Collected: More Reviews of the 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h

Posted by Kevin on June 25th, 2018

Now two weeks after the first reviews of the 2019 Lexus ES hit the Internet, let’s look at some more driving impressions of the new sedan.

Pat Devereux of Top Gear could not have been more effusive in his review of the ES 300h:

This is a moment for you to consider what driving you really do, rather than what you would like to do, but don’t. While [Top Gear] will go to its grave defending your right to having a drift-worthy V8 that consumes tyres and petrol in equal measure, there are some of us who just want or need to get somewhere in the least stressful way possible. Often with luggage and passengers. For those people, cars like the Volvo S90 and now the new Lexus ES are not just a sensible choice, but the correct one.

The Gear Patrol review from Alex Kalogiannis is even-handed and sensible:

The legacy of the ES is secure. Within its element, it’s the best its ever been with contemporary looks and tech conveniences. The F Sport accoutrement only improves things, as long as buyers go in with the right expectations. The ride is smooth, the cabin is a comfortable place to be and it’s easy to see why Lexus loyalists have stuck with it for a few decades. This generation ES is far from a radical upgrade, but as [Chief Engineer] Sakakibara-san states, the pleasure is in the little things it consistently gets right.

Lexus ES Hybrid

Jake Lingeman from Autoweek has posted a very positive review of the ES, but what I wanted to highlight is his take on the Remote Touch controller:

There’s been a lot said about Lexus’ patented mouse pad/slider-joystick infotainment control, and I have a few opinions of my own. The first generation was not good. You had to look at the slider and the screen to find the right time to click. The company added little faux detents, so the cursor would sort of stick on the function you were looking for. It got better. Then it increased the screen size a few years ago to the 12.3 inches and got rid of the joystick/slider for a finger-controlled mouse pad. There was too much ground to cover. Now it’s refined again with separate screen divisions, with little tactile vibrations on the mouse pad where the screens meet so you sort of know where you are.

It wasn’t completely intuitive, but after a day in the car I was…serviceable with it. A week or so and it might be second nature. Whether it should take a week to learn how to use it is another issue. I think that’s an average amount of time; some in the office think that’s too long.

Lexus ES: Sixth Generation
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Comments
krew
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
We're also not convinced that the interior is different enough from the Toyota Camry and Avalon to justify its expected price premium — Lexus was fuzzy with the numbers but gave us a ballpark. Though the ES does receive a new trim texture based on the finishes of a samurai's katana, if you were to compare interior shots of the Camry and the ES side by side, you'd find that the steering wheel, instrument display, starter button, transmission shifter, and lower console are interchangeable. It's only the infotainment screens, and some slightly higher-quality materials such as the leather seats, that differ significantly.

This interior parts-sharing quandary has always been a fact of life for the ES, but these days it's hard not to drive an ES and cast a glance at the Avalon, if you can get past the badge. What's more, recent Lexus models like the LC 500 have really impressed us with excellent materials, design, craftsmanship, and attention to detail, and it's disappointing that more of the LC's special sauce didn't make it to the ES.
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

View attachment 2879

View attachment 2880

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
krew
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
We're also not convinced that the interior is different enough from the Toyota Camry and Avalon to justify its expected price premium — Lexus was fuzzy with the numbers but gave us a ballpark. Though the ES does receive a new trim texture based on the finishes of a samurai's katana, if you were to compare interior shots of the Camry and the ES side by side, you'd find that the steering wheel, instrument display, starter button, transmission shifter, and lower console are interchangeable. It's only the infotainment screens, and some slightly higher-quality materials such as the leather seats, that differ significantly.

This interior parts-sharing quandary has always been a fact of life for the ES, but these days it's hard not to drive an ES and cast a glance at the Avalon, if you can get past the badge. What's more, recent Lexus models like the LC 500 have really impressed us with excellent materials, design, craftsmanship, and attention to detail, and it's disappointing that more of the LC's special sauce didn't make it to the ES.
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

View attachment 2879

View attachment 2880

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
krew
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
We're also not convinced that the interior is different enough from the Toyota Camry and Avalon to justify its expected price premium — Lexus was fuzzy with the numbers but gave us a ballpark. Though the ES does receive a new trim texture based on the finishes of a samurai's katana, if you were to compare interior shots of the Camry and the ES side by side, you'd find that the steering wheel, instrument display, starter button, transmission shifter, and lower console are interchangeable. It's only the infotainment screens, and some slightly higher-quality materials such as the leather seats, that differ significantly.

This interior parts-sharing quandary has always been a fact of life for the ES, but these days it's hard not to drive an ES and cast a glance at the Avalon, if you can get past the badge. What's more, recent Lexus models like the LC 500 have really impressed us with excellent materials, design, craftsmanship, and attention to detail, and it's disappointing that more of the LC's special sauce didn't make it to the ES.
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

View attachment 2879

View attachment 2880

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
Gecko
Sakura
Agreed. For us car enthusiasts, if we were have to must have an ES, the F-Sport is the one to buy. But - I feel like for the target demographics of the ES - the Premium Pack to Luxury Package will be the most popular trim to buy.
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Gecko
Sakura
Agreed. For us car enthusiasts, if we were have to must have an ES, the F-Sport is the one to buy. But - I feel like for the target demographics of the ES - the Premium Pack to Luxury Package will be the most popular trim to buy.
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Gecko
Sakura
Agreed. For us car enthusiasts, if we were have to must have an ES, the F-Sport is the one to buy. But - I feel like for the target demographics of the ES - the Premium Pack to Luxury Package will be the most popular trim to buy.
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Gecko
Sakura
Agreed. For us car enthusiasts, if we were have to must have an ES, the F-Sport is the one to buy. But - I feel like for the target demographics of the ES - the Premium Pack to Luxury Package will be the most popular trim to buy.
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Gecko
lsu5508
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other. I cant see myself spending 40k-50k on a car and not getting a basic luxury amenity like leather seats. I understand the market for each car is different but i have to imagine there are alot of people that want some of both.
This is one of my biggest frustrations with F Sport, especially on the LS and some more expensive models. I do not want entry level looking aluminum trim on a $100k flagship sedan. And quite frankly, I'd like something other than red or black leather, too. Lexus needs to offer some other trim options like open poor woods, smoked/black woods, etc or allow F Sport to be added to other packages like you note. The aluminum has been an economy car trim for almost two decades now... it's got to go.
Gecko
lsu5508
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other. I cant see myself spending 40k-50k on a car and not getting a basic luxury amenity like leather seats. I understand the market for each car is different but i have to imagine there are alot of people that want some of both.
This is one of my biggest frustrations with F Sport, especially on the LS and some more expensive models. I do not want entry level looking aluminum trim on a $100k flagship sedan. And quite frankly, I'd like something other than red or black leather, too. Lexus needs to offer some other trim options like open poor woods, smoked/black woods, etc or allow F Sport to be added to other packages like you note. The aluminum has been an economy car trim for almost two decades now... it's got to go.
Gecko
lsu5508
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other. I cant see myself spending 40k-50k on a car and not getting a basic luxury amenity like leather seats. I understand the market for each car is different but i have to imagine there are alot of people that want some of both.
This is one of my biggest frustrations with F Sport, especially on the LS and some more expensive models. I do not want entry level looking aluminum trim on a $100k flagship sedan. And quite frankly, I'd like something other than red or black leather, too. Lexus needs to offer some other trim options like open poor woods, smoked/black woods, etc or allow F Sport to be added to other packages like you note. The aluminum has been an economy car trim for almost two decades now... it's got to go.
Gecko
lsu5508
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other. I cant see myself spending 40k-50k on a car and not getting a basic luxury amenity like leather seats. I understand the market for each car is different but i have to imagine there are alot of people that want some of both.
This is one of my biggest frustrations with F Sport, especially on the LS and some more expensive models. I do not want entry level looking aluminum trim on a $100k flagship sedan. And quite frankly, I'd like something other than red or black leather, too. Lexus needs to offer some other trim options like open poor woods, smoked/black woods, etc or allow F Sport to be added to other packages like you note. The aluminum has been an economy car trim for almost two decades now... it's got to go.
S
krew
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
Things that I forgot to ask: how do the low profile tyres (w/19-inch) on the F-Sport affect ride quality? Is there a notable difference in harshness and road noise compared to the high profile tyres (w/17 or 18-inch)? What compound does the F-Sport use? Is it sport softs, or long life hards? Does the hybrid use low rolling-resistance tyres?
S
krew
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
Things that I forgot to ask: how do the low profile tyres (w/19-inch) on the F-Sport affect ride quality? Is there a notable difference in harshness and road noise compared to the high profile tyres (w/17 or 18-inch)? What compound does the F-Sport use? Is it sport softs, or long life hards? Does the hybrid use low rolling-resistance tyres?
S
krew
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
Things that I forgot to ask: how do the low profile tyres (w/19-inch) on the F-Sport affect ride quality? Is there a notable difference in harshness and road noise compared to the high profile tyres (w/17 or 18-inch)? What compound does the F-Sport use? Is it sport softs, or long life hards? Does the hybrid use low rolling-resistance tyres?
S
krew
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
Things that I forgot to ask: how do the low profile tyres (w/19-inch) on the F-Sport affect ride quality? Is there a notable difference in harshness and road noise compared to the high profile tyres (w/17 or 18-inch)? What compound does the F-Sport use? Is it sport softs, or long life hards? Does the hybrid use low rolling-resistance tyres?
Joaquin Ruhi
spwolf
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
FWIW, at least one, if not more of the post-review comments blasted Autoblog's Klein for those stupid comments.
Joaquin Ruhi
spwolf
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
FWIW, at least one, if not more of the post-review comments blasted Autoblog's Klein for those stupid comments.
Joaquin Ruhi
spwolf
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
FWIW, at least one, if not more of the post-review comments blasted Autoblog's Klein for those stupid comments.
Joaquin Ruhi
spwolf
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
FWIW, at least one, if not more of the post-review comments blasted Autoblog's Klein for those stupid comments.
S
ssun30
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
What do you mean security factor? You mean traction?

I watched a couple review and read a couple on the Lexus ES too. The general opinion among car enthusiasts is we want an AWD Lexus ES. However - as some reviews noted - the AWD system will help the car from wheel-spinning but they also mention the typical ES driver will not push it that hard where wheel-spin occurs. So the typical average Lexus ES driver doesn't need it. (I'm strictly talking about the US-Market by the way. The main demographics for the ES is an older buyer that is at least 50+ years of age - for the US.)

According to sales numbers since 2002: the Lexus ES consumers don't seem to care (want) AWD. They averaged high 40K to 70K in yearly unit sales without AWD since 2002. As for Canada - the Lexus ES peaked sales was in 2007 at 4000 units. Then every other year - the Lexus ES averages 2000 to 3000 units per year. Its safe to say, Canadian market is not priority to Lexus. Also - Canadian market has been averaging 2000 to 3000 sales per year consistently with FWD so I don't think its at a point where Lexus really feels they need to add FWD.
I also personally think a AWD Lexus ES is bad choice as a snow car. I would get a Audi or Subaru for that. Or an Acura with SH-AWD.
I also think the GS needed an AWD option because it was RWD base. FWD does pretty well in the snow.

The floor hump in the second row is poor evidence though because the Camry and Avalon has a second row hump as well. It could really just mean its a design que. Unless they are planning to add AWD to the Camry, Avalon and the ES? Which is unlikely.
What I mean by design que is: Toyota is trying to make their cars more sporty - a second row hump just looks more sporty in design language. It separates it from the Corolla and etc...
Another example: The 1G and 2G Acura TSX had the second row hump. The 3G TL has it as well. None of them had AWD offered to them. The rumor back in 2007 was the Acura TSX will get the RDX Turbo + AWD in the 2G because of the second row hump. Nothing happened. Another K24 N/A engine + FWD.

Agreed. "We are investigating it" is a loose phrase to not stir media. It can allow them to go yay or nay. We really can't tell what they mean by that phrase, hell, they could have just said it and not be doing anything at all.

These are just my opinions and assumption for Toyota, anyways. They haven't been making cars in the car enthusiasts mind-set for a long time. This is why TMC is so rich.

spwolf
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
The F-Sport model does handles and feels better than the standard ES. I agree. Its because of the different tuning of the suspensions. However - many reviewers I read - they notice its only a subtle change because the handling is some compromised by the FWD. That's where I'm just basing everything from.

krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
From what I took from the Autoblog review, I think he means the interior is similarity put together (as in the location of everything is pretty much the same - interchangeable). But overall - I really have no clue what hes talking about.... Lol. But - benefit of the doubt - I do see some "Camry-ness" if I stare at it for long enough.

Gecko
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Agreed. +1 Good point. However - I think the biggest attractiveness to current line-up of F-Sport models is the digital gauges. With the new Lexus that are coming out, they'll be offering both digital gauges and LFA style gauges. I believe the Lexus RX packaging isn't also as restrictive as the ES because you can have leather seats on the Lexus RX F-Sport.
S
ssun30
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
What do you mean security factor? You mean traction?

I watched a couple review and read a couple on the Lexus ES too. The general opinion among car enthusiasts is we want an AWD Lexus ES. However - as some reviews noted - the AWD system will help the car from wheel-spinning but they also mention the typical ES driver will not push it that hard where wheel-spin occurs. So the typical average Lexus ES driver doesn't need it. (I'm strictly talking about the US-Market by the way. The main demographics for the ES is an older buyer that is at least 50+ years of age - for the US.)

According to sales numbers since 2002: the Lexus ES consumers don't seem to care (want) AWD. They averaged high 40K to 70K in yearly unit sales without AWD since 2002. As for Canada - the Lexus ES peaked sales was in 2007 at 4000 units. Then every other year - the Lexus ES averages 2000 to 3000 units per year. Its safe to say, Canadian market is not priority to Lexus. Also - Canadian market has been averaging 2000 to 3000 sales per year consistently with FWD so I don't think its at a point where Lexus really feels they need to add FWD.
I also personally think a AWD Lexus ES is bad choice as a snow car. I would get a Audi or Subaru for that. Or an Acura with SH-AWD.
I also think the GS needed an AWD option because it was RWD base. FWD does pretty well in the snow.

The floor hump in the second row is poor evidence though because the Camry and Avalon has a second row hump as well. It could really just mean its a design que. Unless they are planning to add AWD to the Camry, Avalon and the ES? Which is unlikely.
What I mean by design que is: Toyota is trying to make their cars more sporty - a second row hump just looks more sporty in design language. It separates it from the Corolla and etc...
Another example: The 1G and 2G Acura TSX had the second row hump. The 3G TL has it as well. None of them had AWD offered to them. The rumor back in 2007 was the Acura TSX will get the RDX Turbo + AWD in the 2G because of the second row hump. Nothing happened. Another K24 N/A engine + FWD.

Agreed. "We are investigating it" is a loose phrase to not stir media. It can allow them to go yay or nay. We really can't tell what they mean by that phrase, hell, they could have just said it and not be doing anything at all.

These are just my opinions and assumption for Toyota, anyways. They haven't been making cars in the car enthusiasts mind-set for a long time. This is why TMC is so rich.

spwolf
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
The F-Sport model does handles and feels better than the standard ES. I agree. Its because of the different tuning of the suspensions. However - many reviewers I read - they notice its only a subtle change because the handling is some compromised by the FWD. That's where I'm just basing everything from.

krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
From what I took from the Autoblog review, I think he means the interior is similarity put together (as in the location of everything is pretty much the same - interchangeable). But overall - I really have no clue what hes talking about.... Lol. But - benefit of the doubt - I do see some "Camry-ness" if I stare at it for long enough.

Gecko
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Agreed. +1 Good point. However - I think the biggest attractiveness to current line-up of F-Sport models is the digital gauges. With the new Lexus that are coming out, they'll be offering both digital gauges and LFA style gauges. I believe the Lexus RX packaging isn't also as restrictive as the ES because you can have leather seats on the Lexus RX F-Sport.
S
ssun30
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
What do you mean security factor? You mean traction?

I watched a couple review and read a couple on the Lexus ES too. The general opinion among car enthusiasts is we want an AWD Lexus ES. However - as some reviews noted - the AWD system will help the car from wheel-spinning but they also mention the typical ES driver will not push it that hard where wheel-spin occurs. So the typical average Lexus ES driver doesn't need it. (I'm strictly talking about the US-Market by the way. The main demographics for the ES is an older buyer that is at least 50+ years of age - for the US.)

According to sales numbers since 2002: the Lexus ES consumers don't seem to care (want) AWD. They averaged high 40K to 70K in yearly unit sales without AWD since 2002. As for Canada - the Lexus ES peaked sales was in 2007 at 4000 units. Then every other year - the Lexus ES averages 2000 to 3000 units per year. Its safe to say, Canadian market is not priority to Lexus. Also - Canadian market has been averaging 2000 to 3000 sales per year consistently with FWD so I don't think its at a point where Lexus really feels they need to add FWD.
I also personally think a AWD Lexus ES is bad choice as a snow car. I would get a Audi or Subaru for that. Or an Acura with SH-AWD.
I also think the GS needed an AWD option because it was RWD base. FWD does pretty well in the snow.

The floor hump in the second row is poor evidence though because the Camry and Avalon has a second row hump as well. It could really just mean its a design que. Unless they are planning to add AWD to the Camry, Avalon and the ES? Which is unlikely.
What I mean by design que is: Toyota is trying to make their cars more sporty - a second row hump just looks more sporty in design language. It separates it from the Corolla and etc...
Another example: The 1G and 2G Acura TSX had the second row hump. The 3G TL has it as well. None of them had AWD offered to them. The rumor back in 2007 was the Acura TSX will get the RDX Turbo + AWD in the 2G because of the second row hump. Nothing happened. Another K24 N/A engine + FWD.

Agreed. "We are investigating it" is a loose phrase to not stir media. It can allow them to go yay or nay. We really can't tell what they mean by that phrase, hell, they could have just said it and not be doing anything at all.

These are just my opinions and assumption for Toyota, anyways. They haven't been making cars in the car enthusiasts mind-set for a long time. This is why TMC is so rich.

spwolf
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
The F-Sport model does handles and feels better than the standard ES. I agree. Its because of the different tuning of the suspensions. However - many reviewers I read - they notice its only a subtle change because the handling is some compromised by the FWD. That's where I'm just basing everything from.

krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
From what I took from the Autoblog review, I think he means the interior is similarity put together (as in the location of everything is pretty much the same - interchangeable). But overall - I really have no clue what hes talking about.... Lol. But - benefit of the doubt - I do see some "Camry-ness" if I stare at it for long enough.

Gecko
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Agreed. +1 Good point. However - I think the biggest attractiveness to current line-up of F-Sport models is the digital gauges. With the new Lexus that are coming out, they'll be offering both digital gauges and LFA style gauges. I believe the Lexus RX packaging isn't also as restrictive as the ES because you can have leather seats on the Lexus RX F-Sport.
S
ssun30
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
What do you mean security factor? You mean traction?

I watched a couple review and read a couple on the Lexus ES too. The general opinion among car enthusiasts is we want an AWD Lexus ES. However - as some reviews noted - the AWD system will help the car from wheel-spinning but they also mention the typical ES driver will not push it that hard where wheel-spin occurs. So the typical average Lexus ES driver doesn't need it. (I'm strictly talking about the US-Market by the way. The main demographics for the ES is an older buyer that is at least 50+ years of age - for the US.)

According to sales numbers since 2002: the Lexus ES consumers don't seem to care (want) AWD. They averaged high 40K to 70K in yearly unit sales without AWD since 2002. As for Canada - the Lexus ES peaked sales was in 2007 at 4000 units. Then every other year - the Lexus ES averages 2000 to 3000 units per year. Its safe to say, Canadian market is not priority to Lexus. Also - Canadian market has been averaging 2000 to 3000 sales per year consistently with FWD so I don't think its at a point where Lexus really feels they need to add FWD.
I also personally think a AWD Lexus ES is bad choice as a snow car. I would get a Audi or Subaru for that. Or an Acura with SH-AWD.
I also think the GS needed an AWD option because it was RWD base. FWD does pretty well in the snow.

The floor hump in the second row is poor evidence though because the Camry and Avalon has a second row hump as well. It could really just mean its a design que. Unless they are planning to add AWD to the Camry, Avalon and the ES? Which is unlikely.
What I mean by design que is: Toyota is trying to make their cars more sporty - a second row hump just looks more sporty in design language. It separates it from the Corolla and etc...
Another example: The 1G and 2G Acura TSX had the second row hump. The 3G TL has it as well. None of them had AWD offered to them. The rumor back in 2007 was the Acura TSX will get the RDX Turbo + AWD in the 2G because of the second row hump. Nothing happened. Another K24 N/A engine + FWD.

Agreed. "We are investigating it" is a loose phrase to not stir media. It can allow them to go yay or nay. We really can't tell what they mean by that phrase, hell, they could have just said it and not be doing anything at all.

These are just my opinions and assumption for Toyota, anyways. They haven't been making cars in the car enthusiasts mind-set for a long time. This is why TMC is so rich.

spwolf
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
The F-Sport model does handles and feels better than the standard ES. I agree. Its because of the different tuning of the suspensions. However - many reviewers I read - they notice its only a subtle change because the handling is some compromised by the FWD. That's where I'm just basing everything from.

krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
From what I took from the Autoblog review, I think he means the interior is similarity put together (as in the location of everything is pretty much the same - interchangeable). But overall - I really have no clue what hes talking about.... Lol. But - benefit of the doubt - I do see some "Camry-ness" if I stare at it for long enough.

Gecko
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Agreed. +1 Good point. However - I think the biggest attractiveness to current line-up of F-Sport models is the digital gauges. With the new Lexus that are coming out, they'll be offering both digital gauges and LFA style gauges. I believe the Lexus RX packaging isn't also as restrictive as the ES because you can have leather seats on the Lexus RX F-Sport.
S
As to the AWD, while all the rumors say it is coming, lets keep in mind that AWD take rate is something like 8% in the USA and much less in Europe.
S
As to the AWD, while all the rumors say it is coming, lets keep in mind that AWD take rate is something like 8% in the USA and much less in Europe.
S
As to the AWD, while all the rumors say it is coming, lets keep in mind that AWD take rate is something like 8% in the USA and much less in Europe.
S
As to the AWD, while all the rumors say it is coming, lets keep in mind that AWD take rate is something like 8% in the USA and much less in Europe.
S
spwolf
As to the AWD, while all the rumors say it is coming, lets keep in mind that AWD take rate is something like 8% in the USA and much less in Europe.
+1 Good info to know. While I never really thought about it, its true. The USA AWD take-rate is pretty low.
S
spwolf
As to the AWD, while all the rumors say it is coming, lets keep in mind that AWD take rate is something like 8% in the USA and much less in Europe.
+1 Good info to know. While I never really thought about it, its true. The USA AWD take-rate is pretty low.
S
spwolf
As to the AWD, while all the rumors say it is coming, lets keep in mind that AWD take rate is something like 8% in the USA and much less in Europe.
+1 Good info to know. While I never really thought about it, its true. The USA AWD take-rate is pretty low.

S