Lexus GS Sedan Not Going Anywhere, Will Continue Sales in North America

Carmaker1

And it is curtains for the GS indeed. :mad: Despite having brought cancellation rumour to surface in late 2016 straight from Japan, I backtracked upon discussing it some months later with a few parties in spring 2017. Last week, I spoke with a Lexus UK rep who I ran into at a Lexus dealer outside London. He has confirmed for me, it will indeed be solely replaced by the ES. The L10 successor is no longer on schedule. In now reviewing recently updated industry database info for suppliers, some still say the same info and a few state "TBD".

The idea for the UK market, is to offer the new ES as a discount alternative to the G30 5-Series and W213 E-Class, just as the LS was targeted as a discount alternative to the W222 (and upcoming W223 S-Class), that sits between the E-class and S-Class. A new GS will no longer be coming this decade.

This idea works with LS (somewhat), but with the ES, I don't know about that at all. It is not convincing to me and a terribly cynical marketing exercise.

As for the next IS sedan, he has seen that car and it is roughly 2 years away (UK market). The RC might be absorbed into the 4IS lineup, by 2022. The possibility of forgoing the entry level luxury 2-door market was not answered directly by him, as it product planning hasn't progressed to that point from what he currently knows.

Regarding the GS, I am very disappointed, after all this back and forth the past year. I want know why the individuals who confirmed 300B was coming last spring (to me privately), got their internal info from and how they missed any internal changes along the way. Especially if they attended internal showcases or had certain responsibilities, which provides privileged access.

And for those suggesting it will become a crossover, well...uhm...no it won't. :confused: Anything that uses the current nomenclature clearly will not bear the name GS, if anything other than a sedan. GX is already taken up, for the next 5 years at minimum, and GC =/= GS.

A 4-door, 4-seater sports car could bear the name GS though. Just not next year at this point. Simply put, if the GS is dead as a 4-door sedan, it is simply GONE. A crossover will never be a GS, particularly when a nameplate factors in. The LF-1 under Project 650B will utilize flagship nomenclature and cannot use "S" in its naming. LX SportCross makes more sense. Midsize RWD crossover will clash with RX and NX and I don't see them doing such a model anyway, outside of a flagship model a la LF-1.

Unless this car is still being developed so much on the low as an extremely niche product (like Ford GT), I can't understand why a new GS-F was ongoing some months ago?:confused:

Could not agree with you more - great post. All signs point to a late term termination for the GS project - no AWD on ES, last year Gazoo was quoted saying they were working on chassis and dynamics for next gen GS F, multitude of other things.

Funny thing to me is that Toyota has stated that sedans need to offer a unique driving experience that you can't get from CUVs - aka more engaging, sportier and more connected. Then they cancel RWD GS and push forward FWD ES.

As a premium brand with a high performance arm, using a midsize RWD GA-L platform (even if they changed the name to ES) makes a lot more business sense. Sharing costs, parts, platforms and powertrains with IS, LS, LC, LF-1 allows for a much greater opportunity to "scale up" for Lexus than "scaling down" by using Toyota FWD platforms.

Carmaker1

And it is curtains for the GS indeed. :mad: Despite having brought cancellation rumour to surface in late 2016 straight from Japan, I backtracked upon discussing it some months later with a few parties in spring 2017. Last week, I spoke with a Lexus UK rep who I ran into at a Lexus dealer outside London. He has confirmed for me, it will indeed be solely replaced by the ES. The L10 successor is no longer on schedule. In now reviewing recently updated industry database info for suppliers, some still say the same info and a few state "TBD".

The idea for the UK market, is to offer the new ES as a discount alternative to the G30 5-Series and W213 E-Class, just as the LS was targeted as a discount alternative to the W222 (and upcoming W223 S-Class), that sits between the E-class and S-Class. A new GS will no longer be coming this decade.

This idea works with LS (somewhat), but with the ES, I don't know about that at all. It is not convincing to me and a terribly cynical marketing exercise.

As for the next IS sedan, he has seen that car and it is roughly 2 years away (UK market). The RC might be absorbed into the 4IS lineup, by 2022. The possibility of forgoing the entry level luxury 2-door market was not answered directly by him, as it product planning hasn't progressed to that point from what he currently knows.

Regarding the GS, I am very disappointed, after all this back and forth the past year. I want know why the individuals who confirmed 300B was coming last spring (to me privately), got their internal info from and how they missed any internal changes along the way. Especially if they attended internal showcases or had certain responsibilities, which provides privileged access.

And for those suggesting it will become a crossover, well...uhm...no it won't. :confused: Anything that uses the current nomenclature clearly will not bear the name GS, if anything other than a sedan. GX is already taken up, for the next 5 years at minimum, and GC =/= GS.

A 4-door, 4-seater sports car could bear the name GS though. Just not next year at this point. Simply put, if the GS is dead as a 4-door sedan, it is simply GONE. A crossover will never be a GS, particularly when a nameplate factors in. The LF-1 under Project 650B will utilize flagship nomenclature and cannot use "S" in its naming. LX SportCross makes more sense. Midsize RWD crossover will clash with RX and NX and I don't see them doing such a model anyway, outside of a flagship model a la LF-1.

Unless this car is still being developed so much on the low as an extremely niche product (like Ford GT), I can't understand why a new GS-F was ongoing some months ago?:confused:

Could not agree with you more - great post. All signs point to a late term termination for the GS project - no AWD on ES, last year Gazoo was quoted saying they were working on chassis and dynamics for next gen GS F, multitude of other things.

Funny thing to me is that Toyota has stated that sedans need to offer a unique driving experience that you can't get from CUVs - aka more engaging, sportier and more connected. Then they cancel RWD GS and push forward FWD ES.

As a premium brand with a high performance arm, using a midsize RWD GA-L platform (even if they changed the name to ES) makes a lot more business sense. Sharing costs, parts, platforms and powertrains with IS, LS, LC, LF-1 allows for a much greater opportunity to "scale up" for Lexus than "scaling down" by using Toyota FWD platforms.

Gecko

Could not agree with you more - great post. All signs point to a late term termination for the GS project - no AWD on ES, last year Gazoo was quoted saying they were working on chassis and dynamics for next gen GS F, multitude of other things.

Funny thing to me is that Toyota has stated that sedans need to offer a unique driving experience that you can't get from CUVs - aka more engaging, sportier and more connected. Then they cancel RWD GS and push forward FWD ES.

As a premium brand with a high performance arm, using a midsize RWD GA-L platform (even if they changed the name to ES) makes a lot more business sense. Sharing costs, parts, platforms and powertrains with IS, LS, LC, LF-1 allows for a much greater opportunity to "scale up" for Lexus than "scaling down" by using Toyota FWD platforms.

Maybe the next IS will grow in size and be a sportier stylish sedan rather than a compact sedan. VW has the Passat mostly sold as wagon, but they have the Aerton. Peugeot 508 sedan got replaced by something more 'stylish'. The next IS if it grows could replace the GS market share to some extent, it will also allow a wider price bracket, from 300h versions to TTV6 F version. This also means Lexus does not need a TTV8. How sure are we it is coming? The long rumored new BMW 4.0l V8 is still not out with the new M8, they use the same engine for the third generation.

Gecko

Could not agree with you more - great post. All signs point to a late term termination for the GS project - no AWD on ES, last year Gazoo was quoted saying they were working on chassis and dynamics for next gen GS F, multitude of other things.

Funny thing to me is that Toyota has stated that sedans need to offer a unique driving experience that you can't get from CUVs - aka more engaging, sportier and more connected. Then they cancel RWD GS and push forward FWD ES.

As a premium brand with a high performance arm, using a midsize RWD GA-L platform (even if they changed the name to ES) makes a lot more business sense. Sharing costs, parts, platforms and powertrains with IS, LS, LC, LF-1 allows for a much greater opportunity to "scale up" for Lexus than "scaling down" by using Toyota FWD platforms.

Maybe the next IS will grow in size and be a sportier stylish sedan rather than a compact sedan. VW has the Passat mostly sold as wagon, but they have the Aerton. Peugeot 508 sedan got replaced by something more 'stylish'. The next IS if it grows could replace the GS market share to some extent, it will also allow a wider price bracket, from 300h versions to TTV6 F version. This also means Lexus does not need a TTV8. How sure are we it is coming? The long rumored new BMW 4.0l V8 is still not out with the new M8, they use the same engine for the third generation.

Gecko

Could not agree with you more - great post. All signs point to a late term termination for the GS project - no AWD on ES, last year Gazoo was quoted saying they were working on chassis and dynamics for next gen GS F, multitude of other things.

Funny thing to me is that Toyota has stated that sedans need to offer a unique driving experience that you can't get from CUVs - aka more engaging, sportier and more connected. Then they cancel RWD GS and push forward FWD ES.

As a premium brand with a high performance arm, using a midsize RWD GA-L platform (even if they changed the name to ES) makes a lot more business sense. Sharing costs, parts, platforms and powertrains with IS, LS, LC, LF-1 allows for a much greater opportunity to "scale up" for Lexus than "scaling down" by using Toyota FWD platforms.

Maybe the next IS will grow in size and be a sportier stylish sedan rather than a compact sedan. VW has the Passat mostly sold as wagon, but they have the Aerton. Peugeot 508 sedan got replaced by something more 'stylish'. The next IS if it grows could replace the GS market share to some extent, it will also allow a wider price bracket, from 300h versions to TTV6 F version. This also means Lexus does not need a TTV8. How sure are we it is coming? The long rumored new BMW 4.0l V8 is still not out with the new M8, they use the same engine for the third generation.

Carmaker1

And it is curtains for the GS indeed. :mad: Despite having brought cancellation rumour to surface in late 2016 straight from Japan, I backtracked upon discussing it some months later with a few parties in spring 2017. Last week, I spoke with a Lexus UK rep who I ran into at a Lexus dealer outside London. He has confirmed for me, it will indeed be solely replaced by the ES. The L10 successor is no longer on schedule. In now reviewing recently updated industry database info for suppliers, some still say the same info and a few state "TBD".

The idea for the UK market, is to offer the new ES as a discount alternative to the G30 5-Series and W213 E-Class, just as the LS was targeted as a discount alternative to the W222 (and upcoming W223 S-Class), that sits between the E-class and S-Class. A new GS will no longer be coming this decade.

This idea works with LS (somewhat), but with the ES, I don't know about that at all. It is not convincing to me and a terribly cynical marketing exercise.

As for the next IS sedan, he has seen that car and it is roughly 2 years away (UK market). The RC might be absorbed into the 4IS lineup, by 2022. The possibility of forgoing the entry level luxury 2-door market was not answered directly by him, as it product planning hasn't progressed to that point from what he currently knows.

Regarding the GS, I am very disappointed, after all this back and forth the past year. I want know why the individuals who confirmed 300B was coming last spring (to me privately), got their internal info from and how they missed any internal changes along the way. Especially if they attended internal showcases or had certain responsibilities, which provides privileged access.

And for those suggesting it will become a crossover, well...uhm...no it won't. :confused: Anything that uses the current nomenclature clearly will not bear the name GS, if anything other than a sedan. GX is already taken up, for the next 5 years at minimum, and GC =/= GS.

A 4-door, 4-seater sports car could bear the name GS though. Just not next year at this point. Simply put, if the GS is dead as a 4-door sedan, it is simply GONE. A crossover will never be a GS, particularly when a nameplate factors in. The LF-1 under Project 650B will utilize flagship nomenclature and cannot use "S" in its naming. LX SportCross makes more sense. Midsize RWD crossover will clash with RX and NX and I don't see them doing such a model anyway, outside of a flagship model a la LF-1.

Unless this car is still being developed so much on the low as an extremely niche product (like Ford GT), I can't understand why a new GS-F was ongoing some months ago?:confused:

That's absolutely disgusting from Lexus. Damn those stupid bean counters and soulless cheap executives. THIS IS NOT WHAT LEXUS IS ABOUT. They're slowly becoming a victim of themselves for everything and don't have the balls to step up. Man I actually thought you guys were capable of something.

I honestly need some form of optimism, because all of mine has ran out, and that's not a little amount either. How the hell can Lexus time and time again just give up on themselves and throw their hands in the air and say "oh well". I am genuinely fuming right now.

Okay Lexus, it's time to end the bullshit and come to us straight. Stop making everything all smoke and mirrors. Tell us what you want face to face. You lied to us that you wanted to become an aspirational brand. Having genuine great models following the philosophy of sporting credentials yet luxurious or vise versa. If you want to be a cushy brand with soul levels of a refrigerator, fine, then be honest about it. If all you want to do is chase sales, then axe all of your models except the ES, RX, NX, UX, and your other anemic models. You'll still get sales right? Don't tell us something that you're going to pursue and then back up on your goals/core competencies. We're honestly sick of all the lies and false hype that's being produced. And if Carmaker1's words do actually come to fruition, where there won't be a RC, GS, a more mundane IS and a messy lineup and who knows what the hell can happen in which will only stir more confusion and animosity towards this great brand, then I am calling it quits. I have been waiting for 7 years, after Akio Toyoda called for a revolution for Lexus during the Pebble Beach Concurs D'Elegance, aching for something to happen. Isn't 7 years enough time for a multibillion dollar company?

Your actions have no excuses. Sales are a terrible reason to control your lineup. A luxury brand should have no excuses when building a car and it should revolve around the experience the customer is having. If you seriously think this will attract younger buyers by axing key players in your lineup then you're flat out stupid. Don't expect non-Lexus fans like us to not call you boring. You've literally released a permanent FWD ES for its 7th generation in the year of 2018. Where AWD was supposed to be expected and the year where you separate from Toyota. Despite this, we still were optimistic and believed you guys weren't done with the GS yet, until Carmaker1 reveals the news.

I honestly don't know what to say and I am simply tired of being let down time and time again.

Yes, I've only joined this forum earlier this year, it may not seem like I have been a fan of Lexus for a long time, but believe me, I was. I am sick of stupid politics controlling everything.

I think I'll take a break from these forums for a while, because despite I am still a massive Lexus fan, I am so tired of the disappointment. No no, I won't cheat on y'all and fully move on to another brand LOL, but I've been quite active on these forums, and these news don't make it any better. So, see you all for now, I'll pop in time and time again. When things turn good I'll fire back up.

Carmaker1

And it is curtains for the GS indeed. :mad: Despite having brought cancellation rumour to surface in late 2016 straight from Japan, I backtracked upon discussing it some months later with a few parties in spring 2017. Last week, I spoke with a Lexus UK rep who I ran into at a Lexus dealer outside London. He has confirmed for me, it will indeed be solely replaced by the ES. The L10 successor is no longer on schedule. In now reviewing recently updated industry database info for suppliers, some still say the same info and a few state "TBD".

The idea for the UK market, is to offer the new ES as a discount alternative to the G30 5-Series and W213 E-Class, just as the LS was targeted as a discount alternative to the W222 (and upcoming W223 S-Class), that sits between the E-class and S-Class. A new GS will no longer be coming this decade.

This idea works with LS (somewhat), but with the ES, I don't know about that at all. It is not convincing to me and a terribly cynical marketing exercise.

As for the next IS sedan, he has seen that car and it is roughly 2 years away (UK market). The RC might be absorbed into the 4IS lineup, by 2022. The possibility of forgoing the entry level luxury 2-door market was not answered directly by him, as it product planning hasn't progressed to that point from what he currently knows.

Regarding the GS, I am very disappointed, after all this back and forth the past year. I want know why the individuals who confirmed 300B was coming last spring (to me privately), got their internal info from and how they missed any internal changes along the way. Especially if they attended internal showcases or had certain responsibilities, which provides privileged access.

And for those suggesting it will become a crossover, well...uhm...no it won't. :confused: Anything that uses the current nomenclature clearly will not bear the name GS, if anything other than a sedan. GX is already taken up, for the next 5 years at minimum, and GC =/= GS.

A 4-door, 4-seater sports car could bear the name GS though. Just not next year at this point. Simply put, if the GS is dead as a 4-door sedan, it is simply GONE. A crossover will never be a GS, particularly when a nameplate factors in. The LF-1 under Project 650B will utilize flagship nomenclature and cannot use "S" in its naming. LX SportCross makes more sense. Midsize RWD crossover will clash with RX and NX and I don't see them doing such a model anyway, outside of a flagship model a la LF-1.

Unless this car is still being developed so much on the low as an extremely niche product (like Ford GT), I can't understand why a new GS-F was ongoing some months ago?:confused:

That's absolutely disgusting from Lexus. Damn those stupid bean counters and soulless cheap executives. THIS IS NOT WHAT LEXUS IS ABOUT. They're slowly becoming a victim of themselves for everything and don't have the balls to step up. Man I actually thought you guys were capable of something.

I honestly need some form of optimism, because all of mine has ran out, and that's not a little amount either. How the hell can Lexus time and time again just give up on themselves and throw their hands in the air and say "oh well". I am genuinely fuming right now.

Okay Lexus, it's time to end the bullshit and come to us straight. Stop making everything all smoke and mirrors. Tell us what you want face to face. You lied to us that you wanted to become an aspirational brand. Having genuine great models following the philosophy of sporting credentials yet luxurious or vise versa. If you want to be a cushy brand with soul levels of a refrigerator, fine, then be honest about it. If all you want to do is chase sales, then axe all of your models except the ES, RX, NX, UX, and your other anemic models. You'll still get sales right? Don't tell us something that you're going to pursue and then back up on your goals/core competencies. We're honestly sick of all the lies and false hype that's being produced. And if Carmaker1's words do actually come to fruition, where there won't be a RC, GS, a more mundane IS and a messy lineup and who knows what the hell can happen in which will only stir more confusion and animosity towards this great brand, then I am calling it quits. I have been waiting for 7 years, after Akio Toyoda called for a revolution for Lexus during the Pebble Beach Concurs D'Elegance, aching for something to happen. Isn't 7 years enough time for a multibillion dollar company?

Your actions have no excuses. Sales are a terrible reason to control your lineup. A luxury brand should have no excuses when building a car and it should revolve around the experience the customer is having. If you seriously think this will attract younger buyers by axing key players in your lineup then you're flat out stupid. Don't expect non-Lexus fans like us to not call you boring. You've literally released a permanent FWD ES for its 7th generation in the year of 2018. Where AWD was supposed to be expected and the year where you separate from Toyota. Despite this, we still were optimistic and believed you guys weren't done with the GS yet, until Carmaker1 reveals the news.

I honestly don't know what to say and I am simply tired of being let down time and time again.

Yes, I've only joined this forum earlier this year, it may not seem like I have been a fan of Lexus for a long time, but believe me, I was. I am sick of stupid politics controlling everything.

I think I'll take a break from these forums for a while, because despite I am still a massive Lexus fan, I am so tired of the disappointment. No no, I won't cheat on y'all and fully move on to another brand LOL, but I've been quite active on these forums, and these news don't make it any better. So, see you all for now, I'll pop in time and time again. When things turn good I'll fire back up.

Carmaker1

And it is curtains for the GS indeed. :mad: Despite having brought cancellation rumour to surface in late 2016 straight from Japan, I backtracked upon discussing it some months later with a few parties in spring 2017. Last week, I spoke with a Lexus UK rep who I ran into at a Lexus dealer outside London. He has confirmed for me, it will indeed be solely replaced by the ES. The L10 successor is no longer on schedule. In now reviewing recently updated industry database info for suppliers, some still say the same info and a few state "TBD".

The idea for the UK market, is to offer the new ES as a discount alternative to the G30 5-Series and W213 E-Class, just as the LS was targeted as a discount alternative to the W222 (and upcoming W223 S-Class), that sits between the E-class and S-Class. A new GS will no longer be coming this decade.

This idea works with LS (somewhat), but with the ES, I don't know about that at all. It is not convincing to me and a terribly cynical marketing exercise.

As for the next IS sedan, he has seen that car and it is roughly 2 years away (UK market). The RC might be absorbed into the 4IS lineup, by 2022. The possibility of forgoing the entry level luxury 2-door market was not answered directly by him, as it product planning hasn't progressed to that point from what he currently knows.

Regarding the GS, I am very disappointed, after all this back and forth the past year. I want know why the individuals who confirmed 300B was coming last spring (to me privately), got their internal info from and how they missed any internal changes along the way. Especially if they attended internal showcases or had certain responsibilities, which provides privileged access.

And for those suggesting it will become a crossover, well...uhm...no it won't. :confused: Anything that uses the current nomenclature clearly will not bear the name GS, if anything other than a sedan. GX is already taken up, for the next 5 years at minimum, and GC =/= GS.

A 4-door, 4-seater sports car could bear the name GS though. Just not next year at this point. Simply put, if the GS is dead as a 4-door sedan, it is simply GONE. A crossover will never be a GS, particularly when a nameplate factors in. The LF-1 under Project 650B will utilize flagship nomenclature and cannot use "S" in its naming. LX SportCross makes more sense. Midsize RWD crossover will clash with RX and NX and I don't see them doing such a model anyway, outside of a flagship model a la LF-1.

Unless this car is still being developed so much on the low as an extremely niche product (like Ford GT), I can't understand why a new GS-F was ongoing some months ago?:confused:

That's absolutely disgusting from Lexus. Damn those stupid bean counters and soulless cheap executives. THIS IS NOT WHAT LEXUS IS ABOUT. They're slowly becoming a victim of themselves for everything and don't have the balls to step up. Man I actually thought you guys were capable of something.

I honestly need some form of optimism, because all of mine has ran out, and that's not a little amount either. How the hell can Lexus time and time again just give up on themselves and throw their hands in the air and say "oh well". I am genuinely fuming right now.

Okay Lexus, it's time to end the bullshit and come to us straight. Stop making everything all smoke and mirrors. Tell us what you want face to face. You lied to us that you wanted to become an aspirational brand. Having genuine great models following the philosophy of sporting credentials yet luxurious or vise versa. If you want to be a cushy brand with soul levels of a refrigerator, fine, then be honest about it. If all you want to do is chase sales, then axe all of your models except the ES, RX, NX, UX, and your other anemic models. You'll still get sales right? Don't tell us something that you're going to pursue and then back up on your goals/core competencies. We're honestly sick of all the lies and false hype that's being produced. And if Carmaker1's words do actually come to fruition, where there won't be a RC, GS, a more mundane IS and a messy lineup and who knows what the hell can happen in which will only stir more confusion and animosity towards this great brand, then I am calling it quits. I have been waiting for 7 years, after Akio Toyoda called for a revolution for Lexus during the Pebble Beach Concurs D'Elegance, aching for something to happen. Isn't 7 years enough time for a multibillion dollar company?

Your actions have no excuses. Sales are a terrible reason to control your lineup. A luxury brand should have no excuses when building a car and it should revolve around the experience the customer is having. If you seriously think this will attract younger buyers by axing key players in your lineup then you're flat out stupid. Don't expect non-Lexus fans like us to not call you boring. You've literally released a permanent FWD ES for its 7th generation in the year of 2018. Where AWD was supposed to be expected and the year where you separate from Toyota. Despite this, we still were optimistic and believed you guys weren't done with the GS yet, until Carmaker1 reveals the news.

I honestly don't know what to say and I am simply tired of being let down time and time again.

Yes, I've only joined this forum earlier this year, it may not seem like I have been a fan of Lexus for a long time, but believe me, I was. I am sick of stupid politics controlling everything.

I think I'll take a break from these forums for a while, because despite I am still a massive Lexus fan, I am so tired of the disappointment. No no, I won't cheat on y'all and fully move on to another brand LOL, but I've been quite active on these forums, and these news don't make it any better. So, see you all for now, I'll pop in time and time again. When things turn good I'll fire back up.

Levi

Maybe the next IS will grow in size and be a sportier stylish sedan rather than a compact sedan. VW has the Passat mostly sold as wagon, but they have the Aerton. Peugeot 508 sedan got replaced by something more 'stylish'. The next IS if it grows could replace the GS market share to some extent, it will also allow a wider price bracket, from 300h versions to TTV6 F version. This also means Lexus does not need a TTV8. How sure are we it is coming? The long rumored new BMW 4.0l V8 is still not out with the new M8, they use the same engine for the third generation.

Agree... I am actually expecting the IS to grow to nearly midsize. It makes sense because LS got huge and ES is the size of the Avalon now (full size). They could make the IS roughly the size of a Camry and it would probably satisfy IS owners and previous GS owners.

Levi

Maybe the next IS will grow in size and be a sportier stylish sedan rather than a compact sedan. VW has the Passat mostly sold as wagon, but they have the Aerton. Peugeot 508 sedan got replaced by something more 'stylish'. The next IS if it grows could replace the GS market share to some extent, it will also allow a wider price bracket, from 300h versions to TTV6 F version. This also means Lexus does not need a TTV8. How sure are we it is coming? The long rumored new BMW 4.0l V8 is still not out with the new M8, they use the same engine for the third generation.

Agree... I am actually expecting the IS to grow to nearly midsize. It makes sense because LS got huge and ES is the size of the Avalon now (full size). They could make the IS roughly the size of a Camry and it would probably satisfy IS owners and previous GS owners.

Levi

Maybe the next IS will grow in size and be a sportier stylish sedan rather than a compact sedan. VW has the Passat mostly sold as wagon, but they have the Aerton. Peugeot 508 sedan got replaced by something more 'stylish'. The next IS if it grows could replace the GS market share to some extent, it will also allow a wider price bracket, from 300h versions to TTV6 F version. This also means Lexus does not need a TTV8. How sure are we it is coming? The long rumored new BMW 4.0l V8 is still not out with the new M8, they use the same engine for the third generation.

Agree... I am actually expecting the IS to grow to nearly midsize. It makes sense because LS got huge and ES is the size of the Avalon now (full size). They could make the IS roughly the size of a Camry and it would probably satisfy IS owners and previous GS owners.

Some context: Ford has announced they're killing all non-SUVs/CUVs/trucks except the Mustang and Fiesta. I think that's going a little too far in on the SUV/CUV craze, but at this point I don't know what could reverse it.

Some context: Ford has announced they're killing all non-SUVs/CUVs/trucks except the Mustang and Fiesta. I think that's going a little too far in on the SUV/CUV craze, but at this point I don't know what could reverse it.

Some context: Ford has announced they're killing all non-SUVs/CUVs/trucks except the Mustang and Fiesta. I think that's going a little too far in on the SUV/CUV craze, but at this point I don't know what could reverse it.

Damn it feels like a wasted effort on the GS F if they're only going to have a GS for this generation.

If Lexus makes an ES F, I will be seriously disappointed in Lexus. The ES is the complete opposite of a performance sedan.

GS at least must become a 4-door coupe, in fact, that might be better because it will help customers differentiate it from the ES as a more performance-oriented vehicle over the ES which is oriented towards families.

Damn it feels like a wasted effort on the GS F if they're only going to have a GS for this generation.

If Lexus makes an ES F, I will be seriously disappointed in Lexus. The ES is the complete opposite of a performance sedan.

GS at least must become a 4-door coupe, in fact, that might be better because it will help customers differentiate it from the ES as a more performance-oriented vehicle over the ES which is oriented towards families.

Damn it feels like a wasted effort on the GS F if they're only going to have a GS for this generation.

If Lexus makes an ES F, I will be seriously disappointed in Lexus. The ES is the complete opposite of a performance sedan.

GS at least must become a 4-door coupe, in fact, that might be better because it will help customers differentiate it from the ES as a more performance-oriented vehicle over the ES which is oriented towards families.

Ian Schmidt

Some context: Ford has announced they're killing all non-SUVs/CUVs/trucks except the Mustang and Fiesta. I think that's going a little too far in on the SUV/CUV craze, but at this point I don't know what could reverse it.

Gas prices keep going up... in some parts of the country, they're already around $4 per gallon. It'll be interesting to see how consumers respond to prices if they stay at this level.

I think even Atlanta is projected to be at ~$3 a gallon within the next few weeks, up from $2.60 now.

Ian Schmidt

Some context: Ford has announced they're killing all non-SUVs/CUVs/trucks except the Mustang and Fiesta. I think that's going a little too far in on the SUV/CUV craze, but at this point I don't know what could reverse it.

Gas prices keep going up... in some parts of the country, they're already around $4 per gallon. It'll be interesting to see how consumers respond to prices if they stay at this level.

I think even Atlanta is projected to be at ~$3 a gallon within the next few weeks, up from $2.60 now.

Ian Schmidt

Some context: Ford has announced they're killing all non-SUVs/CUVs/trucks except the Mustang and Fiesta. I think that's going a little too far in on the SUV/CUV craze, but at this point I don't know what could reverse it.

Gas prices keep going up... in some parts of the country, they're already around $4 per gallon. It'll be interesting to see how consumers respond to prices if they stay at this level.

I think even Atlanta is projected to be at ~$3 a gallon within the next few weeks, up from $2.60 now.

Gecko

Gas prices keep going up... in some parts of the country, they're already around $4 per gallon. It'll be interesting to see how consumers respond to prices if they stay at this level.

I think even Atlanta is projected to be at ~$3 a gallon within the next few weeks, up from $2.60 now.

I just don't think that's gonna be a driver, at least within the Lexus lineup. One thing that sticks out looking at the EPA's fuel economy listings is that for Lexus, different vehicles with the same engine get comparable MPG regardless of body type. So switching from an RX350 to an ES350 or GS350 doesn't actually help you on gas. Going hybrid on the sedan does help, but so does going to the RX 450h. The GX is *maybe* vulnerable here, but if you're really using it to its full BOF extent a sedan isn't an option. And of course if you can afford an LX you aren't sweating gas prices.

Gecko

Gas prices keep going up... in some parts of the country, they're already around $4 per gallon. It'll be interesting to see how consumers respond to prices if they stay at this level.

I think even Atlanta is projected to be at ~$3 a gallon within the next few weeks, up from $2.60 now.

I just don't think that's gonna be a driver, at least within the Lexus lineup. One thing that sticks out looking at the EPA's fuel economy listings is that for Lexus, different vehicles with the same engine get comparable MPG regardless of body type. So switching from an RX350 to an ES350 or GS350 doesn't actually help you on gas. Going hybrid on the sedan does help, but so does going to the RX 450h. The GX is *maybe* vulnerable here, but if you're really using it to its full BOF extent a sedan isn't an option. And of course if you can afford an LX you aren't sweating gas prices.

Gecko

Gas prices keep going up... in some parts of the country, they're already around $4 per gallon. It'll be interesting to see how consumers respond to prices if they stay at this level.

I think even Atlanta is projected to be at ~$3 a gallon within the next few weeks, up from $2.60 now.

I just don't think that's gonna be a driver, at least within the Lexus lineup. One thing that sticks out looking at the EPA's fuel economy listings is that for Lexus, different vehicles with the same engine get comparable MPG regardless of body type. So switching from an RX350 to an ES350 or GS350 doesn't actually help you on gas. Going hybrid on the sedan does help, but so does going to the RX 450h. The GX is *maybe* vulnerable here, but if you're really using it to its full BOF extent a sedan isn't an option. And of course if you can afford an LX you aren't sweating gas prices.

Wow...so does this mean we will never ever see GS again
Or maybe it's infinitely delayed for now? Really hoping for the later

Wow...so does this mean we will never ever see GS again
Or maybe it's infinitely delayed for now? Really hoping for the later

Wow...so does this mean we will never ever see GS again
Or maybe it's infinitely delayed for now? Really hoping for the later

meth.ix

Damn it feels like a wasted effort on the GS F if they're only going to have a GS for this generation.

If Lexus makes an ES F, I will be seriously disappointed in Lexus. The ES is the complete opposite of a performance sedan.

GS at least must become a 4-door coupe, in fact, that might be better because it will help customers differentiate it from the ES as a more performance-oriented vehicle over the ES which is oriented towards families.

Well, current IS also has no IS-F version, GS-F makes up for that.

meth.ix

Damn it feels like a wasted effort on the GS F if they're only going to have a GS for this generation.

If Lexus makes an ES F, I will be seriously disappointed in Lexus. The ES is the complete opposite of a performance sedan.

GS at least must become a 4-door coupe, in fact, that might be better because it will help customers differentiate it from the ES as a more performance-oriented vehicle over the ES which is oriented towards families.

Well, current IS also has no IS-F version, GS-F makes up for that.

meth.ix

Damn it feels like a wasted effort on the GS F if they're only going to have a GS for this generation.

If Lexus makes an ES F, I will be seriously disappointed in Lexus. The ES is the complete opposite of a performance sedan.

GS at least must become a 4-door coupe, in fact, that might be better because it will help customers differentiate it from the ES as a more performance-oriented vehicle over the ES which is oriented towards families.

Well, current IS also has no IS-F version, GS-F makes up for that.

Carmaker1

And it is curtains for the GS indeed. :mad: Despite having brought cancellation rumour to surface in late 2016 straight from Japan, I backtracked upon discussing it some months later with a few parties in spring 2017. Last week, I spoke with a Lexus UK rep who I ran into at a Lexus dealer outside London. He has confirmed for me, it will indeed be solely replaced by the ES. The L10 successor is no longer on schedule. In now reviewing recently updated industry database info for suppliers, some still say the same info and a few state "TBD".

The idea for the UK market, is to offer the new ES as a discount alternative to the G30 5-Series and W213 E-Class, just as the LS was targeted as a discount alternative to the W222 (and upcoming W223 S-Class), that sits between the E-class and S-Class. A new GS will no longer be coming this decade.

This idea works with LS (somewhat), but with the ES, I don't know about that at all. It is not convincing to me and a terribly cynical marketing exercise.

As for the next IS sedan, he has seen that car and it is roughly 2 years away (UK market). The RC might be absorbed into the 4IS lineup, by 2022. The possibility of forgoing the entry level luxury 2-door market was not answered directly by him, as product planning hasn't progressed to that point from what he currently knows.

Regarding the GS, I am very disappointed, after all this back and forth the past year. I want know why the individuals who confirmed 300B was coming last spring (to me privately), got their internal info from and how they missed any internal changes along the way. Especially if they attended internal showcases or had certain responsibilities, which provides privileged access.

And for those suggesting it will become a crossover, well...uhm...no it won't. :confused: Anything that uses the current nomenclature clearly will not bear the name GS, if anything other than a sedan. GX is already taken up, for the next 5 years at minimum, and GC =/= GS. GX will be updated heavily next year.

A 4-door, 4-seater sports car could bear the name GS though (just not next year at this point), but how do they justify the application of GS for a "coupe" model? Simply put, if the GS is dead as a 4-door sedan, it is simply GONE. A crossover will never be a GS, particularly when again, a nameplate factors in. The LF-1 under Project 650B will utilize flagship nomenclature and cannot use "S" in its naming. LX SportCross makes more sense. Mid-range crossover will clash with RX and NX and I don't see them doing such a model anyway, outside of a flagship model a la LF-1.

Unless this car is still being developed so much on the low as an extremely niche product (like Ford GT), I can't understand why a new GS-F was ongoing some months ago?:confused:

Stomach churns reading this....

I would be shocked Akio approved no GS, replace with ES and no way there will be a ES F. It seems like something he would protest.

Something is up. That would leave only the RC F as the only F product. And Lexus is Racing and developing F. Obviously the F marque cannot survive with one product which is now older.

Could this possibly happen
Next IS moves up, IS F offered
New sedan slotted below IS, CT (note Benz is bringing an A class to the states, they already have the CLA)
RC F continues (I'm hearing there is significant investment going into the RC F still)
LS F/LC F
GS brought back???

And I find it really just sad that the amazing name SC (a marketing dream) is not used anymore and the awesome name GS might be gone too. Two just amazing names for a luxury vehicle.

I hate to be "that guy" but Mercedes just released an E53 AMG with 429hp. They have the maniacal E63 already.

BMW still offers the 456hp V-8 550 here which does 0-60 much faster than the GS F (3.9 seconds) with AWD. . Now they have the maniacal 600hp M5.

It seems the new BMW M8501 (not a full M) will get a 530hp engine.