Next-Generation Lexus IS Sedan to Grow in Size?

Posted by Kevin on July 23rd, 2018

According to Japanese magazine Mag-X, the next-generation Lexus IS will debut in 2020 as a much larger sedan, with dimensions closer to the GS than the current IS model.

Using the numbers from the article, let’s make a comparison table with the IS old & new, the GS sedan, and the LC coupe for good measure:

Model Wheelbase Length Width Height
New IS 2870 mm (113 in) 4730 mm (186.2 in) 1815 mm (71.5 in) 1425 mm (56.1 in)
Current IS 2,800 mm (110.2 in) 4,681 mm (184.3 in) 1,810 mm (71.3 in) 1,430 mm (56.3 in)
Current GS 2,850 mm (112.2 in) 4,879 mm (192.1 in) 1,840 mm (72.4 in) 1,455 mm (57.3 in)
Current LC 2,870 mm (113.0 in) 4,760 mm (187.4 in) 1,920 mm (75.6 in) 1,345 mm (53.0 in)

If the Mag-X dimensions are correct, the next-gen IS could have a longer wheelbase and shorter overall length than the GS sedan. This discrepancy could mean shorter front & rear overhangs due to the adoption of the GA-L platform from the LC & LS.

The article suggests a new 2.4L four-cylinder turbo and a 2.5L hybrid as engine options, but there’s no mention of the 400+ horsepower IS 450 that was rumored a couple weeks back. Mag-X also throws in an IS F with the same 4.0L twin-turbo V8 that’s supposed to power the LC F coupe.

Here’s the full page from Mag-X, if anyone wants to translate the article in the comments:

Lexus IS Mag-X Full Page

JapanLexus IS: Third GenerationRumors
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Comments
I
Levi
Rhambler
The 1 series, A3, etc. all bring new excitement to the market.
4 cylinder FWD excitement with Dacia interior?
Check km77. Even the prius is more agile than those overpriced pretenders!
I
Levi
Rhambler
The 1 series, A3, etc. all bring new excitement to the market.
4 cylinder FWD excitement with Dacia interior?
Check km77. Even the prius is more agile than those overpriced pretenders!
L
I hope Lexus/Toyota's BEVs will have acceleration figures like the Bolt rather than the Leaf, the Leaf is really slow, I reckon it has no liquid battery cooling. But even at 10 sec 0-100 km/h, the Leaf feels faster than 8 sec from ICEVs. That is why TMC hybrids feel fast, even if on paper they are not.
L
I hope Lexus/Toyota's BEVs will have acceleration figures like the Bolt rather than the Leaf, the Leaf is really slow, I reckon it has no liquid battery cooling. But even at 10 sec 0-100 km/h, the Leaf feels faster than 8 sec from ICEVs. That is why TMC hybrids feel fast, even if on paper they are not.
L
I hope Lexus/Toyota's BEVs will have acceleration figures like the Bolt rather than the Leaf, the Leaf is really slow, I reckon it has no liquid battery cooling. But even at 10 sec 0-100 km/h, the Leaf feels faster than 8 sec from ICEVs. That is why TMC hybrids feel fast, even if on paper they are not.
maiaramdan
@Levi
I think Toyota with Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Honda, Subaru, Mazda are working a lot on the solid state and there was rumors that the first product solid state units may appear at 2020 or 2021 at max, so with the solid state you will have a game changer in main 3 cases
1) charging time
2) safety
3) power usage
maiaramdan
@Levi
I think Toyota with Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Honda, Subaru, Mazda are working a lot on the solid state and there was rumors that the first product solid state units may appear at 2020 or 2021 at max, so with the solid state you will have a game changer in main 3 cases
1) charging time
2) safety
3) power usage
maiaramdan
@Levi
I think Toyota with Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Honda, Subaru, Mazda are working a lot on the solid state and there was rumors that the first product solid state units may appear at 2020 or 2021 at max, so with the solid state you will have a game changer in main 3 cases
1) charging time
2) safety
3) power usage
C
ssun30
In a more general sense, variety is the result of a lack of optimization. The history of mankind has always been a history of optimization. Just like natural selection, inefficient artificial creations are eliminated or marginalized.

There is ONLY ONE efficient way to make cars, so as we become better and better at optimizing car designs, ineffcient designs get eliminated by the free market. This is already evident from the reduction of ICE variety: V4, I5, V10, V16, H6, and rotaries are heading to their graves; I6, V8, and V12 will follow a decade later, because the ONLY efficient ICE layout is I4 (I3 and V6 will have their niche, but that does not mean they are more efficient).

Similarly, sedans and wagons are doomed because crossovers are objectively more efficient as daily commuters. Minivans will stay because they are objectively the best people mover; pick-up trucks will stay because they are objectively the best cargo hauler. Sedan will basically be competing against coupe (also dying) for a tiny slice of the sportscar market, because apparently there will be more and more performance crossovers.

In the past we have all kinds of smartphone designs also with different OS, network, and internal components. Today all smartphones look the same, use the same component, and are compatible with all types of network. This is because that's the ONLY efficient way to build smartphones. All passenger aircraft are twin-engine, subsonic, and single decked, because that's the ONLY efficient way to build a passenger aircraft.

We as a civilization is becoming better and better at optimizing things, so variety will become a thing of the past.
So in the future a 600hp sports sedan is going to have a 4 cylinder pile? Screw that!
C
ssun30
In a more general sense, variety is the result of a lack of optimization. The history of mankind has always been a history of optimization. Just like natural selection, inefficient artificial creations are eliminated or marginalized.

There is ONLY ONE efficient way to make cars, so as we become better and better at optimizing car designs, ineffcient designs get eliminated by the free market. This is already evident from the reduction of ICE variety: V4, I5, V10, V16, H6, and rotaries are heading to their graves; I6, V8, and V12 will follow a decade later, because the ONLY efficient ICE layout is I4 (I3 and V6 will have their niche, but that does not mean they are more efficient).

Similarly, sedans and wagons are doomed because crossovers are objectively more efficient as daily commuters. Minivans will stay because they are objectively the best people mover; pick-up trucks will stay because they are objectively the best cargo hauler. Sedan will basically be competing against coupe (also dying) for a tiny slice of the sportscar market, because apparently there will be more and more performance crossovers.

In the past we have all kinds of smartphone designs also with different OS, network, and internal components. Today all smartphones look the same, use the same component, and are compatible with all types of network. This is because that's the ONLY efficient way to build smartphones. All passenger aircraft are twin-engine, subsonic, and single decked, because that's the ONLY efficient way to build a passenger aircraft.

We as a civilization is becoming better and better at optimizing things, so variety will become a thing of the past.
So in the future a 600hp sports sedan is going to have a 4 cylinder pile? Screw that!
C
ssun30
In a more general sense, variety is the result of a lack of optimization. The history of mankind has always been a history of optimization. Just like natural selection, inefficient artificial creations are eliminated or marginalized.

There is ONLY ONE efficient way to make cars, so as we become better and better at optimizing car designs, ineffcient designs get eliminated by the free market. This is already evident from the reduction of ICE variety: V4, I5, V10, V16, H6, and rotaries are heading to their graves; I6, V8, and V12 will follow a decade later, because the ONLY efficient ICE layout is I4 (I3 and V6 will have their niche, but that does not mean they are more efficient).

Similarly, sedans and wagons are doomed because crossovers are objectively more efficient as daily commuters. Minivans will stay because they are objectively the best people mover; pick-up trucks will stay because they are objectively the best cargo hauler. Sedan will basically be competing against coupe (also dying) for a tiny slice of the sportscar market, because apparently there will be more and more performance crossovers.

In the past we have all kinds of smartphone designs also with different OS, network, and internal components. Today all smartphones look the same, use the same component, and are compatible with all types of network. This is because that's the ONLY efficient way to build smartphones. All passenger aircraft are twin-engine, subsonic, and single decked, because that's the ONLY efficient way to build a passenger aircraft.

We as a civilization is becoming better and better at optimizing things, so variety will become a thing of the past.
So in the future a 600hp sports sedan is going to have a 4 cylinder pile? Screw that!
L
In @ssun30 comment, 'efficient' means 'cheap'. If 4 cylinders were so great, AMG's 4.0l would not be a V8 but 4.0l I4, like the old Cummins BT4, only gasoline. As a range extender, there are far better engine configurations than I4/I3 that are not exploited.
L
In @ssun30 comment, 'efficient' means 'cheap'. If 4 cylinders were so great, AMG's 4.0l would not be a V8 but 4.0l I4, like the old Cummins BT4, only gasoline. As a range extender, there are far better engine configurations than I4/I3 that are not exploited.
L
In @ssun30 comment, 'efficient' means 'cheap'. If 4 cylinders were so great, AMG's 4.0l would not be a V8 but 4.0l I4, like the old Cummins BT4, only gasoline. As a range extender, there are far better engine configurations than I4/I3 that are not exploited.
S
carguy420
So in the future a 600hp sports sedan is going to have a 4 cylinder pile? Screw that!
Unfortunately it has already happened:
https://www.polestar.com/polestar-1
S
carguy420
So in the future a 600hp sports sedan is going to have a 4 cylinder pile? Screw that!
Unfortunately it has already happened:
https://www.polestar.com/polestar-1
S
carguy420
So in the future a 600hp sports sedan is going to have a 4 cylinder pile? Screw that!
Unfortunately it has already happened:
https://www.polestar.com/polestar-1
maiaramdan
I think we must start to store some v8s and v12s cars in the crazy future of i4s & BEVs
maiaramdan
I think we must start to store some v8s and v12s cars in the crazy future of i4s & BEVs
maiaramdan
I think we must start to store some v8s and v12s cars in the crazy future of i4s & BEVs
S
Joaquin Ruhi
Per current rumors, Lexus wouldn't really abandon the mid-size luxury sedan segment. Instead, the ES would broaden its model lineup to add enthusiast-oriented AWD and F-Sport variants to its current comfort-oriented FWD base models. In other words, such a 7ES would be more akin to the FWD-centric Audi A6 (which goes from base FWD to Quattro to S6 to all-out RS6) than to the RWD-centric BMW 5-Series and mercedes E-Class.
The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverses FWD/AWD is holding the ES back.

I'm one of those people on the other side of the fence. The enthusiasts in me wants an AWD ES but the business-sense in me (as I have been investing in Toyota for a long time) is that they won't.
Toyota sees green and that's all they see. If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it? Previous sales numbers suggest AWD is not an in-demand item for ES. 6ES still gets insane sales.
The F-Sport ES is a good niche. It'll likely lure in younger buyers.
S
Joaquin Ruhi
Per current rumors, Lexus wouldn't really abandon the mid-size luxury sedan segment. Instead, the ES would broaden its model lineup to add enthusiast-oriented AWD and F-Sport variants to its current comfort-oriented FWD base models. In other words, such a 7ES would be more akin to the FWD-centric Audi A6 (which goes from base FWD to Quattro to S6 to all-out RS6) than to the RWD-centric BMW 5-Series and mercedes E-Class.
The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverses FWD/AWD is holding the ES back.

I'm one of those people on the other side of the fence. The enthusiasts in me wants an AWD ES but the business-sense in me (as I have been investing in Toyota for a long time) is that they won't.
Toyota sees green and that's all they see. If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it? Previous sales numbers suggest AWD is not an in-demand item for ES. 6ES still gets insane sales.
The F-Sport ES is a good niche. It'll likely lure in younger buyers.
S
Joaquin Ruhi
Per current rumors, Lexus wouldn't really abandon the mid-size luxury sedan segment. Instead, the ES would broaden its model lineup to add enthusiast-oriented AWD and F-Sport variants to its current comfort-oriented FWD base models. In other words, such a 7ES would be more akin to the FWD-centric Audi A6 (which goes from base FWD to Quattro to S6 to all-out RS6) than to the RWD-centric BMW 5-Series and mercedes E-Class.
The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverses FWD/AWD is holding the ES back.

I'm one of those people on the other side of the fence. The enthusiasts in me wants an AWD ES but the business-sense in me (as I have been investing in Toyota for a long time) is that they won't.
Toyota sees green and that's all they see. If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it? Previous sales numbers suggest AWD is not an in-demand item for ES. 6ES still gets insane sales.
The F-Sport ES is a good niche. It'll likely lure in younger buyers.
Gecko
Merged. This is the official 4th gen IS discussion thread.
Gecko
Merged. This is the official 4th gen IS discussion thread.
Gecko
Merged. This is the official 4th gen IS discussion thread.
Joaquin Ruhi
Sakura
The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverse FWD/AWD is holding the ES back...

If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it?
Two things worth keeping in mind:

1) In the declining North American mid-size sedan market, it seems that each major Japanese carmaker is staking out a unique niche for itself, with only a bare handful of rivals. Toyota's Camry is almost the sole remaining midsize to offer a V6 option (alongside Ford Fusion Sport). Honda Accord has the broadest variety of clutch-pedal manual transmission offerings (on both 1.5-liter and 2-liter Sport models). And AWD options for the new-for-2019 Nissan Altima are rivaled only by Ford and Subaru. Could the latter move, if successful, spur Toyota to offer an AWD option on Camry?

2) The 5th-generation Toyota RAV4 debuting in a few months marks both a move to the latest Camry/Avalon/ES TNGA-K platform and Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD. And, for the 2020 model year, its larger Toyota Highlander sibling follows in its footsteps. Could these renovated models (plus the AWD-optional Sienna minivan due for its own transition to TNGA-K around the same time) create enough critical mass to make an AWD option for some if not all the TNGA-K sedans a more viable and profitable proposition?
Joaquin Ruhi
Sakura
The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverse FWD/AWD is holding the ES back...

If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it?
Two things worth keeping in mind:

1) In the declining North American mid-size sedan market, it seems that each major Japanese carmaker is staking out a unique niche for itself, with only a bare handful of rivals. Toyota's Camry is almost the sole remaining midsize to offer a V6 option (alongside Ford Fusion Sport). Honda Accord has the broadest variety of clutch-pedal manual transmission offerings (on both 1.5-liter and 2-liter Sport models). And AWD options for the new-for-2019 Nissan Altima are rivaled only by Ford and Subaru. Could the latter move, if successful, spur Toyota to offer an AWD option on Camry?

2) The 5th-generation Toyota RAV4 debuting in a few months marks both a move to the latest Camry/Avalon/ES TNGA-K platform and Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD. And, for the 2020 model year, its larger Toyota Highlander sibling follows in its footsteps. Could these renovated models (plus the AWD-optional Sienna minivan due for its own transition to TNGA-K around the same time) create enough critical mass to make an AWD option for some if not all the TNGA-K sedans a more viable and profitable proposition?
Joaquin Ruhi
Sakura
The thing is - the F-Sport ES and AWD ES won't be able to compete with the E/5 still. Transverse FWD/AWD is holding the ES back...

If the ES AWD won't produce enough sales for the worth of development, they won't make it. Considering if the AWD the ES, they'll have to AWD the Camry/Avalon too. The question is - will they net profit from giving AWD to 3 vehicles? Is there a demand for it?
Two things worth keeping in mind:

1) In the declining North American mid-size sedan market, it seems that each major Japanese carmaker is staking out a unique niche for itself, with only a bare handful of rivals. Toyota's Camry is almost the sole remaining midsize to offer a V6 option (alongside Ford Fusion Sport). Honda Accord has the broadest variety of clutch-pedal manual transmission offerings (on both 1.5-liter and 2-liter Sport models). And AWD options for the new-for-2019 Nissan Altima are rivaled only by Ford and Subaru. Could the latter move, if successful, spur Toyota to offer an AWD option on Camry?

2) The 5th-generation Toyota RAV4 debuting in a few months marks both a move to the latest Camry/Avalon/ES TNGA-K platform and Dynamic Torque Vectoring AWD. And, for the 2020 model year, its larger Toyota Highlander sibling follows in its footsteps. Could these renovated models (plus the AWD-optional Sienna minivan due for its own transition to TNGA-K around the same time) create enough critical mass to make an AWD option for some if not all the TNGA-K sedans a more viable and profitable proposition?
R
  • R
    RRR
  • July 12, 2018
Wishful thinking as conservative as Lexus/Toyota is I'm hoping for a IS400 or IS450 model with a 3.5 v6 twin turbo for the next generation, and for the return of the IS-F with a 4.0 v8 that is rumoured to be in the LC-F. And I think Lexus needs to offer more individual options like the Germans, I really don't like that there is only 3 packages available for the F Sport and non F Sport. If I'm spending over $50k on a vehicle I want more individual options to suit my needs. Isn't that where auto manufacturers make the most profits, in options?

R