First 2019 Lexus ES Sedan Rolls Off Production Line in Kentucky

Gecko

But to your original point, I can tell you that in North America, if ES did not exist, GS would probably sell reliably 2k-4k units per month - it is the car consumers actually want more. I stand by that 100%.

I completely disagree with GS selling ES volume, it is $10k more expensive vehicle, it would not sell anywhere as close as 6x more than today.

There is no conspiracy against GS. It just got old and outdated and it seems to be too expensive for Lexus to produce so it does not make sense for them to push it when ES performs better ($10k incentives or lease deals like Q50 has).

Again, proof is in the pudding. GS internationally has pretty good powertrains, as we can see with NX and RX selling like crazy.

Gecko

But to your original point, I can tell you that in North America, if ES did not exist, GS would probably sell reliably 2k-4k units per month - it is the car consumers actually want more. I stand by that 100%.

I completely disagree with GS selling ES volume, it is $10k more expensive vehicle, it would not sell anywhere as close as 6x more than today.

There is no conspiracy against GS. It just got old and outdated and it seems to be too expensive for Lexus to produce so it does not make sense for them to push it when ES performs better ($10k incentives or lease deals like Q50 has).

Again, proof is in the pudding. GS internationally has pretty good powertrains, as we can see with NX and RX selling like crazy.

Gecko

But to your original point, I can tell you that in North America, if ES did not exist, GS would probably sell reliably 2k-4k units per month - it is the car consumers actually want more. I stand by that 100%.

I completely disagree with GS selling ES volume, it is $10k more expensive vehicle, it would not sell anywhere as close as 6x more than today.

There is no conspiracy against GS. It just got old and outdated and it seems to be too expensive for Lexus to produce so it does not make sense for them to push it when ES performs better ($10k incentives or lease deals like Q50 has).

Again, proof is in the pudding. GS internationally has pretty good powertrains, as we can see with NX and RX selling like crazy.

spwolf

I completely disagree with GS selling ES volume, it is $10k more expensive vehicle, it would not sell anywhere as close as 6x more than today.

.

In its best years the GS sold 30k plus units here... the best year of the 4GS was right under 24k units its first year. Ironcially worldwide global GS sales were never better.

I think if Lexus FOCUSED on the GS if they didn't have an ES things would be totally different. Alas Lexus always had the ES and the ES has always sold like gangbusters since 1992 after the ES 250...

spwolf

I completely disagree with GS selling ES volume, it is $10k more expensive vehicle, it would not sell anywhere as close as 6x more than today.

.

In its best years the GS sold 30k plus units here... the best year of the 4GS was right under 24k units its first year. Ironcially worldwide global GS sales were never better.

I think if Lexus FOCUSED on the GS if they didn't have an ES things would be totally different. Alas Lexus always had the ES and the ES has always sold like gangbusters since 1992 after the ES 250...

spwolf

I completely disagree with GS selling ES volume, it is $10k more expensive vehicle, it would not sell anywhere as close as 6x more than today.

.

In its best years the GS sold 30k plus units here... the best year of the 4GS was right under 24k units its first year. Ironcially worldwide global GS sales were never better.

I think if Lexus FOCUSED on the GS if they didn't have an ES things would be totally different. Alas Lexus always had the ES and the ES has always sold like gangbusters since 1992 after the ES 250...

A WardsAuto report from the 7ES California unveiling includes these interesting insights and bits of information:

...Although the U.S. is the No.1 Lexus market worldwide with sales of 305,132 vehicles in 2017, more ES sedans are sold in China than anywhere else. Last year, ES deliveries totaled 60,000 units there, about 10,000 more than in the U.S., accounting for 45% of the 132,000 Lexus vehicles sold in China...

Also available is a new-generation hybrid powertrain, expected to increase penetration from the current 10% as Lexus continues with an affordable-pricing strategy that “takes some of the premium out” of its hybrid models. That game plan has worked to boost hybrid sales of the RX 33.3% and NX 167.8% in the first quarter, according to Wards Intelligence data...

The new model also represents the latest volley in an effort to lower the average age of Lexus owners. Currently, the average age of ES buyers is 67.

“With all our products we try to focus on that,” (Lexus USA vice-president of marketing Cooper) Ericksen says, pointing to the addition of F Sport packages on several models in the lineup. “Every car that we introduce, we’re trying to have a version that is more appealing to a younger customer. We feel based on the styling, technology and driving dynamics of that car that it’s going to bring a little bit of a new customer into the ES – and that is going to be a younger customer to the ES line”

Take rates on F Sport models reach as high as 95% on the RC coupe, Ericksen says. About 40% of IS sedan buyers opt for the F Sport, and initial estimates are as many as 20% of ES sales could go to the performance model...

The changeover to the new model should slow ES sales this year to about 45,000, he says, but volume is expected to bounce back in 2019 with full-year availability of the new model. Through the first quarter, ES sales totaled 9,263 units, down 2.6% from year-ago. Inventories of the outgoing V-6 model stood at 125 days’ supply at the end of March...

A WardsAuto report from the 7ES California unveiling includes these interesting insights and bits of information:

...Although the U.S. is the No.1 Lexus market worldwide with sales of 305,132 vehicles in 2017, more ES sedans are sold in China than anywhere else. Last year, ES deliveries totaled 60,000 units there, about 10,000 more than in the U.S., accounting for 45% of the 132,000 Lexus vehicles sold in China...

Also available is a new-generation hybrid powertrain, expected to increase penetration from the current 10% as Lexus continues with an affordable-pricing strategy that “takes some of the premium out” of its hybrid models. That game plan has worked to boost hybrid sales of the RX 33.3% and NX 167.8% in the first quarter, according to Wards Intelligence data...

The new model also represents the latest volley in an effort to lower the average age of Lexus owners. Currently, the average age of ES buyers is 67.

“With all our products we try to focus on that,” (Lexus USA vice-president of marketing Cooper) Ericksen says, pointing to the addition of F Sport packages on several models in the lineup. “Every car that we introduce, we’re trying to have a version that is more appealing to a younger customer. We feel based on the styling, technology and driving dynamics of that car that it’s going to bring a little bit of a new customer into the ES – and that is going to be a younger customer to the ES line”

Take rates on F Sport models reach as high as 95% on the RC coupe, Ericksen says. About 40% of IS sedan buyers opt for the F Sport, and initial estimates are as many as 20% of ES sales could go to the performance model...

The changeover to the new model should slow ES sales this year to about 45,000, he says, but volume is expected to bounce back in 2019 with full-year availability of the new model. Through the first quarter, ES sales totaled 9,263 units, down 2.6% from year-ago. Inventories of the outgoing V-6 model stood at 125 days’ supply at the end of March...

A WardsAuto report from the 7ES California unveiling includes these interesting insights and bits of information:

...Although the U.S. is the No.1 Lexus market worldwide with sales of 305,132 vehicles in 2017, more ES sedans are sold in China than anywhere else. Last year, ES deliveries totaled 60,000 units there, about 10,000 more than in the U.S., accounting for 45% of the 132,000 Lexus vehicles sold in China...

Also available is a new-generation hybrid powertrain, expected to increase penetration from the current 10% as Lexus continues with an affordable-pricing strategy that “takes some of the premium out” of its hybrid models. That game plan has worked to boost hybrid sales of the RX 33.3% and NX 167.8% in the first quarter, according to Wards Intelligence data...

The new model also represents the latest volley in an effort to lower the average age of Lexus owners. Currently, the average age of ES buyers is 67.

“With all our products we try to focus on that,” (Lexus USA vice-president of marketing Cooper) Ericksen says, pointing to the addition of F Sport packages on several models in the lineup. “Every car that we introduce, we’re trying to have a version that is more appealing to a younger customer. We feel based on the styling, technology and driving dynamics of that car that it’s going to bring a little bit of a new customer into the ES – and that is going to be a younger customer to the ES line”

Take rates on F Sport models reach as high as 95% on the RC coupe, Ericksen says. About 40% of IS sedan buyers opt for the F Sport, and initial estimates are as many as 20% of ES sales could go to the performance model...

The changeover to the new model should slow ES sales this year to about 45,000, he says, but volume is expected to bounce back in 2019 with full-year availability of the new model. Through the first quarter, ES sales totaled 9,263 units, down 2.6% from year-ago. Inventories of the outgoing V-6 model stood at 125 days’ supply at the end of March...

It is also completely not true with them not doing enough for GS... I mean we had GS 2.0t, GS 300, GS350, GS450h, RWD or AWD.

mikeavelli

In its best years the GS sold 30k plus units here... the best year of the 4GS was right under 24k units its first year. Ironcially worldwide global GS sales were never better.

I think if Lexus FOCUSED on the GS if they didn't have an ES things would be totally different. Alas Lexus always had the ES and the ES has always sold like gangbusters since 1992 after the ES 250...

I understand what you mean but lets look at it from this perspective - they have actually always put a lot more effort into GS, IS and LS than ES... ES is best selling vehicle and usually it is treated as a mix between cash cow and unwanted stepchild.

While ES350 has to do with Camry engine, GS always had engine with D4S, had 2.0t, had both RWD and AWD versions... also had GS300h and GS450h hybrid options.

Pricing difference is too big though - if new ES stays at similar price, then it becomes unbeatable value... GS has to change its nature completely because for $10k at current prices, it simply cant offer $10k more... for Europe and rest of the world, pricing difference is even worse due to various taxing reasons, I am pretty sure that here in eastern europe, price difference between GS300h and ES300h "will be" around $20-30k. And since ES sells well everywhere, it will sell over 200k per year, which means that economies of scale work in its favour - so it can be incentivised and they can still make money.

It is also completely not true with them not doing enough for GS... I mean we had GS 2.0t, GS 300, GS350, GS450h, RWD or AWD.

mikeavelli

In its best years the GS sold 30k plus units here... the best year of the 4GS was right under 24k units its first year. Ironcially worldwide global GS sales were never better.

I think if Lexus FOCUSED on the GS if they didn't have an ES things would be totally different. Alas Lexus always had the ES and the ES has always sold like gangbusters since 1992 after the ES 250...

I understand what you mean but lets look at it from this perspective - they have actually always put a lot more effort into GS, IS and LS than ES... ES is best selling vehicle and usually it is treated as a mix between cash cow and unwanted stepchild.

While ES350 has to do with Camry engine, GS always had engine with D4S, had 2.0t, had both RWD and AWD versions... also had GS300h and GS450h hybrid options.

Pricing difference is too big though - if new ES stays at similar price, then it becomes unbeatable value... GS has to change its nature completely because for $10k at current prices, it simply cant offer $10k more... for Europe and rest of the world, pricing difference is even worse due to various taxing reasons, I am pretty sure that here in eastern europe, price difference between GS300h and ES300h "will be" around $20-30k. And since ES sells well everywhere, it will sell over 200k per year, which means that economies of scale work in its favour - so it can be incentivised and they can still make money.

It is also completely not true with them not doing enough for GS... I mean we had GS 2.0t, GS 300, GS350, GS450h, RWD or AWD.

mikeavelli

In its best years the GS sold 30k plus units here... the best year of the 4GS was right under 24k units its first year. Ironcially worldwide global GS sales were never better.

I think if Lexus FOCUSED on the GS if they didn't have an ES things would be totally different. Alas Lexus always had the ES and the ES has always sold like gangbusters since 1992 after the ES 250...

I understand what you mean but lets look at it from this perspective - they have actually always put a lot more effort into GS, IS and LS than ES... ES is best selling vehicle and usually it is treated as a mix between cash cow and unwanted stepchild.

While ES350 has to do with Camry engine, GS always had engine with D4S, had 2.0t, had both RWD and AWD versions... also had GS300h and GS450h hybrid options.

Pricing difference is too big though - if new ES stays at similar price, then it becomes unbeatable value... GS has to change its nature completely because for $10k at current prices, it simply cant offer $10k more... for Europe and rest of the world, pricing difference is even worse due to various taxing reasons, I am pretty sure that here in eastern europe, price difference between GS300h and ES300h "will be" around $20-30k. And since ES sells well everywhere, it will sell over 200k per year, which means that economies of scale work in its favour - so it can be incentivised and they can still make money.

spwolf

It is also completely not true with them not doing enough for GS... I mean we had GS 2.0t, GS 300, GS350, GS450h, RWD or AWD.

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

spwolf

It is also completely not true with them not doing enough for GS... I mean we had GS 2.0t, GS 300, GS350, GS450h, RWD or AWD.

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

spwolf

It is also completely not true with them not doing enough for GS... I mean we had GS 2.0t, GS 300, GS350, GS450h, RWD or AWD.

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

After watching the new video showing the f-sport version in pure white, I have to say, it certainly is a really desirable car. The exterior design is spot-on. However, I still stand by my opinion, that if they want a chance at success here in Europe, they'll need to introduce a more powerful hybrid powertrain.

Would building the 2 litre turbo into a new hybrid engine make sense? The system could develop around 300 hp and the petrol engine could be tuned more towards fuel efficiency while they could use a Li-Ion battery to drive the electric motors.

After watching the new video showing the f-sport version in pure white, I have to say, it certainly is a really desirable car. The exterior design is spot-on. However, I still stand by my opinion, that if they want a chance at success here in Europe, they'll need to introduce a more powerful hybrid powertrain.

Would building the 2 litre turbo into a new hybrid engine make sense? The system could develop around 300 hp and the petrol engine could be tuned more towards fuel efficiency while they could use a Li-Ion battery to drive the electric motors.

After watching the new video showing the f-sport version in pure white, I have to say, it certainly is a really desirable car. The exterior design is spot-on. However, I still stand by my opinion, that if they want a chance at success here in Europe, they'll need to introduce a more powerful hybrid powertrain.

Would building the 2 litre turbo into a new hybrid engine make sense? The system could develop around 300 hp and the petrol engine could be tuned more towards fuel efficiency while they could use a Li-Ion battery to drive the electric motors.

Gecko

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

Hey Hey Hey, Let's not forget about the GS430. I still have my 2006 GS430. My wife drives it everyday, absolutely loves it, still receives compliments on it (loaded black on black), and that V8 absolutely flies on that platform. The engine still sounds new.

Gecko

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

Hey Hey Hey, Let's not forget about the GS430. I still have my 2006 GS430. My wife drives it everyday, absolutely loves it, still receives compliments on it (loaded black on black), and that V8 absolutely flies on that platform. The engine still sounds new.

Gecko

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

Hey Hey Hey, Let's not forget about the GS430. I still have my 2006 GS430. My wife drives it everyday, absolutely loves it, still receives compliments on it (loaded black on black), and that V8 absolutely flies on that platform. The engine still sounds new.

Gecko

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

And yet ES350 with Camry engine and a lot less hp sold like hot cakes... so did RX... so did NX with 2.0t, such subpar engine.

Only GS has problem selling with better version of same engines?

So once again, another proof that they invested a lot of money into GS and did not get return. Unlike with ES, which got least amount of money invested into, poorer version of those already poor engines and then sells like hot cakes.

Gecko

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

And yet ES350 with Camry engine and a lot less hp sold like hot cakes... so did RX... so did NX with 2.0t, such subpar engine.

Only GS has problem selling with better version of same engines?

So once again, another proof that they invested a lot of money into GS and did not get return. Unlike with ES, which got least amount of money invested into, poorer version of those already poor engines and then sells like hot cakes.

Gecko

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

And yet ES350 with Camry engine and a lot less hp sold like hot cakes... so did RX... so did NX with 2.0t, such subpar engine.

Only GS has problem selling with better version of same engines?

So once again, another proof that they invested a lot of money into GS and did not get return. Unlike with ES, which got least amount of money invested into, poorer version of those already poor engines and then sells like hot cakes.

KOHIPEET

After watching the new video showing the f-sport version in pure white, I have to say, it certainly is a really desirable car. The exterior design is spot-on. However, I still stand by my opinion, that if they want a chance at success here in Europe, they'll need to introduce a more powerful hybrid powertrain.

Would building the 2 litre turbo into a new hybrid engine make sense? The system could develop around 300 hp and the petrol engine could be tuned more towards fuel efficiency while they could use a Li-Ion battery to drive the electric motors.

I dont think they will do that due to the cost reasons. 450h was simply too expensive... but their future powertrain lineup certainly shows another all-new engine above 300h and below 500h.

Maybe if they can spread the cost across larger lineup, such as Highlander and RX, they can also make another "affordable" hybrid engine with more than 215hp?

KOHIPEET

After watching the new video showing the f-sport version in pure white, I have to say, it certainly is a really desirable car. The exterior design is spot-on. However, I still stand by my opinion, that if they want a chance at success here in Europe, they'll need to introduce a more powerful hybrid powertrain.

Would building the 2 litre turbo into a new hybrid engine make sense? The system could develop around 300 hp and the petrol engine could be tuned more towards fuel efficiency while they could use a Li-Ion battery to drive the electric motors.

I dont think they will do that due to the cost reasons. 450h was simply too expensive... but their future powertrain lineup certainly shows another all-new engine above 300h and below 500h.

Maybe if they can spread the cost across larger lineup, such as Highlander and RX, they can also make another "affordable" hybrid engine with more than 215hp?

KOHIPEET

After watching the new video showing the f-sport version in pure white, I have to say, it certainly is a really desirable car. The exterior design is spot-on. However, I still stand by my opinion, that if they want a chance at success here in Europe, they'll need to introduce a more powerful hybrid powertrain.

Would building the 2 litre turbo into a new hybrid engine make sense? The system could develop around 300 hp and the petrol engine could be tuned more towards fuel efficiency while they could use a Li-Ion battery to drive the electric motors.

I dont think they will do that due to the cost reasons. 450h was simply too expensive... but their future powertrain lineup certainly shows another all-new engine above 300h and below 500h.

Maybe if they can spread the cost across larger lineup, such as Highlander and RX, they can also make another "affordable" hybrid engine with more than 215hp?

Gecko

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

So on point, thank you! There was no reason to allow the ES gradually step on the toes of larger/higher offerings generation-to-generation nor be so lazy with keeping the GS up to date. The New N cars were limited in ways, that the public saw no motivation to upgrade post refresh. Plus, new E-class and 5er surely don't help. Sales were reasonable, until facelift launched during the last 8 weeks of 2015 and 2016 a steep decline.

They are having sour grapes about the low GS sales during 2016 and throwing a fit about it, when they didn't even put in enough effort. If you cannot execute midcycle changes well and maintain relevance, then don't expect any ******g sales! They knew this and want to express manufactured outrage, then cancel it. A self-fulfilling prophecy.

As you said, the ES has come out the way it is, as late 2015 and early 2016 would be when much of the development programme was solidifying (ability to react limited). Styling was set well over 2 years ago, locked in by mid-2016.

They weren't expecting this to be sole midsizer, so likely F-Sport and expansion to other markets was always in the cards.

RichieRich

Hey Hey Hey, Let's not forget about the GS430. I still have my 2006 GS430. My wife drives it everyday, absolutely loves it, still receives compliments on it (loaded black on black), and that V8 absolutely flies on that platform. The engine still sounds new.

The GS430 has no relevance to the incumbent generation GS and discussion related to its demise. Otherwise, GS460 and GS400 would be also brought up.

Gecko

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

So on point, thank you! There was no reason to allow the ES gradually step on the toes of larger/higher offerings generation-to-generation nor be so lazy with keeping the GS up to date. The New N cars were limited in ways, that the public saw no motivation to upgrade post refresh. Plus, new E-class and 5er surely don't help. Sales were reasonable, until facelift launched during the last 8 weeks of 2015 and 2016 a steep decline.

They are having sour grapes about the low GS sales during 2016 and throwing a fit about it, when they didn't even put in enough effort. If you cannot execute midcycle changes well and maintain relevance, then don't expect any ******g sales! They knew this and want to express manufactured outrage, then cancel it. A self-fulfilling prophecy.

As you said, the ES has come out the way it is, as late 2015 and early 2016 would be when much of the development programme was solidifying (ability to react limited). Styling was set well over 2 years ago, locked in by mid-2016.

They weren't expecting this to be sole midsizer, so likely F-Sport and expansion to other markets was always in the cards.

RichieRich

Hey Hey Hey, Let's not forget about the GS430. I still have my 2006 GS430. My wife drives it everyday, absolutely loves it, still receives compliments on it (loaded black on black), and that V8 absolutely flies on that platform. The engine still sounds new.

The GS430 has no relevance to the incumbent generation GS and discussion related to its demise. Otherwise, GS460 and GS400 would be also brought up.

Gecko

GS200t/GS 300: Introduced too late and after a massive ad campaign making fun of competitors for offering base four cylinder engines. Not cheap enough compared to GS 350 to be a real value player. Generally considered not worth the money. 2.0T is not up to par with competitors.

GS 300h: I have no real context for this car - can't comment.

GS 350: Carryover engine from 2007, lack of up-to-date technology, 2016 refresh was butchered, interior has not kept pace with rivals

GS 450h: Never once any advertising/marketing support from Lexus USA, has always been special order only, F-Sport was added late term

GS F: Shows up 4 years too late and 150 horsepower short.

The best thing this car ever had going for it was a great platform. That's really it.

So on point, thank you! There was no reason to allow the ES gradually step on the toes of larger/higher offerings generation-to-generation nor be so lazy with keeping the GS up to date. The New N cars were limited in ways, that the public saw no motivation to upgrade post refresh. Plus, new E-class and 5er surely don't help. Sales were reasonable, until facelift launched during the last 8 weeks of 2015 and 2016 a steep decline.

They are having sour grapes about the low GS sales during 2016 and throwing a fit about it, when they didn't even put in enough effort. If you cannot execute midcycle changes well and maintain relevance, then don't expect any ******g sales! They knew this and want to express manufactured outrage, then cancel it. A self-fulfilling prophecy.

As you said, the ES has come out the way it is, as late 2015 and early 2016 would be when much of the development programme was solidifying (ability to react limited). Styling was set well over 2 years ago, locked in by mid-2016.

They weren't expecting this to be sole midsizer, so likely F-Sport and expansion to other markets was always in the cards.

RichieRich

Hey Hey Hey, Let's not forget about the GS430. I still have my 2006 GS430. My wife drives it everyday, absolutely loves it, still receives compliments on it (loaded black on black), and that V8 absolutely flies on that platform. The engine still sounds new.

The GS430 has no relevance to the incumbent generation GS and discussion related to its demise. Otherwise, GS460 and GS400 would be also brought up.