Collected: More Reviews of the 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h

Posted by Kevin on June 25th, 2018

Now two weeks after the first reviews of the 2019 Lexus ES hit the Internet, let’s look at some more driving impressions of the new sedan.

Pat Devereux of Top Gear could not have been more effusive in his review of the ES 300h:

This is a moment for you to consider what driving you really do, rather than what you would like to do, but don’t. While [Top Gear] will go to its grave defending your right to having a drift-worthy V8 that consumes tyres and petrol in equal measure, there are some of us who just want or need to get somewhere in the least stressful way possible. Often with luggage and passengers. For those people, cars like the Volvo S90 and now the new Lexus ES are not just a sensible choice, but the correct one.

The Gear Patrol review from Alex Kalogiannis is even-handed and sensible:

The legacy of the ES is secure. Within its element, it’s the best its ever been with contemporary looks and tech conveniences. The F Sport accoutrement only improves things, as long as buyers go in with the right expectations. The ride is smooth, the cabin is a comfortable place to be and it’s easy to see why Lexus loyalists have stuck with it for a few decades. This generation ES is far from a radical upgrade, but as [Chief Engineer] Sakakibara-san states, the pleasure is in the little things it consistently gets right.

Lexus ES Hybrid

Jake Lingeman from Autoweek has posted a very positive review of the ES, but what I wanted to highlight is his take on the Remote Touch controller:

There’s been a lot said about Lexus’ patented mouse pad/slider-joystick infotainment control, and I have a few opinions of my own. The first generation was not good. You had to look at the slider and the screen to find the right time to click. The company added little faux detents, so the cursor would sort of stick on the function you were looking for. It got better. Then it increased the screen size a few years ago to the 12.3 inches and got rid of the joystick/slider for a finger-controlled mouse pad. There was too much ground to cover. Now it’s refined again with separate screen divisions, with little tactile vibrations on the mouse pad where the screens meet so you sort of know where you are.

It wasn’t completely intuitive, but after a day in the car I was…serviceable with it. A week or so and it might be second nature. Whether it should take a week to learn how to use it is another issue. I think that’s an average amount of time; some in the office think that’s too long.

Lexus ES: Sixth Generation
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Comments
S
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
S
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
Agree to disagree for this, I guess. I see it as more black and white for the Lexus ES because they are forcing you to either have F-Sport or Luxury Pack. It'll be less Black and White if they let you mix-package it. I would have loved it if we could get the Luxury Pack on top of the F-Sport pack. But they are making you choose Sport or Luxury - to me that's black/white. Either Apple or Orange.

Agreed. Its not a sports car - it never was meant to be one. That's why in my opinion, I see the luxury packages as more valuable and worth wild compared to the F-Sport. Some of the bells and whistles on both the Luxury and Ultra Luxury Pack seems more worth it to me than the F-Sport.

True. Overall review says the ES handles pretty decent for a FWD. However - from the reviews I saw - majority of them said the F-Sport + Sport+ mode changes were subtle, at best, changes to the handling. This is why, in my opinion, I would prefer the Lexus ES Luxury Pack. Similarly - I would prefer the Lexus LS with the Executive Pack with Kiriko (not available on F-Sport.) For these cars, I want the car to make me feel like home. If I wanted a F-Sport Lexus that's in the 50K, I'll get a IS350 F-Sport and skip the luxury stuff for the IS.

ssun30
1)It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

2)I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

3)You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

4) This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Ssun30, I numbered your quote to make it easier to reply to :)

1) Thanks for that info. I never knew that. I thought it was a bit odd the 19 Lexus ES350 with the 2GR-FKS can only run 6.6 seconds to 60. I assume it'll be a tad bit slower than the Camry XSE due to weight probably.

2) Agreed. The wheel-spin alone will be a good reason for them to add AWD. However - this is from a car enthusiast's perspective. From my experience of being a heavy Toyota shareholder, Toyota doesn't really make choices for the car enthusiast. They make most of their decision for the share-holder and what will generate more profit. If they feel like the AWD will sell and is it needed, they'll add it.
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.

3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. And to me, that's not worth the insane (near LS-like) features on the Ultra Luxury Pack.
But - the M Sport, AMG Line, and S-Line packages don't restrict you from getting the fancier luxury features. German's build are very liquid, you can option anything and pack anything regardless of design packages. However - Lexus and Acura restricts you.
Obviously - if an Ultra Luxury Pack F-Sport exist - I would love that. It would be amazing. But it doesn't, and since it doesn't, I personally would be more incline to take the Ultra Luxury Pack because I don't see a use in a F-Sport ES.
S
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
Agree to disagree for this, I guess. I see it as more black and white for the Lexus ES because they are forcing you to either have F-Sport or Luxury Pack. It'll be less Black and White if they let you mix-package it. I would have loved it if we could get the Luxury Pack on top of the F-Sport pack. But they are making you choose Sport or Luxury - to me that's black/white. Either Apple or Orange.

Agreed. Its not a sports car - it never was meant to be one. That's why in my opinion, I see the luxury packages as more valuable and worth wild compared to the F-Sport. Some of the bells and whistles on both the Luxury and Ultra Luxury Pack seems more worth it to me than the F-Sport.

True. Overall review says the ES handles pretty decent for a FWD. However - from the reviews I saw - majority of them said the F-Sport + Sport+ mode changes were subtle, at best, changes to the handling. This is why, in my opinion, I would prefer the Lexus ES Luxury Pack. Similarly - I would prefer the Lexus LS with the Executive Pack with Kiriko (not available on F-Sport.) For these cars, I want the car to make me feel like home. If I wanted a F-Sport Lexus that's in the 50K, I'll get a IS350 F-Sport and skip the luxury stuff for the IS.

ssun30
1)It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

2)I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

3)You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

4) This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Ssun30, I numbered your quote to make it easier to reply to :)

1) Thanks for that info. I never knew that. I thought it was a bit odd the 19 Lexus ES350 with the 2GR-FKS can only run 6.6 seconds to 60. I assume it'll be a tad bit slower than the Camry XSE due to weight probably.

2) Agreed. The wheel-spin alone will be a good reason for them to add AWD. However - this is from a car enthusiast's perspective. From my experience of being a heavy Toyota shareholder, Toyota doesn't really make choices for the car enthusiast. They make most of their decision for the share-holder and what will generate more profit. If they feel like the AWD will sell and is it needed, they'll add it.
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.

3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. And to me, that's not worth the insane (near LS-like) features on the Ultra Luxury Pack.
But - the M Sport, AMG Line, and S-Line packages don't restrict you from getting the fancier luxury features. German's build are very liquid, you can option anything and pack anything regardless of design packages. However - Lexus and Acura restricts you.
Obviously - if an Ultra Luxury Pack F-Sport exist - I would love that. It would be amazing. But it doesn't, and since it doesn't, I personally would be more incline to take the Ultra Luxury Pack because I don't see a use in a F-Sport ES.
S
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
Agree to disagree for this, I guess. I see it as more black and white for the Lexus ES because they are forcing you to either have F-Sport or Luxury Pack. It'll be less Black and White if they let you mix-package it. I would have loved it if we could get the Luxury Pack on top of the F-Sport pack. But they are making you choose Sport or Luxury - to me that's black/white. Either Apple or Orange.

Agreed. Its not a sports car - it never was meant to be one. That's why in my opinion, I see the luxury packages as more valuable and worth wild compared to the F-Sport. Some of the bells and whistles on both the Luxury and Ultra Luxury Pack seems more worth it to me than the F-Sport.

True. Overall review says the ES handles pretty decent for a FWD. However - from the reviews I saw - majority of them said the F-Sport + Sport+ mode changes were subtle, at best, changes to the handling. This is why, in my opinion, I would prefer the Lexus ES Luxury Pack. Similarly - I would prefer the Lexus LS with the Executive Pack with Kiriko (not available on F-Sport.) For these cars, I want the car to make me feel like home. If I wanted a F-Sport Lexus that's in the 50K, I'll get a IS350 F-Sport and skip the luxury stuff for the IS.

ssun30
1)It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

2)I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

3)You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

4) This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Ssun30, I numbered your quote to make it easier to reply to :)

1) Thanks for that info. I never knew that. I thought it was a bit odd the 19 Lexus ES350 with the 2GR-FKS can only run 6.6 seconds to 60. I assume it'll be a tad bit slower than the Camry XSE due to weight probably.

2) Agreed. The wheel-spin alone will be a good reason for them to add AWD. However - this is from a car enthusiast's perspective. From my experience of being a heavy Toyota shareholder, Toyota doesn't really make choices for the car enthusiast. They make most of their decision for the share-holder and what will generate more profit. If they feel like the AWD will sell and is it needed, they'll add it.
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.

3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. And to me, that's not worth the insane (near LS-like) features on the Ultra Luxury Pack.
But - the M Sport, AMG Line, and S-Line packages don't restrict you from getting the fancier luxury features. German's build are very liquid, you can option anything and pack anything regardless of design packages. However - Lexus and Acura restricts you.
Obviously - if an Ultra Luxury Pack F-Sport exist - I would love that. It would be amazing. But it doesn't, and since it doesn't, I personally would be more incline to take the Ultra Luxury Pack because I don't see a use in a F-Sport ES.
S
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
Agree to disagree for this, I guess. I see it as more black and white for the Lexus ES because they are forcing you to either have F-Sport or Luxury Pack. It'll be less Black and White if they let you mix-package it. I would have loved it if we could get the Luxury Pack on top of the F-Sport pack. But they are making you choose Sport or Luxury - to me that's black/white. Either Apple or Orange.

Agreed. Its not a sports car - it never was meant to be one. That's why in my opinion, I see the luxury packages as more valuable and worth wild compared to the F-Sport. Some of the bells and whistles on both the Luxury and Ultra Luxury Pack seems more worth it to me than the F-Sport.

True. Overall review says the ES handles pretty decent for a FWD. However - from the reviews I saw - majority of them said the F-Sport + Sport+ mode changes were subtle, at best, changes to the handling. This is why, in my opinion, I would prefer the Lexus ES Luxury Pack. Similarly - I would prefer the Lexus LS with the Executive Pack with Kiriko (not available on F-Sport.) For these cars, I want the car to make me feel like home. If I wanted a F-Sport Lexus that's in the 50K, I'll get a IS350 F-Sport and skip the luxury stuff for the IS.

ssun30
1)It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

2)I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

3)You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

4) This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Ssun30, I numbered your quote to make it easier to reply to :)

1) Thanks for that info. I never knew that. I thought it was a bit odd the 19 Lexus ES350 with the 2GR-FKS can only run 6.6 seconds to 60. I assume it'll be a tad bit slower than the Camry XSE due to weight probably.

2) Agreed. The wheel-spin alone will be a good reason for them to add AWD. However - this is from a car enthusiast's perspective. From my experience of being a heavy Toyota shareholder, Toyota doesn't really make choices for the car enthusiast. They make most of their decision for the share-holder and what will generate more profit. If they feel like the AWD will sell and is it needed, they'll add it.
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.

3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. And to me, that's not worth the insane (near LS-like) features on the Ultra Luxury Pack.
But - the M Sport, AMG Line, and S-Line packages don't restrict you from getting the fancier luxury features. German's build are very liquid, you can option anything and pack anything regardless of design packages. However - Lexus and Acura restricts you.
Obviously - if an Ultra Luxury Pack F-Sport exist - I would love that. It would be amazing. But it doesn't, and since it doesn't, I personally would be more incline to take the Ultra Luxury Pack because I don't see a use in a F-Sport ES.
S
Sakura
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
S
Sakura
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
S
Sakura
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
S
Sakura
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
S
ssun30
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.


This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
S
ssun30
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.


This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
S
ssun30
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.


This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
S
ssun30
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.


This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
S
Sakura
3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. A
but it does heavily effect handling and I bet when you try it you will discover that, just like @krew did.
S
Sakura
3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. A
but it does heavily effect handling and I bet when you try it you will discover that, just like @krew did.
S
Sakura
3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. A
but it does heavily effect handling and I bet when you try it you will discover that, just like @krew did.
S
Sakura
3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. A
but it does heavily effect handling and I bet when you try it you will discover that, just like @krew did.
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
S
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
S
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
S
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
S
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
krew
lsu5508
You are not wrong it just sucks that you cant have the high end interior with the f-sport. Just because i want a great handling car does not mean i dont want leather seats and an attractive trim package.I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it in person though.
NuLuxe doesn't bug me at all, though I've never owned a car with it. I have to say, the Ultra White ES F SPORT with the red interior is out of this world. Would buy that car in a second.

ssun30
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
krew
lsu5508
You are not wrong it just sucks that you cant have the high end interior with the f-sport. Just because i want a great handling car does not mean i dont want leather seats and an attractive trim package.I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it in person though.
NuLuxe doesn't bug me at all, though I've never owned a car with it. I have to say, the Ultra White ES F SPORT with the red interior is out of this world. Would buy that car in a second.

ssun30
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
krew
lsu5508
You are not wrong it just sucks that you cant have the high end interior with the f-sport. Just because i want a great handling car does not mean i dont want leather seats and an attractive trim package.I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it in person though.
NuLuxe doesn't bug me at all, though I've never owned a car with it. I have to say, the Ultra White ES F SPORT with the red interior is out of this world. Would buy that car in a second.

ssun30
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
krew
lsu5508
You are not wrong it just sucks that you cant have the high end interior with the f-sport. Just because i want a great handling car does not mean i dont want leather seats and an attractive trim package.I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it in person though.
NuLuxe doesn't bug me at all, though I've never owned a car with it. I have to say, the Ultra White ES F SPORT with the red interior is out of this world. Would buy that car in a second.

ssun30
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
krew
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
We're also not convinced that the interior is different enough from the Toyota Camry and Avalon to justify its expected price premium — Lexus was fuzzy with the numbers but gave us a ballpark. Though the ES does receive a new trim texture based on the finishes of a samurai's katana, if you were to compare interior shots of the Camry and the ES side by side, you'd find that the steering wheel, instrument display, starter button, transmission shifter, and lower console are interchangeable. It's only the infotainment screens, and some slightly higher-quality materials such as the leather seats, that differ significantly.

This interior parts-sharing quandary has always been a fact of life for the ES, but these days it's hard not to drive an ES and cast a glance at the Avalon, if you can get past the badge. What's more, recent Lexus models like the LC 500 have really impressed us with excellent materials, design, craftsmanship, and attention to detail, and it's disappointing that more of the LC's special sauce didn't make it to the ES.
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

View attachment 2879

View attachment 2880

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??

K