Driving the All-New 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h


Lexus Enthusiast editor Kevin Watts traveled to Nashville, Tennessee last month to test drive the all-new 2019 Lexus ES 350 & ES 300h hybrid. This is his personal impressions of the car, a full technical overview was posted last week.

For one moment, forget about the new Lexus ES sedan. Instead, think about every ES previous, and how you would describe it. It would likely be with words like Comfortable or Predictable, perhaps Conservative or even Dull if you were being less charitable.

For six generations, the ES has epitomized the old-school approach to luxury vehicles by being plush and dependable, never pushing the envelope or stepping outside of the lines. As a formula, the success is undeniable — Lexus has sold 2.12 million ES sedans since 1989, with over 1 million in the USA alone.

But that was then, and this is now. Sedan sales used to be able to support the IS sports sedan, the GS mid-size sedan, and the ES that straddled the two in price and size, respectively. Now, the entire automotive market thinks only of crossovers & SUVS, and Lexus has to be selective when updating its sedan lineup.

Enter the seventh-generation ES, a sedan that moves the needle closer to mid-size luxury in class and quality, while maintaining its price position as an entry-level luxury car. The times have changed, and the formula must change with it.


In the past, there’s been a hard limit in terms of the ES design. Despite the similarities in character to the LS flagship, Lexus has been mindful to maintain a respectful distance between the two models. This is no longer the case with the new model, as the ES now borrows from the LS sedan extensively. Even so, it’s only in the broad strokes — the seventh-generation ES is a much simpler design, free from the trappings of being a flagship.

My mixed feelings on the waterfall grille of the standard model have subsided somewhat, though I much prefer the styling of the ES F SPORT on the whole. There are certain configurations of color and angle where the car looks more expensive and upscale than necessary.

(As for the new colors: Sunlit Green is surprisingly intense with a wide spectrum depending on lighting. Moonbeam Beige Metallic is not my thing.)


Inside, the cabin is dominated by the 12.3-inch multimedia display, to the point where the rest of the interior practically fades away. It’s well enough that the biggest upgrade happens behind that screen, with the introduction of Apple CarPlay and the integration of the Amazon Alexa voice service.

Lexus ES Interior

There will be the usual complaints about the Remote Touch controller, which appears as a touchpad in the ES, but the new openness of the Lexus infotainment software makes manual input feel archaic. Voice control is fluid, working well regardless of the preferred service.

After so many years without support, having Apple CarPlay should be the turning point in discussing Lexus infotainment. Lack of Google integration is a valid complaint, but anyone in the Apple or Amazon ecosystem will be very happy.

(Unfortunate that the in-car Alexa must be launched every time the car is turned on, but there’s surely a contingent of buyers that are happy for that additional layer of privacy.)

For the rest of the cabin, some point-form from my notes:

  • The “wave” leather pattern available with some packages is subtle in appearance but bold in design. Lexus took a real chance adding texture to the trim, but it ends up elevating the interior.
  • A full black interior does the cabin no favors, as it hides the details and highlights the plastics. On the flip side, the Circuit Red interior is brilliant, perfectly in line with F SPORT while keeping a semblance of maturity expected with the ES.
  • There just isn’t enough wood trim in the cabin, though it does allow for a nice upgrade in the mid-cycle refresh down the line.

While I made sure to drive the standard ES 350 and the hybrid ES 300h, I was unable to escape the siren call of the Ultra White ES 350 F SPORT and its Circuit Red interior. There will be those that deride the very existence of a front-wheel-drive ES performance package, but the benefits are real and pronounced.

As expected, the upgrades all center on the driver — the steering wheel is leather-wrapped and thicker, the seats have extended side bolsters, there’s aluminum pedals and a G-Force gauge in the instrument panel. An Adaptive Variable Suspension is standard.

Lexus ES Driving

The thing that sold me was the steering, where the ES F SPORT is a significant upgrade over the standard model. There’s more weight to the wheel, providing better feedback and increasing the luxury factor of the driving experience. Again, the ES emulates a more expensive car in a very positive way.

(It should be noted that steering feel becomes much heavier in Sport mode for both Luxury and F Sport models.)


There’s a point during the day when I’m out in an ES 300h, driving around the Tennessee countryside, looking for somewhere to take photos and maybe shoot a video. My expectation of a quick turnaround quickly subsides, and I find myself driving aimlessly, pulling into small driveways, backing out onto busy roads, trying to find a patch of privacy with a good view.

Here’s the kicker — I never end up finding a spot. 40 minutes in the southern wilderness, and not a photo opportunity anywhere. But in the process, I do learn a couple things about the ES, the hybrid in particular.

Lexus ES Driving

Where the ES F SPORT feels like a distant relative to the previous generation, the ES hybrid is more evolutionary in its handling — light to the touch, but still grounded on the road.

The ES 300h is whisper quiet at moderate load, but even with the additional hybrid frequency-specific sound dampening, I’m not a fan of the engine & electric interplay. During heightened acceleration, the whine is audible and mechanical, like a washing machine spinning too fast.

But the driving experience is almost besides the point, because the ES 300h delivers a combined 44 mpg for city & highway driving. Outside of a plug-in, there is no more fuel-efficient luxury car available in the USA. I’m convinced my IQ went up a few points in my time behind the wheel.


In a lucky turn of events, the standard ES 350 is the last car I drive — it’s an amalgamation of the other two cars, with the F SPORT’s V6 and its eight-speed transmission with the lighter driving touch of the ES 300h.

If you have any familiarity with the ES sedan over the years, and perhaps are looking to capture that classic experience, the ES 350 is the car for you. The core experience remains the same — the cabin is still comfortably isolating, and the driving remains suitably effortless. The drive back to the hotel is a breeze, just as you would hope for after a long day.


Lexus ES Final

So what words would I use to describe this new ES? Comfortable most certainly, but I would add Confident and even Compelling as new qualities. Lexus may want to position this car against the Mercedes C-Class & Audi A4, but its true competitors are a class above and $10,000 more expensive. There is a lot of car for the money here.

This leads to wondering about how the front-wheel drive of the ES will compete against the rear-wheel drive performance of the E-Class or the all-wheel drive of the A6, but this is only one part of the formula. The better question is, how can Mercedes and Audi afford to compete with this car?

FeaturesLexus ES: Sixth Generation
Comments
L
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other. I cant see myself spending 40k-50k on a car and not getting a basic luxury amenity like leather seats. I understand the market for each car is different but i have to imagine there are alot of people that want some of both.
S
lsu5508
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other.
Its pretty pick and choose, in this case. If you want luxury or sporty appearance. Similar how Acura TLX/RDX won't let you Advance Pack if you do A-Spec.

Now obviously its your money, but my advice would be to option for the Luxury or Ultra Luxury and skip the F-Sport if you want a 2019 ES.

The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.

Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
S
lsu5508
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other.
Its pretty pick and choose, in this case. If you want luxury or sporty appearance. Similar how Acura TLX/RDX won't let you Advance Pack if you do A-Spec.

Now obviously its your money, but my advice would be to option for the Luxury or Ultra Luxury and skip the F-Sport if you want a 2019 ES.

The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.

Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
S
lsu5508
The f-sport exterior looks great but to me the red interior is just not attractive for an everyday car and the black or black just looks boring in the videos i have watched.. The option of leather and a different trim package would seal the deal for me on the f-sport but now i am left having to choose one or the other.
Its pretty pick and choose, in this case. If you want luxury or sporty appearance. Similar how Acura TLX/RDX won't let you Advance Pack if you do A-Spec.

Now obviously its your money, but my advice would be to option for the Luxury or Ultra Luxury and skip the F-Sport if you want a 2019 ES.

The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.

Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
Sakura
Its pretty pick and choose, in this case. If you want luxury or sporty appearance. Similar how Acura TLX/RDX won't let you Advance Pack if you do A-Spec.

Now obviously its your money, but my advice would be to option for the Luxury or Ultra Luxury and skip the F-Sport if you want a 2019 ES.

The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.

Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
Sakura
Its pretty pick and choose, in this case. If you want luxury or sporty appearance. Similar how Acura TLX/RDX won't let you Advance Pack if you do A-Spec.

Now obviously its your money, but my advice would be to option for the Luxury or Ultra Luxury and skip the F-Sport if you want a 2019 ES.

The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.

Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
Sakura
Its pretty pick and choose, in this case. If you want luxury or sporty appearance. Similar how Acura TLX/RDX won't let you Advance Pack if you do A-Spec.

Now obviously its your money, but my advice would be to option for the Luxury or Ultra Luxury and skip the F-Sport if you want a 2019 ES.

The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.

Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
L
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
You are not wrong it just sucks that you cant have the high end interior with the f-sport. Just because i want a great handling car does not mean i dont want leather seats, an interior color other than black or red or an attractive trim package.I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it in person though.
L
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
You are not wrong it just sucks that you cant have the high end interior with the f-sport. Just because i want a great handling car does not mean i dont want leather seats, an interior color other than black or red or an attractive trim package.I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it in person though.
L
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
You are not wrong it just sucks that you cant have the high end interior with the f-sport. Just because i want a great handling car does not mean i dont want leather seats, an interior color other than black or red or an attractive trim package.I’m going to reserve judgment until I see it in person though.
Amazing report
But honestly my eye catcher was this
[​IMG]

Dreaming if they turn this exactly as the next GS
Amazing report
But honestly my eye catcher was this
[​IMG]

Dreaming if they turn this exactly as the next GS
Amazing report
But honestly my eye catcher was this
[​IMG]

Dreaming if they turn this exactly as the next GS
Sakura
The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

Sakura
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

Sakura
Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Sakura
The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

Sakura
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

Sakura
Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Sakura
The F-Sport ES is pretty much just all appearance. There's only a subtle difference between the F-Sport ES to the Luxury ES in driving dynamics. With that being said - the Lexus ES is also weighed down by its own weight, front wheel drive and a MacPherson suspension set-up. With a 0-60 time of 6.6 seconds (respectable) but in context, its slow for a V6, because the Lexus IS300 Turbo (with less HP does it in 6.9 seconds). That's only a .3 second difference!
It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

Sakura
What I'm basically saying is - the F-Sport package is just not worth it, especially on a FWD car. The Lexus ES F-Sport won't beat anyone in a drag, doesn't handle like a RWD car in the hills/track, its big (so not nimble), and basically just not sporty - its just sporty looking. You are better off optioning for the luxury package and enjoy more comfort and luxurious features because that's what the Lexus ES is about.
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

Sakura
Similarity - the Lexus LS500 too. The F-Sport model restricts you from getting the Executive Package with Kiriko Glass (hand-cut glass door panels). With a car like the Lexus LS, you would want the Executive Pack and skip the F-Sport because the F-Sport won't do it justice.
This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
Another amazing job by Krew. I think all my questions are answered in that review.
S
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
Agree to disagree for this, I guess. I see it as more black and white for the Lexus ES because they are forcing you to either have F-Sport or Luxury Pack. It'll be less Black and White if they let you mix-package it. I would have loved it if we could get the Luxury Pack on top of the F-Sport pack. But they are making you choose Sport or Luxury - to me that's black/white. Either Apple or Orange.

Agreed. Its not a sports car - it never was meant to be one. That's why in my opinion, I see the luxury packages as more valuable and worth wild compared to the F-Sport. Some of the bells and whistles on both the Luxury and Ultra Luxury Pack seems more worth it to me than the F-Sport.

True. Overall review says the ES handles pretty decent for a FWD. However - from the reviews I saw - majority of them said the F-Sport + Sport+ mode changes were subtle, at best, changes to the handling. This is why, in my opinion, I would prefer the Lexus ES Luxury Pack. Similarly - I would prefer the Lexus LS with the Executive Pack with Kiriko (not available on F-Sport.) For these cars, I want the car to make me feel like home. If I wanted a F-Sport Lexus that's in the 50K, I'll get a IS350 F-Sport and skip the luxury stuff for the IS.

ssun30
1)It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

2)I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

3)You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

4) This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Ssun30, I numbered your quote to make it easier to reply to :)

1) Thanks for that info. I never knew that. I thought it was a bit odd the 19 Lexus ES350 with the 2GR-FKS can only run 6.6 seconds to 60. I assume it'll be a tad bit slower than the Camry XSE due to weight probably.

2) Agreed. The wheel-spin alone will be a good reason for them to add AWD. However - this is from a car enthusiast's perspective. From my experience of being a heavy Toyota shareholder, Toyota doesn't really make choices for the car enthusiast. They make most of their decision for the share-holder and what will generate more profit. If they feel like the AWD will sell and is it needed, they'll add it.
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.

3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. And to me, that's not worth the insane (near LS-like) features on the Ultra Luxury Pack.
But - the M Sport, AMG Line, and S-Line packages don't restrict you from getting the fancier luxury features. German's build are very liquid, you can option anything and pack anything regardless of design packages. However - Lexus and Acura restricts you.
Obviously - if an Ultra Luxury Pack F-Sport exist - I would love that. It would be amazing. But it doesn't, and since it doesn't, I personally would be more incline to take the Ultra Luxury Pack because I don't see a use in a F-Sport ES.
S
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
Agree to disagree for this, I guess. I see it as more black and white for the Lexus ES because they are forcing you to either have F-Sport or Luxury Pack. It'll be less Black and White if they let you mix-package it. I would have loved it if we could get the Luxury Pack on top of the F-Sport pack. But they are making you choose Sport or Luxury - to me that's black/white. Either Apple or Orange.

Agreed. Its not a sports car - it never was meant to be one. That's why in my opinion, I see the luxury packages as more valuable and worth wild compared to the F-Sport. Some of the bells and whistles on both the Luxury and Ultra Luxury Pack seems more worth it to me than the F-Sport.

True. Overall review says the ES handles pretty decent for a FWD. However - from the reviews I saw - majority of them said the F-Sport + Sport+ mode changes were subtle, at best, changes to the handling. This is why, in my opinion, I would prefer the Lexus ES Luxury Pack. Similarly - I would prefer the Lexus LS with the Executive Pack with Kiriko (not available on F-Sport.) For these cars, I want the car to make me feel like home. If I wanted a F-Sport Lexus that's in the 50K, I'll get a IS350 F-Sport and skip the luxury stuff for the IS.

ssun30
1)It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

2)I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

3)You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

4) This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Ssun30, I numbered your quote to make it easier to reply to :)

1) Thanks for that info. I never knew that. I thought it was a bit odd the 19 Lexus ES350 with the 2GR-FKS can only run 6.6 seconds to 60. I assume it'll be a tad bit slower than the Camry XSE due to weight probably.

2) Agreed. The wheel-spin alone will be a good reason for them to add AWD. However - this is from a car enthusiast's perspective. From my experience of being a heavy Toyota shareholder, Toyota doesn't really make choices for the car enthusiast. They make most of their decision for the share-holder and what will generate more profit. If they feel like the AWD will sell and is it needed, they'll add it.
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.

3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. And to me, that's not worth the insane (near LS-like) features on the Ultra Luxury Pack.
But - the M Sport, AMG Line, and S-Line packages don't restrict you from getting the fancier luxury features. German's build are very liquid, you can option anything and pack anything regardless of design packages. However - Lexus and Acura restricts you.
Obviously - if an Ultra Luxury Pack F-Sport exist - I would love that. It would be amazing. But it doesn't, and since it doesn't, I personally would be more incline to take the Ultra Luxury Pack because I don't see a use in a F-Sport ES.
S
spwolf
It is not black or white... F-Sport is fine if you want sportier ES, it is not a sports car, but goes and handles well according to all the reviews.
Agree to disagree for this, I guess. I see it as more black and white for the Lexus ES because they are forcing you to either have F-Sport or Luxury Pack. It'll be less Black and White if they let you mix-package it. I would have loved it if we could get the Luxury Pack on top of the F-Sport pack. But they are making you choose Sport or Luxury - to me that's black/white. Either Apple or Orange.

Agreed. Its not a sports car - it never was meant to be one. That's why in my opinion, I see the luxury packages as more valuable and worth wild compared to the F-Sport. Some of the bells and whistles on both the Luxury and Ultra Luxury Pack seems more worth it to me than the F-Sport.

True. Overall review says the ES handles pretty decent for a FWD. However - from the reviews I saw - majority of them said the F-Sport + Sport+ mode changes were subtle, at best, changes to the handling. This is why, in my opinion, I would prefer the Lexus ES Luxury Pack. Similarly - I would prefer the Lexus LS with the Executive Pack with Kiriko (not available on F-Sport.) For these cars, I want the car to make me feel like home. If I wanted a F-Sport Lexus that's in the 50K, I'll get a IS350 F-Sport and skip the luxury stuff for the IS.

ssun30
1)It's funny how Lexus posts overestimated acceleration figures for RWD cars but underestimated figures for FWD cars. The 5ES and 6ES are already tested to beat that number. Generally the ES350 are doing high-5s or low-6s, 1 second faster than the official number, with the 270hp 2GR-FE. On the other hand the LS500 is known to underdeliver by almost 1 second.

2)I doubt the 7ES will beat the 6ES by 0.5s (suggested by the official numbers) since the 6ES is already traction-limited. That extra horsepower seems to only cause more wheelspin on the 7ES, a good reason for them to add AWD. 5.8s is like the magic barrier that prevents FWD vehicles from getting any quicker, since weight transfer reduces grip at the front axle. One would need some special engineering tricks like those on the Type-R to get below that number. The new engine is mostly about fuel economy and wide power band.

3)You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.

4) This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Ssun30, I numbered your quote to make it easier to reply to :)

1) Thanks for that info. I never knew that. I thought it was a bit odd the 19 Lexus ES350 with the 2GR-FKS can only run 6.6 seconds to 60. I assume it'll be a tad bit slower than the Camry XSE due to weight probably.

2) Agreed. The wheel-spin alone will be a good reason for them to add AWD. However - this is from a car enthusiast's perspective. From my experience of being a heavy Toyota shareholder, Toyota doesn't really make choices for the car enthusiast. They make most of their decision for the share-holder and what will generate more profit. If they feel like the AWD will sell and is it needed, they'll add it.
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.

3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. And to me, that's not worth the insane (near LS-like) features on the Ultra Luxury Pack.
But - the M Sport, AMG Line, and S-Line packages don't restrict you from getting the fancier luxury features. German's build are very liquid, you can option anything and pack anything regardless of design packages. However - Lexus and Acura restricts you.
Obviously - if an Ultra Luxury Pack F-Sport exist - I would love that. It would be amazing. But it doesn't, and since it doesn't, I personally would be more incline to take the Ultra Luxury Pack because I don't see a use in a F-Sport ES.
Sakura
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
Sakura
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
Sakura
But I don't think they will because its not needed from the business side. The ES target demographic is highly unlikely to floor it to a point where wheel-spin occur. ES target demographic isn't demanding AWD - only car enthusiasts are. Adding AWD will also increase the price of the ES on the top end, which they don't want to do. You know they were anal about the price when they were already hell-bent at keeping it under 40K for base price. And because the ES is pretty much a Camry/Avalon, they would have to add AWD to all three cars - not just the ES.
ES target demographic will surely want AWD. As many reviewers pointed out, premium buyers want AWD for that security factor; it's not entirely about performance. Once current generation GS is discontinued, Lexus will have no substitute to offer in Northern U.S. not to mention Canada where AWD is a must. Therefore they will be offering AWD on ES. It's evident from the floor hump in the second row. Toyota representatives always say "we are investigating it" regardless of whether they are really doing it.
ssun30
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.


This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
ssun30
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.


This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
ssun30
You missed the point. F-sport is exactly about the appearance. It has a very high take rate because people just want a fancier exterior. For the same reason M Sport, AMG Sport, and S-line packages are very popular among BBA buyers. The NX and RX have nothing to do with handling dynamics or speed but they have F-sport packages anyway. It's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.


This has been brought up on this forum over and over again, but it doesn't seem Lexus will change their approach since F-Sport packages are selling so well. Again, it's a sad thing to happen but that's the way it is.
Well, as krew said, it handles and feels better... it is not just about appearance, unlike german packages where you can buy just external package without any other changes.

So in fact, Lexus F-Sport is actually a lot more comprehensive package than just standard M Sport, AMG Sport and S-Line.
Sakura
3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. A
but it does heavily effect handling and I bet when you try it you will discover that, just like @krew did.
Sakura
3) I wasn't suggesting that F-Sport models aren't good. I was suggesting, solely from the car enthusiasts perspective, the Ultra Luxury Pack will be better served for the ES than the F-Sport because the F-Sport doesn't really improve its overall handling. From the reviews I saw, there is only a subtle change/improvement to the ES handling. A
but it does heavily effect handling and I bet when you try it you will discover that, just like @krew did.

S