Driving the All-New 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h


Lexus Enthusiast editor Kevin Watts traveled to Nashville, Tennessee last month to test drive the all-new 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h hybrid. This is his personal impressions of the car, a full technical overview was posted last week.

For one moment, forget about the new Lexus ES sedan. Instead, think about every ES previous, and how you would describe it. It would likely be with words like Comfortable or Predictable, perhaps Conservative or even Dull if you were being less charitable.

For six generations, the ES has epitomized the old-school approach to luxury vehicles by being plush and dependable, never pushing the envelope or stepping outside of the lines. As a formula, the success is undeniable — Lexus has sold 2.12 million ES sedans since 1989, with over 1 million in the USA alone.

But that was then, and this is now. Sedan sales used to be able to support the IS sports sedan, the GS mid-size sedan, and the ES that straddled the two in price and size, respectively. Now, the entire automotive market thinks only of crossovers & SUVS, and Lexus has to be selective when updating its sedan lineup.

Enter the seventh-generation ES, a sedan that moves the needle closer to mid-size luxury in class and quality, while maintaining its price position as an entry-level luxury car. The times have changed, and the formula must change with it.


In the past, there’s been a hard limit in terms of the ES design. Despite the similarities in character to the LS flagship, Lexus has been mindful to maintain a respectful distance between the two models. This is no longer the case with the new model, as the ES now borrows from the LS sedan extensively. Even so, it’s only in the broad strokes — the seventh-generation ES is a much simpler design, free from the trappings of being a flagship.

My mixed feelings on the waterfall grille of the standard model have subsided somewhat, though I much prefer the styling of the ES F SPORT on the whole. There are certain configurations of color and angle where the car looks more expensive and upscale than necessary.

(As for the new colors: Sunlit Green is surprisingly intense with a wide spectrum depending on lighting. Moonbeam Beige Metallic is not my thing.)


Inside, the cabin is dominated by the 12.3-inch multimedia display, to the point where the rest of the interior practically fades away. It’s well enough that the biggest upgrade happens behind that screen, with the introduction of Apple CarPlay and the integration of the Amazon Alexa voice service.

Lexus ES Interior

There will be the usual complaints about the Remote Touch controller, which appears as a touchpad in the ES, but the new openness of the Lexus infotainment software makes manual input feel archaic. Voice control is fluid, working well regardless of the preferred service.

After so many years without support, having Apple CarPlay should be the turning point in discussing Lexus infotainment. Lack of Google integration is a valid complaint, but anyone in the Apple or Amazon ecosystem will be very happy.

(Unfortunate that the in-car Alexa must be launched every time the car is turned on, but there’s surely a contingent of buyers that are happy for that additional layer of privacy.)

For the rest of the cabin, some point-form from my notes:

  • The “wave” leather pattern available with some packages is subtle in appearance but bold in design. Lexus took a real chance adding texture to the trim, but it ends up elevating the interior.
  • A full black interior does the cabin no favors, as it hides the details and highlights the plastics. On the flip side, the Circuit Red interior is brilliant, perfectly in line with F SPORT while keeping a semblance of maturity expected with the ES.
  • There just isn’t enough wood trim in the cabin, though it does allow for a nice upgrade in the mid-cycle refresh down the line.

While I made sure to drive the standard ES 350 and the hybrid ES 300h, I was unable to escape the siren call of the Ultra White ES 350 F SPORT and its Circuit Red interior. There will be those that deride the very existence of a front-wheel-drive ES performance package, but the benefits are real and pronounced.

As expected, the upgrades all center on the driver — the steering wheel is leather-wrapped and thicker, the seats have extended side bolsters, there’s aluminum pedals and a G-Force gauge in the instrument panel. An Adaptive Variable Suspension is standard.

Lexus ES Driving

The thing that sold me was the steering, where the ES F SPORT is a significant upgrade over the standard model. There’s more weight to the wheel, providing better feedback and increasing the luxury factor of the driving experience. Again, the ES emulates a more expensive car in a very positive way.

(It should be noted that steering feel becomes much heavier in Sport mode for both Luxury and F Sport models.)


There’s a point during the day when I’m out in an ES 300h, driving around the Tennessee countryside, looking for somewhere to take photos and maybe shoot a video. My expectation of a quick turnaround quickly subsides, and I find myself driving aimlessly, pulling into small driveways, backing out onto busy roads, trying to find a patch of privacy with a good view.

Here’s the kicker — I never end up finding a spot. 40 minutes in the southern wilderness, and not a photo opportunity anywhere. But in the process, I do learn a couple things about the ES, the hybrid in particular.

Lexus ES Driving

Where the ES F SPORT feels like a distant relative to the previous generation, the ES hybrid is more evolutionary in its handling — light to the touch, but still grounded on the road.

The ES 300h is whisper quiet at moderate load, but even with the additional hybrid frequency-specific sound dampening, I’m not a fan of the engine & electric interplay. During heightened acceleration, the whine is audible and mechanical, like a washing machine spinning too fast.

But the driving experience is almost besides the point, because the ES 300h delivers a combined 44 mpg for city & highway driving. Outside of a plug-in, there is no more fuel-efficient luxury car available in the USA. I’m convinced my IQ went up a few points in my time behind the wheel.


In a lucky turn of events, the standard ES 350 is the last car I drive — it’s an amalgamation of the other two cars, with the F SPORT’s V6 and its eight-speed transmission with the lighter driving touch of the ES 300h.

If you have any familiarity with the ES sedan over the years, and perhaps are looking to capture that classic experience, the ES 350 is the car for you. The core experience remains the same — the cabin is still comfortably isolating, and the driving remains suitably effortless. The drive back to the hotel is a breeze, just as you would hope for after a long day.


Lexus ES Final

So what words would I use to describe this new ES? Comfortable most certainly, but I would add Confident and even Compelling as new qualities. Lexus may want to position this car against the Mercedes C-Class & Audi A4, but its true competitors are a class above and $10,000 more expensive. There is a lot of car for the money here.

This leads to wondering about how the front-wheel drive of the ES will compete against the rear-wheel drive performance of the E-Class or the all-wheel drive of the A6, but this is only one part of the formula. The better question is, how can Mercedes and Audi afford to compete with this car?

FeaturesLexus ES: Sixth Generation
Comments
Sakura
3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. A
but it does heavily effect handling and I bet when you try it you will discover that, just like @krew did.
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
lsu5508
You are not wrong it just sucks that you cant have the high end interior with the f-sport. Just because i want a great handling car does not mean i dont want leather seats and an attractive trim package.I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it in person though.
NuLuxe doesn't bug me at all, though I've never owned a car with it. I have to say, the Ultra White ES F SPORT with the red interior is out of this world. Would buy that car in a second.

ssun30
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
lsu5508
You are not wrong it just sucks that you cant have the high end interior with the f-sport. Just because i want a great handling car does not mean i dont want leather seats and an attractive trim package.I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it in person though.
NuLuxe doesn't bug me at all, though I've never owned a car with it. I have to say, the Ultra White ES F SPORT with the red interior is out of this world. Would buy that car in a second.

ssun30
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
lsu5508
You are not wrong it just sucks that you cant have the high end interior with the f-sport. Just because i want a great handling car does not mean i dont want leather seats and an attractive trim package.I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it in person though.
NuLuxe doesn't bug me at all, though I've never owned a car with it. I have to say, the Ultra White ES F SPORT with the red interior is out of this world. Would buy that car in a second.

ssun30
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
We're also not convinced that the interior is different enough from the Toyota Camry and Avalon to justify its expected price premium — Lexus was fuzzy with the numbers but gave us a ballpark. Though the ES does receive a new trim texture based on the finishes of a samurai's katana, if you were to compare interior shots of the Camry and the ES side by side, you'd find that the steering wheel, instrument display, starter button, transmission shifter, and lower console are interchangeable. It's only the infotainment screens, and some slightly higher-quality materials such as the leather seats, that differ significantly.

This interior parts-sharing quandary has always been a fact of life for the ES, but these days it's hard not to drive an ES and cast a glance at the Avalon, if you can get past the badge. What's more, recent Lexus models like the LC 500 have really impressed us with excellent materials, design, craftsmanship, and attention to detail, and it's disappointing that more of the LC's special sauce didn't make it to the ES.
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

View attachment 2879

View attachment 2880

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
We're also not convinced that the interior is different enough from the Toyota Camry and Avalon to justify its expected price premium — Lexus was fuzzy with the numbers but gave us a ballpark. Though the ES does receive a new trim texture based on the finishes of a samurai's katana, if you were to compare interior shots of the Camry and the ES side by side, you'd find that the steering wheel, instrument display, starter button, transmission shifter, and lower console are interchangeable. It's only the infotainment screens, and some slightly higher-quality materials such as the leather seats, that differ significantly.

This interior parts-sharing quandary has always been a fact of life for the ES, but these days it's hard not to drive an ES and cast a glance at the Avalon, if you can get past the badge. What's more, recent Lexus models like the LC 500 have really impressed us with excellent materials, design, craftsmanship, and attention to detail, and it's disappointing that more of the LC's special sauce didn't make it to the ES.
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

View attachment 2879

View attachment 2880

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
Joaquin Ruhi
For what it's worth, here's Autoblog's review. Seems that Jonathon Klein is one of their newest reviewers. I liked his Nissan Kicks review, but his ES review is kinda meh:

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/06/07/lexus-es-first-drive-review-entry-level-luxury-that-wants-to-h/
We're also not convinced that the interior is different enough from the Toyota Camry and Avalon to justify its expected price premium — Lexus was fuzzy with the numbers but gave us a ballpark. Though the ES does receive a new trim texture based on the finishes of a samurai's katana, if you were to compare interior shots of the Camry and the ES side by side, you'd find that the steering wheel, instrument display, starter button, transmission shifter, and lower console are interchangeable. It's only the infotainment screens, and some slightly higher-quality materials such as the leather seats, that differ significantly.

This interior parts-sharing quandary has always been a fact of life for the ES, but these days it's hard not to drive an ES and cast a glance at the Avalon, if you can get past the badge. What's more, recent Lexus models like the LC 500 have really impressed us with excellent materials, design, craftsmanship, and attention to detail, and it's disappointing that more of the LC's special sauce didn't make it to the ES.
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

View attachment 2879

View attachment 2880

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
Sakura
Agreed. For us car enthusiasts, if we were have to must have an ES, the F-Sport is the one to buy. But - I feel like for the target demographics of the ES - the Premium Pack to Luxury Package will be the most popular trim to buy.
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Sakura
Agreed. For us car enthusiasts, if we were have to must have an ES, the F-Sport is the one to buy. But - I feel like for the target demographics of the ES - the Premium Pack to Luxury Package will be the most popular trim to buy.
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Sakura
Agreed. For us car enthusiasts, if we were have to must have an ES, the F-Sport is the one to buy. But - I feel like for the target demographics of the ES - the Premium Pack to Luxury Package will be the most popular trim to buy.
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
lsu5508
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other. I cant see myself spending 40k-50k on a car and not getting a basic luxury amenity like leather seats. I understand the market for each car is different but i have to imagine there are alot of people that want some of both.
This is one of my biggest frustrations with F Sport, especially on the LS and some more expensive models. I do not want entry level looking aluminum trim on a $100k flagship sedan. And quite frankly, I'd like something other than red or black leather, too. Lexus needs to offer some other trim options like open poor woods, smoked/black woods, etc or allow F Sport to be added to other packages like you note. The aluminum has been an economy car trim for almost two decades now... it's got to go.
lsu5508
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other. I cant see myself spending 40k-50k on a car and not getting a basic luxury amenity like leather seats. I understand the market for each car is different but i have to imagine there are alot of people that want some of both.
This is one of my biggest frustrations with F Sport, especially on the LS and some more expensive models. I do not want entry level looking aluminum trim on a $100k flagship sedan. And quite frankly, I'd like something other than red or black leather, too. Lexus needs to offer some other trim options like open poor woods, smoked/black woods, etc or allow F Sport to be added to other packages like you note. The aluminum has been an economy car trim for almost two decades now... it's got to go.
lsu5508
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other. I cant see myself spending 40k-50k on a car and not getting a basic luxury amenity like leather seats. I understand the market for each car is different but i have to imagine there are alot of people that want some of both.
This is one of my biggest frustrations with F Sport, especially on the LS and some more expensive models. I do not want entry level looking aluminum trim on a $100k flagship sedan. And quite frankly, I'd like something other than red or black leather, too. Lexus needs to offer some other trim options like open poor woods, smoked/black woods, etc or allow F Sport to be added to other packages like you note. The aluminum has been an economy car trim for almost two decades now... it's got to go.
krew
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
Things that I forgot to ask: how do the low profile tyres (w/19-inch) on the F-Sport affect ride quality? Is there a notable difference in harshness and road noise compared to the high profile tyres (w/17 or 18-inch)? What compound does the F-Sport use? Is it sport softs, or long life hards? Does the hybrid use low rolling-resistance tyres?
krew
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
Things that I forgot to ask: how do the low profile tyres (w/19-inch) on the F-Sport affect ride quality? Is there a notable difference in harshness and road noise compared to the high profile tyres (w/17 or 18-inch)? What compound does the F-Sport use? Is it sport softs, or long life hards? Does the hybrid use low rolling-resistance tyres?
krew
Just wish I had more information for markets outside of North America. Should have something next week.
Things that I forgot to ask: how do the low profile tyres (w/19-inch) on the F-Sport affect ride quality? Is there a notable difference in harshness and road noise compared to the high profile tyres (w/17 or 18-inch)? What compound does the F-Sport use? Is it sport softs, or long life hards? Does the hybrid use low rolling-resistance tyres?
spwolf
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
FWIW, at least one, if not more of the post-review comments blasted Autoblog's Klein for those stupid comments.
spwolf
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
FWIW, at least one, if not more of the post-review comments blasted Autoblog's Klein for those stupid comments.
spwolf
I want to buy a Camry that has that same steering wheel and same instrumentation, lol. In fact, it is LS steering wheel and instrumentation, seems like someone got confused.
krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
FWIW, at least one, if not more of the post-review comments blasted Autoblog's Klein for those stupid comments.
S
ssun30
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
What do you mean security factor? You mean traction?

I watched a couple review and read a couple on the Lexus ES too. The general opinion among car enthusiasts is we want an AWD Lexus ES. However - as some reviews noted - the AWD system will help the car from wheel-spinning but they also mention the typical ES driver will not push it that hard where wheel-spin occurs. So the typical average Lexus ES driver doesn't need it. (I'm strictly talking about the US-Market by the way. The main demographics for the ES is an older buyer that is at least 50+ years of age - for the US.)

According to sales numbers since 2002: the Lexus ES consumers don't seem to care (want) AWD. They averaged high 40K to 70K in yearly unit sales without AWD since 2002. As for Canada - the Lexus ES peaked sales was in 2007 at 4000 units. Then every other year - the Lexus ES averages 2000 to 3000 units per year. Its safe to say, Canadian market is not priority to Lexus. Also - Canadian market has been averaging 2000 to 3000 sales per year consistently with FWD so I don't think its at a point where Lexus really feels they need to add FWD.
I also personally think a AWD Lexus ES is bad choice as a snow car. I would get a Audi or Subaru for that. Or an Acura with SH-AWD.
I also think the GS needed an AWD option because it was RWD base. FWD does pretty well in the snow.

The floor hump in the second row is poor evidence though because the Camry and Avalon has a second row hump as well. It could really just mean its a design que. Unless they are planning to add AWD to the Camry, Avalon and the ES? Which is unlikely.
What I mean by design que is: Toyota is trying to make their cars more sporty - a second row hump just looks more sporty in design language. It separates it from the Corolla and etc...
Another example: The 1G and 2G Acura TSX had the second row hump. The 3G TL has it as well. None of them had AWD offered to them. The rumor back in 2007 was the Acura TSX will get the RDX Turbo + AWD in the 2G because of the second row hump. Nothing happened. Another K24 N/A engine + FWD.

Agreed. "We are investigating it" is a loose phrase to not stir media. It can allow them to go yay or nay. We really can't tell what they mean by that phrase, hell, they could have just said it and not be doing anything at all.

These are just my opinions and assumption for Toyota, anyways. They haven't been making cars in the car enthusiasts mind-set for a long time. This is why TMC is so rich.

spwolf
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
The F-Sport model does handles and feels better than the standard ES. I agree. Its because of the different tuning of the suspensions. However - many reviewers I read - they notice its only a subtle change because the handling is some compromised by the FWD. That's where I'm just basing everything from.

krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
From what I took from the Autoblog review, I think he means the interior is similarity put together (as in the location of everything is pretty much the same - interchangeable). But overall - I really have no clue what hes talking about.... Lol. But - benefit of the doubt - I do see some "Camry-ness" if I stare at it for long enough.

Gecko
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Agreed. +1 Good point. However - I think the biggest attractiveness to current line-up of F-Sport models is the digital gauges. With the new Lexus that are coming out, they'll be offering both digital gauges and LFA style gauges. I believe the Lexus RX packaging isn't also as restrictive as the ES because you can have leather seats on the Lexus RX F-Sport.
S
ssun30
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
What do you mean security factor? You mean traction?

I watched a couple review and read a couple on the Lexus ES too. The general opinion among car enthusiasts is we want an AWD Lexus ES. However - as some reviews noted - the AWD system will help the car from wheel-spinning but they also mention the typical ES driver will not push it that hard where wheel-spin occurs. So the typical average Lexus ES driver doesn't need it. (I'm strictly talking about the US-Market by the way. The main demographics for the ES is an older buyer that is at least 50+ years of age - for the US.)

According to sales numbers since 2002: the Lexus ES consumers don't seem to care (want) AWD. They averaged high 40K to 70K in yearly unit sales without AWD since 2002. As for Canada - the Lexus ES peaked sales was in 2007 at 4000 units. Then every other year - the Lexus ES averages 2000 to 3000 units per year. Its safe to say, Canadian market is not priority to Lexus. Also - Canadian market has been averaging 2000 to 3000 sales per year consistently with FWD so I don't think its at a point where Lexus really feels they need to add FWD.
I also personally think a AWD Lexus ES is bad choice as a snow car. I would get a Audi or Subaru for that. Or an Acura with SH-AWD.
I also think the GS needed an AWD option because it was RWD base. FWD does pretty well in the snow.

The floor hump in the second row is poor evidence though because the Camry and Avalon has a second row hump as well. It could really just mean its a design que. Unless they are planning to add AWD to the Camry, Avalon and the ES? Which is unlikely.
What I mean by design que is: Toyota is trying to make their cars more sporty - a second row hump just looks more sporty in design language. It separates it from the Corolla and etc...
Another example: The 1G and 2G Acura TSX had the second row hump. The 3G TL has it as well. None of them had AWD offered to them. The rumor back in 2007 was the Acura TSX will get the RDX Turbo + AWD in the 2G because of the second row hump. Nothing happened. Another K24 N/A engine + FWD.

Agreed. "We are investigating it" is a loose phrase to not stir media. It can allow them to go yay or nay. We really can't tell what they mean by that phrase, hell, they could have just said it and not be doing anything at all.

These are just my opinions and assumption for Toyota, anyways. They haven't been making cars in the car enthusiasts mind-set for a long time. This is why TMC is so rich.

spwolf
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
The F-Sport model does handles and feels better than the standard ES. I agree. Its because of the different tuning of the suspensions. However - many reviewers I read - they notice its only a subtle change because the handling is some compromised by the FWD. That's where I'm just basing everything from.

krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
From what I took from the Autoblog review, I think he means the interior is similarity put together (as in the location of everything is pretty much the same - interchangeable). But overall - I really have no clue what hes talking about.... Lol. But - benefit of the doubt - I do see some "Camry-ness" if I stare at it for long enough.

Gecko
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Agreed. +1 Good point. However - I think the biggest attractiveness to current line-up of F-Sport models is the digital gauges. With the new Lexus that are coming out, they'll be offering both digital gauges and LFA style gauges. I believe the Lexus RX packaging isn't also as restrictive as the ES because you can have leather seats on the Lexus RX F-Sport.
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ssun30
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
What do you mean security factor? You mean traction?

I watched a couple review and read a couple on the Lexus ES too. The general opinion among car enthusiasts is we want an AWD Lexus ES. However - as some reviews noted - the AWD system will help the car from wheel-spinning but they also mention the typical ES driver will not push it that hard where wheel-spin occurs. So the typical average Lexus ES driver doesn't need it. (I'm strictly talking about the US-Market by the way. The main demographics for the ES is an older buyer that is at least 50+ years of age - for the US.)

According to sales numbers since 2002: the Lexus ES consumers don't seem to care (want) AWD. They averaged high 40K to 70K in yearly unit sales without AWD since 2002. As for Canada - the Lexus ES peaked sales was in 2007 at 4000 units. Then every other year - the Lexus ES averages 2000 to 3000 units per year. Its safe to say, Canadian market is not priority to Lexus. Also - Canadian market has been averaging 2000 to 3000 sales per year consistently with FWD so I don't think its at a point where Lexus really feels they need to add FWD.
I also personally think a AWD Lexus ES is bad choice as a snow car. I would get a Audi or Subaru for that. Or an Acura with SH-AWD.
I also think the GS needed an AWD option because it was RWD base. FWD does pretty well in the snow.

The floor hump in the second row is poor evidence though because the Camry and Avalon has a second row hump as well. It could really just mean its a design que. Unless they are planning to add AWD to the Camry, Avalon and the ES? Which is unlikely.
What I mean by design que is: Toyota is trying to make their cars more sporty - a second row hump just looks more sporty in design language. It separates it from the Corolla and etc...
Another example: The 1G and 2G Acura TSX had the second row hump. The 3G TL has it as well. None of them had AWD offered to them. The rumor back in 2007 was the Acura TSX will get the RDX Turbo + AWD in the 2G because of the second row hump. Nothing happened. Another K24 N/A engine + FWD.

Agreed. "We are investigating it" is a loose phrase to not stir media. It can allow them to go yay or nay. We really can't tell what they mean by that phrase, hell, they could have just said it and not be doing anything at all.

These are just my opinions and assumption for Toyota, anyways. They haven't been making cars in the car enthusiasts mind-set for a long time. This is why TMC is so rich.

spwolf
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
The F-Sport model does handles and feels better than the standard ES. I agree. Its because of the different tuning of the suspensions. However - many reviewers I read - they notice its only a subtle change because the handling is some compromised by the FWD. That's where I'm just basing everything from.

krew
I suppose the Camry and ES share the same interior -- I mean, both have steering wheels, instrument panels, seats, doors handles, some buttons, a glovebox, a center console, pedals, a stereo, cup holders.

Maybe he meant similar color schemes??
From what I took from the Autoblog review, I think he means the interior is similarity put together (as in the location of everything is pretty much the same - interchangeable). But overall - I really have no clue what hes talking about.... Lol. But - benefit of the doubt - I do see some "Camry-ness" if I stare at it for long enough.

Gecko
Agreed, but one thing to note. Remember when they announced the F sport package on the RX and everyone laughed, said it was unnecessary and that nobody would buy it? Look now! ES F-Sport could prove to be very popular, IMO.
Agreed. +1 Good point. However - I think the biggest attractiveness to current line-up of F-Sport models is the digital gauges. With the new Lexus that are coming out, they'll be offering both digital gauges and LFA style gauges. I believe the Lexus RX packaging isn't also as restrictive as the ES because you can have leather seats on the Lexus RX F-Sport.
As to the AWD, while all the rumors say it is coming, lets keep in mind that AWD take rate is something like 8% in the USA and much less in Europe.
As to the AWD, while all the rumors say it is coming, lets keep in mind that AWD take rate is something like 8% in the USA and much less in Europe.

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