

www.thedrive.com/tech/15584/toyotas-solid-state-battery-lifespan-disappoints-face-still-more-challenges

I hadn't heard about this tech and its developments. A little googling found this article. Apparently, it's not the energy density, so much as the lifespan of the batteries. "He did note that customers would not buy an electric car if the battery pack needed to be replaced after three years." This quote leads me to believe that the SSBs tend to wear out quickly.

It will be sometime before Toyota truly make high performance hybrids for the public. I personally hope Gazoo Racing churns out some badass vehicles in the future.

Anyone have any ideas about what engine the next generation Yaris/Vios is going to have?

Anyone have any ideas about what engine the next generation Yaris/Vios is going to have?

Anyone have any ideas about what engine the next generation Yaris/Vios is going to have?

TheNerdyPotato

www.thedrive.com/tech/15584/toyotas-solid-state-battery-lifespan-disappoints-face-still-more-challenges

I hadn't heard about this tech and its developments. A little googling found this article. Apparently, it's not the energy density, so much as the lifespan of the batteries. "He did note that customers would not buy an electric car if the battery pack needed to be replaced after three years." This quote leads me to believe that the SSBs tend to wear out quickly.

That article was a clickbait amongst all the anti-Toyota pro-Tesla press which was prevalent during that time. BBC reported it in a more neutral tone and the words used were like "Toyota wants a battery that could last well beyond 150,000km". The "three years" comment was not referring to the SSBs, but some sloppy Li-ion batteries made by some Chinese OEMs. Overall, they are making solid (no pun intended) progress in that front, although just like any new technology, they won't completely switch to it on Day One.

Low power density is an inherent characteristic of SSBs, since the electrodes have high impedence and thus low charge flux across them. You can Google it; it is shown clearly on a research funded by Toyota that, SSBs will have at most 2kW/L of volumetric power density, which is well below what regular Li-ion batteries can achieve.

carguy420

Is there any reason Toyota kept their batteries at a low power density? Is it a cost issue or safety issue?

We don't really know what metric Toyota uses for battery power. Some manufacturers quote 15-second burst maximum, some 30-second burst maximum, and it can even be sustained output. These values can be wildly different. It could also be that the battery pack itself is not the limit, but rather it is the inverter. The true specs of the batteries are their trade secret, so we can only speculate. The 500h system has a 45kg pack with 45kW, making it roughly 1kW/kg, that's the only number accessible on our part.

What we do know is that the TS050 LMP1 car has a battery with more than 368kW, while the car itself only weighs 870kg (again, specific numbers of the battery is a trade secret). So clearly TMC should have a few cards up its sleeves. Maybe we will see the true potential of their batteries when they release their first mass-produced THS-R sports car.